Former Community – We Moved
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Bel's thoughts
Hey Bel,
Could be a case of a very direct, no-time-wasting type of guy, who also appreciates people doing the same -just a possibility, you know better in the end-.
Let us know, curious to see if your direct email changed things for good going forward
Sparse reflections:
- Waiters joking when I was with Bella
It's interesting that this dynamic tends to happen only in places I went to before-TPM.
In new places I discovered after that I still go to, this does not happen.
My sticking point was that I did not understand what was going on.
I haven't yet returned to one of those places. I suspect the dynamics will stop without me having to say much now.
It has been my experience that, when one finally gets over a sticking point, aggressions stop without having to do much.
- Doorman's past jokes
There was a similar component of social climbing against me in front of Bella in what my doorman used to do.
All his jokes where either meant to diminish my status in front of Bella, or at demeaning Bella to highlight I was not able to defend her.
That's why the doorman's behavior changed after both: i) I "defended" Bella, and ii) I defended myself.
It's also interesting that, before me checking the doorman's behavior in front of Bella, the doorman tended to joke about her being my "secretary" even when she passed in front of him alone.
The most interesting part is that I had told Bella how to respond, but she did not. She rationalized it under the reasoning that "she didn't want to make an enemy out of the doorman".
In the end, I checked the doorman's idiotic jokes when both Bella and I were in front of him, and he stopped.
I now understand that, most likely, Bella had picked up that the jokes of the doorman were really against me, not her.
And she was probably (unconsciously) looking to see if I could behave like a man, and stop him myself.
- Work video-conference call
Yesterday I basically hosted a video-conference call with 7 people (of whom 5 I had never met) for a work project, upon invitation of one client of mine.
This time everything went smoothly: no aggressions, no challenges to my direction.
I applied everything I learned here. Starting from focusing on high-power and high-warmth, behaving as if I already knew all of them and no introductions or particular salutation were necessary, accepting and aknowledging all bids for emotional connection (starting from "call me by first name", which I reciprocated), considering their points and implementing all of them as much as possible, and totally omitting "presenting or promoting" myself. Power dynamics are enough "promotion".
In the end I concluded by summarizing what I would do and "thanking all". Even though the "thank you all" was out of place in the abstract - as I was the one providing the service - I believe it was clear to everybody that it was a "warmth-thank you".
This confirms that low-level techniques all tend to fall in place when one gets the general frame right. At that point the details matter less.
Another waiter who tries to be dominant
I spoke too soon.
Just came back from a dinner at another place with Bella.
New waiter approached the table and immediately went too dominant for my taste:
Waiter: Do you already know what to order or you want me to come back?
Me: We already know. Please bring us this and this and this. (I deliberately chose to task him to rebalance the interaction)
Bella then tells me, without me having broached the subject, that this waiter was looking at her in passing.
So I immediately thought: I will probably have additional material for TPM tonight...
Dinner comes. We eat and everything goes well. Waiter stays basically away and does not interfere.
Then, I finish my plate, Bella is still eating and the waiter comes, ignoring the fact that Bella was still eating:
Waiter: Dessert?
Me: No, thank you, give us a minute to decide here.
Waiter goes away and Bella finishes eating.
We decide we don't want dessert.
Waiter approaches the table and decides to ramp up the covert conflict.
But this time, I'm fucking ready.
Me: Can you please bring us the bill.
Waiter: Sure.
Me: I have this coupon here on my phone for a free starter.
Waiter: What's the date?
Me: Pardon?
Waiter: The date! (brusquely)
Me: The coupon is valid until ..., as you see (showing him my phone).
Waiter: Let me see! (with a bad tone, begins touching my phone. I immediately think: he is tasking me and touching my phone to show dominance over me in front of Bella)
Me: Here, I'll show you. (self-tasking to rebalance the interaction, I stop him touching my phone and touch it myself)
Waiter: Can I see it!? (brusquely, loudly, including in body language: he got away from my phone and turned directly at my face. Bella was of course near me).
* click on blockquote above to expand
At this point I thought: I am going to fucking demolish this asshole no matter the consequences.
Me: This is my phone. And you may want to start asking and saying things nicely, you know. (stone cold staring at him in the face)
Waiter: (gets back from the table) No, it's just that I need to be sure as you may understand about these coupons... (started justifying himself)
Me: Of course (stone cold, sarcastic tone)
As I finished saying "Of course", the waiter, apparently, was no longer interested in checking the details of my coupon and touching my phone (and, in reality he probably never was: he was just interested in being an asshole).
