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When is "talking about yourself" selfish/inappropiate?
Cheers guys,
I've realised a common habit I have, specially here, which is using personal anecdotes as "examples" to talk about the topic of the conversation, although it's very likely there's an ego/status inflating component too, since that anecdote can be used to enhance your image by framing the speaker in a positive way, or simply because everyone likes to talk about themselves, a.k.a: stealing the spotlight.
Redirecting the conversation towards you can be irritating to others and break rapport.
So the question is: if one wants to validate the speaker's point of view as well as talk about a personal anecdote on the topic, with a value adding intention, how could this be done without appearing self absorbed?
This is what I currently have in mind:
- Validate their point of view/thread expand on their point of view, anecdote, story/give a compliment about their story.
- Introduce your experience and the lesson learned if it's related to the topic.
I appreciate the help.
Hi Power Duck,
it's an interesting question, which I also reflected upon many times.
In my opinion wanting to interject with one's own experience as soon as one hears something related is a form of insecurity.
I used to do it all the time.
The issue is NOT that one interjects with his own experience, the issue is that - in the context of one's global demeanor - other people can usually tell it is an insecurity.
So my take would be to refrain from relating in this way until the other person asks. Only if the other person asks about your thought/experiences, you share that you have a personal anecdote.
This is what I would do initially. As you grow, there will come a moment when you won't need to share, but may do so anyways. And I surmise it is going to be perceived as a value adding move, at that point.
Great question indeed!
this is where power dynamics overlaps with general social skills -and would be cool one day to have one course specifically general social skills/intelligence-.
This follows the "law of optimum balance" and of course, it's also situational.
Some dating and social skills teachers say to always talk about others, but that's too much -especially with more power aware folks-.
BUT...
It's certainly possible, easy, and common to overdo the "redirection towards the self".
I'd be curious to hear from Bel why he thinks it's related to insecurity (because people seek reassurance?).
Personally, as of now, albeit I see some use cases for insecurity, I'm thinking that more common reasons include social intelligence, low empathy, misapplied dominance, selfishness, taker behavior (trying to get more advice or reassurance).
But whatever the reason, let's think of effects.
Yes, it does break rapport.
Even more, it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to develop intimacy and truly good relationships.
And, albeit exceptions always apply, it's also bad for your status -especially among higher-quality people, and especially when people smell the insecurity as the reason behind it-.
Quote from Bel on September 16, 2023, 6:19 pmHi Power Duck,
it's an interesting question, which I also reflected upon many times.
In my opinion wanting to interject with one's own experience as soon as one hears something related is a form of insecurity.
I used to do it all the time.
The issue is NOT that one interjects with his own experience, the issue is that - in the context of one's global demeanor - other people can usually tell it is an insecurity.
So my take would be to refrain from relating in this way until the other person asks. Only if the other person asks about your thought/experiences, you share that you have a personal anecdote.
This is what I would do initially. As you grow, there will come a moment when you won't need to share, but may do so anyways. And I surmise it is going to be perceived as a value adding move, at that point.
Thanks Bel.
I think your advice is pretty good, avoid talking about yourself if the other person didn't directly ask you.
About insecurity, in my case outside of the forum I talk about myself when I want to show off (subconsciously). For example if I want to brag about how knowledgeable I am about psychology I relate the subject we are talking about to psychology and "pull" teacher frames. Working on it.
(Just realized I started talking about myself, what an irony, will leave it there anyway)
I would say that the insecurity comes from a craving of acceptance/status, one attempts to get it with:
- Teacher frames.
- Covert bragging.
- Stealing the spotlight to get attention.
But you probably know better so I'm curious to know. Could you share your thoughts/experience about it?
Cheers.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 16, 2023, 8:12 pmGreat question indeed!
this is where power dynamics overlaps with general social skills -and would be cool one day to have one course specifically general social skills/intelligence-.
This follows the "law of optimum balance" and of course, it's also situational.
Some dating and social skills teachers say to always talk about others, but that's too much -especially with more power aware folks-.
BUT...
It's certainly possible, easy, and common to overdo the "redirection towards the self".
I'd be curious to hear from Bel why he thinks it's related to insecurity (because people seek reassurance?).
Personally, as of now, albeit I see some use cases for insecurity, I'm thinking that more common reasons include social intelligence, low empathy, misapplied dominance, selfishness, taker behavior (trying to get more advice or reassurance).
But whatever the reason, let's think of effects.
Yes, it does break rapport.
Even more, it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to develop intimacy and truly good relationships.
And, albeit exceptions always apply, it's also bad for your status -especially among higher-quality people, and especially when people smell the insecurity as the reason behind it-.
Thanks Lucio.
I agree about talking too much about the other person possibly backfiring.
About the rest I agree with pretty much everything.
Cheers
Quote from Power Duck on September 16, 2023, 8:55 pmThanks Bel.I think your advice is pretty good, avoid talking about yourself if the other person didn't directly ask you.
