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When Should You Keep A Value-Taking Individual Around?
Quoted from Lucio Buffalmano on December 12, 2020, 1:35 pm in this thread
Even if, even if they craved what you got to offer, they'll say "fuck it" just to maintain their power, and honor. And just to avoid giving to someone that they have now branded as "not good enough" of their continued investment.
This is an issue that I struggle with sometimes.
Thanks for bringing this up.
It makes me aware of my tendencies to put people into boxes.
Sometimes someone pulls a value-taking move (covert aggression or manipulation), and I mentally demote that individual.
It is a mental hierarchy of who would add value to my life.
Certainly helpful and intuitive but sometimes too rigid for the given circumstances.
I have too crudely cut contact with some people because they pulled some manipulation.
I cannot seem to find the forum post on cases where you should not assert your boundaries directly with value-taking individuals.
One case is when a value-taking individual has managed to use his value-taking strategy to acquire lots of resources.
If you are interested in his resources, asserting yourself may cut out your access from his resources. (using his for readability, it can be her)
I recalled a value-taking individual introduced Lucio to some good people.
In this sense, a more strategic approach to dealing with these individuals would be wise.
Especially the more powerful ones.
Like how Comey navigated his interactions with Trump.
That being said, in lots of cases, it is easier to cut any manipulative source out of my life completely.
Don't want to constantly have to deal with an irritation in my mind.
Distraction is the antithesis of productivity.
My Thoughts on When To Keep a Value-Taking Individual Around
- Forced Circumstances
You are forced to given the circumstances.
For example, workplace bosses and colleagues in the same project. - You Want Something From That Person
A value-taking individual has resources that you want and aligns with your interests. - Display Fearlessness
Show your enemy that you are not afraid.
Sit next to the person in meetings to show that you are not fearful. - Gaining Intelligence
Gain intel and power by making their friends your friends.
Stay close enough to know what is going on. - Practise Power Dynamics
Always good to practise learning how to deal with assholes.
Practising means you can do this at your own accord - As a Duty to Society to Give Value-Taking Individuals Less Power
Give back to society by getting rid of value-taking individuals like bad bosses.
To achieve this, sometimes you need to be close enough to flank the person or outgun him. - The person may add value in the future
Sometimes value-taking behaviour is a result of poor social skills and lack of assertiveness.
You could even take a leadership role to coach people to be more value-adding though not always possible.
This does not apply to Machevallian individuals.
For Machvallian individuals, look at all the other points.
Keen to hear your thoughts!
Very interesting that part resonated with you as well, Matthew! I have a tendency to dig in when I see others trying to manipulate me, and I've ruthlessly cut out (and sometimes punished) people who I saw as unworthy and contemptable for pulling such moves. I understand the dilemma - do you value your pride, freedom and peace of mind more, or are you willing to make some sacrifices and play some games to gain what they have (Preferably via a win-win exchange of course)? Both stances (and variations in between) are worthwhile, and appropriate at different times - the question is, what are you more willing to sacrifice?
Me personally, I get the defiant, adamant, 'no second chances' style all too well. Especially in the context of women playing value-taking games; I come with the attitude that I'd rather be single, growing and focused on my purpose than chase someone or accommodate petty, childish games. I've certainly retaliated more than a few times in cases of overt disrespect and humiliation, often disproportionately, and I've left my marks. And I've lost more than a few opportunities and women doing so as well. Did I have regrets? Yes. Would I do it again? You bet.
With that said, if you're willing to bite the bullet because you see a profitable long-term outcome, all seven reasons sound viable. 1 is great for learning power dynamics; necessity breeds creativity. 2 is understandable, but better to secure needs in other ways or have less needs to avoid entrapment. 3 is a great way to train Frame, gain status and find your weaknesses. 4 can be useful, but birds of a feather flock together, and you'll want to isolate the value-taker later. 5 is self-evident. 6 is satisfying for its own sake while being prosocial and handy as part of a coup if they've made enemies. And 7 is also prosocial and often leads to allies when they appreciate being shown a better way, especially in a high power and warmth way.
Very interesting topic, and I look forward to hearing more!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I get what you are sharing.
Allow me to reflect upon this topic with greater depth.
While learning from what others have to say.
Wonderful thread, I'll be linking to this one.
Yeah, high-value folks, in general, tend to prouder than the average.
Pride is part of that mix of wanting to succeed and to prove to oneself -or sometimes to someone else- what they're made of.
In good doses, pride is a great thing.
Of course, as for most virtues, it can get too much, or it can sometimes get in the way of effective strategizing -or even in developing good relationships, when you're too aggressive in hitting back / cutting out-.
The thread you're referring to, Matthew, was in John's journal here.
Pride is part of that mix of wanting to succeed and to prove to oneself -or sometimes to someone else- what they're made of.
I do have this issue.
It is important for me to regularly relook at the concept of anti-fragile ego.
If not, I tend to focus too much on the outward external validation sources like money, skills, social capital, etc.
-or even in developing good relationships, when you're too aggressive in hitting back / cutting out-
What I realised is that general value-adding individuals can play value-taking power moves as well.
Myself included.
Maybe we all have dark tendencies that come out from time to time.
So encouraging good behaviour while discouraging bad behaviour is always an ongoing process.
Thanks for the link to John's journal.
so we can say:
Sometimes evil can come from the good, and good from the evil, expect the unexpected.
You come up with the best quotes!
Yeah, I still think Stef in the previous life was a philosopher (and should probably become on in this life, too :).
Does this belong in social life?
There seems to be an overlap.
The objective of dealing with value-taking individuals would lean towards being in the social life section.
But understanding how to navigate your interactions and relationship with them would require power dynamics knowledge.