He gets away, brings back the bill, I pay with a card without looking at him anymore.
He does not say another word and goes away. No thanks or goodbye from either side.
We get up, get out, and Bella tells me (i) that he was an asshole, especially since we were kind all the time, and (ii) that I put him totally in his place.
Mission accomplished!
Thank you so much guys!!!!!!!
I suppose the (covert) aggression/assholeness here was mostly in the sub-communication since the words seem pretty standard to me.
Then, rock on Bel!
Thank you, Lucio!
Yes, he was rude in tone and dominant in body language. Very nasty:
- no "hi, how are you" or any salutation
- did not wait for Bella to finish before asking if we wanted dessert *
- brusque tone, words and body language (like he wanted to make me submit)
- tasking me to let him touch my phone
And the most assholish thing: when he said "Can I see it or not?!" and stared at me in the face, he was looking for me to submit socially to him.
He wanted me to say "of course, here is the phone", in front of Bella.
He was looking to see if I was afraid of escalating conflict.
No fucking chance. This time I immediately thought: if he doesn't back off we'll get to manager level here.
All in all, he was the most assholish waiter I have probably encountered.
* A brief note on this: I find this was also a common way by which these waiters tried to create conflict. Pushing me to decide on how to go on without including Bella.
I see, I see, I had missed the "expand block quote" actually so it wasn't adding up.
Now it does, and makes all sense.
And great catch on recognizing the "mini-showdown" (of waiting for you to submit).
I wasn't there, but from the outside also to me feels it was exactly that.
Nicely done, very happy to read!
Nicely played. I think there might be bit of short guy syndrome in these situations. Waiter is not a high status job. My Mrs says male nurses often like this lecturing patients and other nurses like they are bad doctors.
Wardrobe and clothing choices not only influence self-esteem, but mostly reflect self-esteem
I have been looking around and found several articles on the net that discuss this, and prove that my personal experience is fairly common, and that this is in fact the stronger link between clothes and self-esteem:
Increase in self-efficacy and self-esteem ——> better clothing choices.
The link in the other direction (ie dressing better —> more self-esteem), which is the most discussed one, may be the less important and most transient one.
It is much more likely for a person to adapt clothing to self-esteem than the other way around.
I suspect the reason why members of the opposite sex - or, for that matter, work clients - instinctively judge people based on outer layers of appearance, is because there is an unconscious, difficult-to-fake but always-there link between outer layers and internal ones.
Mind-reading is not attractive nor mature
When I got here on TPM, I tended to make many more assumptions about people’s internal motives and reasoning than I do now.
I remember several instances where Lucio told me “it may be, but you can’t assume that’s the reason of the other person”.
Later, I understood I was often, in fact, wrong in my interpretation.
Also: in some instances where I thought I was power protecting, I was in fact simply projecting personal insecurities on others - who resented it.
Now, I realize there is a higher-level principle at play here:
Inferring internal motives from actions (with exceptions, of course), or - worst of all - in the absence of external cues, is a marker of immaturity
It is one of the honest signals by which other people (including work clients and members of the opposite sex) instinctively and unconsciously assess the maturity and “attractiveness” of others.
An absence of biases of this sort is more mature and more attractive. Asking, or even just showing in action that one does not assume to know, is mature and attractive.
On the other hand, presuming to know others’ motives, and showing it - even if true, with limited exceptions - is a marker of immaturity and absence of mental soundness.
It may be, in fact, a form of projection - whereby people who are not well tend to diffuse the pain and assume internal control by interpreting others’ actions (or lack thereof) as they would if they themselves did the same.
Great point on the self-esteem, Bel.
And on this one:
Quote from Bel on April 24, 2023, 2:14 pm...
It's also about status and respect from people who think logically.
Since those people tend to rise further in life, it's good when you can vibe / connect / gain their respect.
Exceptions always apply of course and in some situations, it's even better to infer (ie.: "you at the bar with "not-so-bright" folks when the goal is just to vibe and have a good time"; "a populist politician seeking to gain votes from the masses of disenfranchised", etc.).
But it's always superior to at least be able to also not-infer and generally think logically, so you can be effective in any crowd.