About insecurity, in my case outside of the forum I talk about myself when I want to show off (subconsciously). For example if I want to brag about how knowledgeable I am about psychology I relate the subject we are talking about to psychology and "pull" teacher frames. Working on it.(Just realized I started talking about myself, what an irony, will leave it there anyway)
I would say that the insecurity comes from a craving of acceptance/status, one attempts to get it with:
- Teacher frames.
- Covert bragging.
- Stealing the spotlight to get attention.
But you probably know better so I'm curious to know. Could you share your thoughts/experience about it?
Cheers.
P.S.:
for the record, I think that here it was very appropriate :).
Just to be on the safe side, I'd have added:
For example, in my case...
So the frame is that you are sharing a case study that's relevant to the discussion and that can add value to others (VS "channeling back the self" or stealing the show).
Then, once people generally know that you're not a "me, me, me" type of guy, you can also cut out the "for example" since your reputation does that for you.
I think the main reason for this kind of behavior, in my case, was to "try to find a commonality".
But this, in itself, often derived from me believing that I could not be accepted as I was unless there was some commonality.
I also remember times when I did it to unwittingly establish a teacher frame, and that soured one particular relationship with a (real) friend.
In the end I embraced the teaching of Dale Carnegie, to never mention my experience unless the other person asked for it.
Now it's been some years that I realized it (Dale Carnegie's teaching) was a bit too extreme, and there are cases where talking about one's experience makes sense.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 16, 2023, 9:32 pmQuote from Power Duck on September 16, 2023, 8:55 pmThanks Bel.I think your advice is pretty good, avoid talking about yourself if the other person didn't directly ask you.
About insecurity, in my case outside of the forum I talk about myself when I want to show off (subconsciously). For example if I want to brag about how knowledgeable I am about psychology I relate the subject we are talking about to psychology and "pull" teacher frames. Working on it.(Just realized I started talking about myself, what an irony, will leave it there anyway)
I would say that the insecurity comes from a craving of acceptance/status, one attempts to get it with:
- Teacher frames.
- Covert bragging.
- Stealing the spotlight to get attention.
But you probably know better so I'm curious to know. Could you share your thoughts/experience about it?
Cheers.
P.S.:
for the record, I think that here it was very appropriate :).
Just to be on the safe side, I'd have added:
For example, in my case...
So the frame is that you are sharing a case study that's relevant to the discussion and that can add value to others (VS "channeling back the self" or stealing the show).
Then, once people generally know that you're not a "me, me, me" type of guy, you can also cut out the "for example" since your reputation does that for you.
Yes, I would surmise that in this case Power Duck saying that was appropriate, because this thread was originated from him.
So it only makes sense that he could speak more about the reason underlying his question.
On the other hand, talking about oneself in other people's threads is always to be done with caution.
I suppose the "thread" in this forum can be taken as a metaphor for real life "discourse origination".
Meaning, the focus should be on the experience of whoever originated the real life "thread".
Quote from Bel on September 16, 2023, 9:44 pmYes, I would surmise that in this case Power Duck saying that was appropriate, because this thread was originated from him.So it only makes sense that he could speak more about the reason underlying his question.
On the other hand, talking about oneself in other people's threads is always to be done with caution.
I suppose the "thread" in this forum can be taken as a metaphor for real life "discourse origination".
Meaning, the focus should be on the experience of whoever originated the real life "thread".
That, and beause it was:
- On topic
- On a pending question: I was curious about situations of "when it comes from insecurity", so his sharing is in part an example I asked for
- Value-adding: I was curious to read
The opposite of those above also gives you an idea on when it's not appropriate (off-topic, unrelated, non value-adding).
Quote from Bel on September 16, 2023, 9:37 pmNow it's been some years that I realized it (Dale Carnegie's teaching) was a bit too extreme, and there are cases where talking about one's experience makes sense.
Yeah, I can think of many cases where it's not only appropriate but also works great..
For example, many friends talk is about sharing personal experience.
Or it can fit the story to releate how you'd live his experience differently, for example:
Him: I felt soooo embarrassed
Friend: you felt so embarrassed, why
Him: bro, standing htere, naked
Friend: ahaha yeah, I see, but who cares, you got such a big schlong (joking/laughing)
Friend: ahaha jokes aside, the reason I asked is that the type of guy I am, I wouldn't care at all. I go to sleep naked, walk around the house naked...
See how it's well bridged there.
It's a "channeling to self", but it's very relevant.
And smooth, now the conversation can move forward, and it's also more interesting.
See how it's well bridged there.
It's a "channeling to self", but it's very relevant.
And smooth, now the conversation can move forward, and it's also more interesting.
I find this really really interesting.
It has made me remember about something that came to my mind some time ago: there's an overlap between good frame control skills and good conversational skills.
OFF TOPIC
I also think that in this case the way in which the "channeling to self" is done is a "form" of frame buffet, and redirecting, the friend picks the question to introduce/redirect to a new frame/topic of conversation.
But that's material for another post.
END OFF TOPIC
Cheers.
