WhatsApp group hijacked
Hello guys,
here is the context:
It's a WhatsApp group of 5 friends that I created to play a certain board game. R. is in it. He likes me but has been social climbing on me quite a few times now. About once every time we see each other. He's a very power aware and charming guy. He's been overstepping my boundaries quite a few times by wearing my stuff, among other things.
For instance at his birthday recently, we were disguised and I had a redhead wig. I left it for a short time and I see later on that he's wearing it. As he's turning his back to me while he's cooking, I go and swiftly take it back and put it back on. Later on as we made eye-contact, I eyebrow-flashed him (friendly signal) to rebuild rapport.
Several times he took my jacket to wear it and I had to ask it back. So kind of: "I can take your stuff without asking you". You know what kind of stuff.
Here is the exchange in the WhatsApp group:
Him: Hello friends, I'm hijacking this group to propose you a board game night this week-end if people are motivated [...]
To me, he was stepping on my territory (this group) to propose another activity that the group was not intended for. He's well aware of it ("I'm hijacking"). So I had to signal I was aware of it and not being ok with it while not appearing butthurt or oversensitive to the other group members. I was not. However, I felt he was stepping on my toes.
I usually answer last to his messages because there's a kind of competition for the friend's group to invite them to such and such events (I organize some he organises some). This time I decided to answer first. Because I already had organized something last week-end and it was in my interest for me so people don't get bored with me always organising things (machiavellian thinking). The other reason was to take the little leadership left (first follower) and choose the day that worked for me (machiavellian).
In the message above he also did some self-promotion we offered him a paragliding flight and he said: "maybe my next favourite sport?" implying that he's a sporty guy (he is) and it was a way to self-promote.
Me: Ok for me next Saturday, pirate! 😉
- Short message: low investment.
- I agree: collaborative
- Pirate: expand on the thread he's hijacking and letting him know I'm aware of what is happening
- 😉 : to build back rapport and soften the blow (he's also a guy who calls me "pepito" and all kinds of names in text messages)
Me (after messages from other people): 630pm is perfect! See you next Saturday!
Him (with a few messages before): @johnfreeman if you have other ideas or desires for other games they are welcome
Me: Saboteur!!!
Me: it must be killer at 8 people
Me: BGG (Boardgamegeek.com) advises it for 7-8 players
That's when I realized I did something wrong. He took leadership by stepping into my group and basically tasked me. I was not aware of it but this is what he did. I interpreted it as him building back good will but I think I was wrong.
Do you guys have any feed-back on this dynamics?
Thanks!
A proof that he's a game player, later messages from another friend (much higher socio-economic status than R.):
F: Can R. (his GF) come as well?
R.: If she behaves
F.: She behaves very well (crazy smiley face with tongue out)
R.: Well, then it's ok
F.: Cool
He was offered the opportunity to be generous and warm (he could have answered: "Yes of course! She's always welcome.")
But he chose to play a power move on him, her and us.
On him: Your GF has to respond to my criteria to be good enough to come to my place (judge role)
On her: she's not someone I deem of high quality
On us: I am the chooser, I am in Power (which he is but it felt overly dominant)
So it's social climbing. Effective, but low quality behaviour.
He did not use any wink or smiley face to soften the power dynamics which makes him look petty.
Hi John,
my take is that the continuous boundary violations by this guy originally piled up and possibly produced an (unconscious) effect on you: you tried to rebuild rapport with a person who in my opinion is a frenemy, because he is relentessly trying to see how far he can push you. But now you are seeing him for who he really is.
I would draw boundaries in a more assertive way, both in person and on the chat. I would go meta or in any case surface him. For example, next time he wears something of yours, you could say:
You: I tried to make you understand many times that getting my things without asking is very impolite, so now I will start to call you out on it in front of everyone. And please give me back my jacket immediately. (smile)
On the group:
Him: Hello friends, I'm hijacking this group to propose you a board game night this week-end if people are motivated [...]
You: Awww, unfortunately X, this group does not accept hijackers, especially hijackers who try to suggest that we are a lazy unmotivated bunch. 🙂
It seems that your behavior so far has gone in the direction he wanted, and that in my opinion strongly depotentiates whichever words you used to respond. It is impossible to draw a boundary while complying with a manipulative request at the same time, because the manipulator will always think he "won", and will be inclined to do more.
Personally I would also, if possible, try to fade this guy away. If you show to the group what he is really doing, it is possible the group will decide to ostracize him.
A proof that he's a game player, later messages from another friend (much higher socio-economic status than R.):
F: Can R. (his GF) come as well?
R.: If she behaves
F.: She behaves very well (crazy smiley face with tongue out)
R.: Well, then it's ok
F: Cool
My first reaction to seeing that this person 'R' talked like that is "WTF is wrong with this guy".
F should have turned it on Read by saying "As long you won't harass her she is fine".
Or maybe go strong and say
"Don't ever talk like this to me or anyone ever again"
and then announce that he was disappointed with R's behaviour and will not attend this time.
As far as his 'hijacking message' goes
Him: Hello friends, I'm hijacking this group to propose you a board game night this week-end if people are motivated [...]
One of the responses you can use is.
You - For that you have to make sure the board game idea of yours is interesting enough also hope that we are free that day. Good luck on your sales pitch. 🙂
Based on all the interactions you had written about this guy, he seems to have a "Drill sergeant" Or "control freak" type of persona.
It's best to keep him away and have a cold demeanor with him. after breaking rapport avoid any rapport building move. It is a high chance he takes it as weakness on your part and can always make you look try hard.
As or the group activities it's better to invite him less and less until he is ostracized. For now if possible a way to go about this is you and "F(the person who he put down as mentioned in the post)" hang out and maybe bring up the topic of how he acted towards him to show how worse of a game player 'R' is.
These are my opinions. What are your thoughts?
I agree he's a game player.
But I feel you're letting him drag you down to turkey level by playing games back.
On the "hijacking", if that was the only group, then he had no other option but to use that group.
So a non-reactive thought pattern would be "if what he proposes is solid, then we can do it" (and that's besides the Machiavellian ones you went through, which are good: one can be both Machiavellian, without letting himself be dragged down to turkey scrapping).
So from my perspective, no "saboteur", no "pirate" and definitely no winks.
They don't rebuild rapport, they're the ultimate enjoy for covert power moves.
On taking and wearing things, I'd also have avoided surreptitiously taking the wig back.
It was OK to take it back, but then better to say "hey mate, looks great on you, taking it back now if you don't mind".
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Also, about playing games back:
Keep in mind that playing with the turkey means feeding the turkey.
You confirm the dynamic, sub-communicate you're at the same level, that you're also into playing the same game, and invite more to come.
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Quote from Bel on February 11, 2022, 12:10 pmHi John,
my take is that the continuous boundary violations by this guy originally piled up and possibly produced an (unconscious) effect on you: you tried to rebuild rapport with a person who in my opinion is a frenemy, because he is relentessly trying to see how far he can push you. But now you are seeing him for who he really is.
I agree. I'm aware he's a frenemy.
I would draw boundaries in a more assertive way, both in person and on the chat. I would go meta or in any case surface him.
Good point.
It seems that your behavior so far has gone in the direction he wanted, and that in my opinion strongly depotentiates whichever words you used to respond.
True.
It is impossible to draw a boundary while complying with a manipulative request at the same time, because the manipulator will always think he "won", and will be inclined to do more.
This should be in PU.
Personally I would also, if possible, try to fade this guy away. If you show to the group what he is really doing, it is possible the group will decide to ostracize him.
Unfortunately, this is not going to cut it. He's flatmate with one of my best friends JB who's high-quality (and not a game player). I thought R. was going to move out because he had trouble sleeping in the house (insomnia). But R. cancelled his plans. R. is quite popular among the group. So this is unfortunately a no-no. And you guess what: of course R. is buddy-buddy with A. (yep). So I think people would not understand if I would try to mount anything against R. Even covertly. I would start to get a "divider" tag on my forehead. He's not so much of an asshole as A. So I'll have to play this one smooth. I can minimize contact with him but I cannot let him understand what I know of him. I cannot fade him out as he's well embedded in the group. As I said he's quite popular.
Quote from Growfast on February 11, 2022, 12:53 pmMy first reaction to seeing that this person 'R' talked like that is "WTF is wrong with this guy".
I know, right? We can also see that he can play this game because F. allows him to because he was not power-aware or socially astute enough (I was not as well).
"Don't ever talk like this to me or anyone ever again"
I don't know if it's a cultural thing (I don't know what country are you from/living in) but where I live this is a no-no to speak like this in such circumstances. You can say this only if you've been openly insulted in my cultural context.
Based on all the interactions you had written about this guy, he seems to have a "Drill sergeant" Or "control freak" type of persona.
He's quite manipulative but very smooth, charming and warm. So he goes very much under the radar.
It's best to keep him away and have a cold demeanor with him. after breaking rapport avoid any rapport building move. It is a high chance he takes it as weakness on your part and can always make you look try hard.
That's a good point. My strategy is to be warm and ask him how are things and take interest in him but be emotionally distant if you see what I mean. Warm means expressing warmth but inside being detached.
As or the group activities it's better to invite him less and less until he is ostracized. For now if possible a way to go about this is you and "F(the person who he put down as mentioned in the post)" hang out and maybe bring up the topic of how he acted towards him to show how worse of a game player 'R' is.
These are my opinions. What are your thoughts?
As I said to Bel, it's quite challenging to ostracize him. I would not dare do it. I don't have the power to pull it off nor the leverage. So I won't try. Since I organize activities where the number of people are limited (board games, escape games), I will invite him last. And now that people are inviting their GF, it will be easier to do. I will still have to invite him from now and then because otherwise it will look weird to the other friends. So I'll have to play pretend. I'll have a post about that soon.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 11, 2022, 9:10 pmI agree he's a game player.
But I feel you're letting him drag you down to turkey level by playing games back.
True.
On the "hijacking", if that was the only group, then he had no other option but to use that group.
True.
So a non-reactive thought pattern would be "if what he proposes is solid, then we can do it" (and that's besides the Machiavellian ones you went through, which are good: one can be both Machiavellian, without letting himself be dragged down to turkey scrapping).
Good one.
So from my perspective, no "saboteur", no "pirate" and definitely no winks.
They don't rebuild rapport, they're the ultimate enjoy for covert power moves.
I was wondering if my answer could be considered covert-aggressive. I think it would qualify as covert-aggressive.
On taking and wearing things, I'd also have avoided surreptitiously taking the wig back.
It was OK to take it back, but then better to say "hey mate, looks great on you, taking it back now if you don't mind".
True, I entered the frame of "we're in competition" that he set.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 11, 2022, 9:12 pmAlso, about playing games back:
Keep in mind that playing with the turkey means feeding the turkey.
You confirm the dynamic, sub-communicate you're at the same level, that you're also into playing the same game, and invite more to come.
This inspired me the Eagle mentality post. What would an eagle say?
"My inner Eagle" would say after taking in your feed-back:
Me: It seems like a good idea. Does Saturday work for you guys?