Former Community – We Moved

🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.

ForumPublic Forum: DatingCovertly asking for a deeper rela …

Please or Register to create posts and topics.

Covertly asking for a deeper relationship and let the male side chase

#1 · November 10, 2021, 7:16 pm

Quote from MMC on November 10, 2021, 7:16 pm
I observe that, in a casual relationship, girls occasionally want to push the relationship to a deeper level, i.e. having sex or deeper relationship. However, they often do this covertly, and let the male side initiate, let the male chase, or let the male take the lead.
Examples are like these:
Example 1:
Female: If I will also find a good job in your city, do you think we will have a good result?
Male: Sweetie what do you mean by "good result"? Do you mean a serious relationship and then getting married.
Female: Nah I am not that into getting married. I am not asking you for a serous relationship. If you are into something serious you can try to propose that.
Example 2 (Text msg):
Female: By doing XYZ, I don't think you are serious enough.
Male: Ok dear if you want a serious relationship we can talk about it.
Female: No no no. It was not about a serious relationship, it was all about respect. I don't think you were respecting me. (Withdrawing her neediness)
If I understand TPM correctly, the dynamics of the first and second examples go like this: the female is asking for something serious, but she wants the male to take the lead or chase her. I usually covertly express that "I don't want to chase anyone"; then some girls will just end the dating relationship. I don't want to chase (or take the lead) because I thought this might make me give away my power.
Example 3:
Male: I prefer something casual and light.
Female: You don't know your own heart. I think you are confused about your life and you don't have a clear life purpose.
Male: Could you please clearly state your needs? What I did wrong?
Female: You know what you did wrong. Stop pretending to be ignorant.
Example 4
Female: What are you doing tonight?
Male: Kind of busy blah blah
Female: Ok I will find some else to hang out.
Male: Oh did you mean that you wanted to come over? If so I might be able to make some time. Let me take a shower and brush my teeth.
Female: Yes you are right. I was trying to ask if you want to come over or if I can come to you. But now I am not that into to see you.
If you have similar experiences, may I ask what is the difference between "chase" and "take the lead", and what is optimal strategy shall I adapt in these examples?
I haven't gone through all materials in dating power dynamics but I think one of the blog post might already covered this post, as this site covered almost all knowledge in dating. Probably it is related to the "chase me more" dynamics. If there is an article on similar topic, please let me know, and I will be very appreciative.
I recently moved to London and recovered my account. Last year I've been helped a lot from the members and leaders of this site. I cannot express how much I appreciate you.

I observe that, in a casual relationship, girls occasionally want to push the relationship to a deeper level, i.e. having sex or deeper relationship. However, they often do this covertly, and let the male side initiate, let the male chase, or let the male take the lead.

Examples are like these:

Example 1:

Female: If I will also find a good job in your city, do you think we will have a good result?
Male: Sweetie what do you mean by "good result"? Do you mean a serious relationship and then getting married.
Female: Nah I am not that into getting married. I am not asking you for a serous relationship. If you are into something serious you can try to propose that.

Example 2 (Text msg):

Female: By doing XYZ, I don't think you are serious enough.
Male: Ok dear if you want a serious relationship we can talk about it.
Female: No no no. It was not about a serious relationship, it was all about respect. I don't think you were respecting me. (Withdrawing her neediness)

If I understand TPM correctly, the dynamics of the first and second examples go like this: the female is asking for something serious, but she wants the male to take the lead or chase her. I usually covertly express that "I don't want to chase anyone"; then some girls will just end the dating relationship. I don't want to chase (or take the lead) because I thought this might make me give away my power.

Example 3:

Male: I prefer something casual and light.
Female: You don't know your own heart. I think you are confused about your life and you don't have a clear life purpose.
Male: Could you please clearly state your needs? What I did wrong?
Female: You know what you did wrong. Stop pretending to be ignorant.

Example 4

Female: What are you doing tonight?
Male: Kind of busy blah blah
Female: Ok I will find some else to hang out.
Male: Oh did you mean that you wanted to come over? If so I might be able to make some time. Let me take a shower and brush my teeth.
Female: Yes you are right. I was trying to ask if you want to come over or if I can come to you. But now I am not that into to see you.

If you have similar experiences, may I ask what is the difference between "chase" and "take the lead", and what is optimal strategy shall I adapt in these examples?

I haven't gone through all materials in dating power dynamics but I think one of the blog post might already covered this post, as this site covered almost all knowledge in dating. Probably it is related to the "chase me more" dynamics. If there is an article on similar topic, please let me know, and I will be very appreciative.

I recently moved to London and recovered my account. Last year I've been helped a lot from the members and leaders of this site. I cannot express how much I appreciate you.

#2 · November 12, 2021, 9:46 pm

Women like indirect communication as you ve experienced. It gives them deniability. You have to become a student of womanese. You also have to learn how to spark her emotions. Without those two skills your a generic guy aka a commodity wallet and dick Yes most short term relationships have a use by date. Also they are non exclusive. If you're seeing other women remember she has three times the options you do. A woman s problem is she doesn't like most about of her options.

Your responses are too direct essentially shutting the door in her face. You need to leave the door open a bit. E g. I love spending time with you babe and I d like to see where this goes.

Or the philosopher frame. "Everyone wants babies and grow old together. With the right person sure ... Takes me a while to open up that's just me."

Spinning plates is a bit of an art And sometimes they all crash down. Nothing to be concerned about just the nature of the game.

The 3 month rule also plays in

Lucio Buffalmano, Matthew Whitewood and MMC have reacted to this post.

#3 · November 14, 2021, 1:19 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 14, 2021, 1:19 am
Hey MMC,
You're at a place that a good chunk of men wish to be in.
So overall it seems like you're doing well.
To get to the next level, keep on reading.
His behavior attracts power moves
Yes, they are all power moves.
But in several cases, you are calling those power moves on yourself with your questions / statements/ frames.
For example:
Male: Sweetie what do you mean by "good result"? Do you mean a serious relationship and then getting married.
First off "sweetie" might work in your relationship.
But you should be aware of what it does.
And, generally speaking, it creates distance and a power gap.
Distance and power gaps are not usually conducive to the open communication you're asking in the very same breath (and it's very possible she power moved you right after in good part because of that "sweetie").
Also, "sweetie" requires the man to be higher power than her, or it looks try-hard and sort of "alpha male posturing" (but let's not get sidetracked now).
But it's not the main point.
The main point is:
He is answering for her and he's the first to broach the "serious" relationship topic.
It disempowers you because you're the first to mention the "serious" part, and it disempowers her because it takes it too far, into the derisive type of humor (cheap), and frames her as chasing.
Of course, she was forced to dey that frame -and you-.
Many women see the issue of relationships as vitally important, they're careful not to look to "chase-y".
So she was forced to deny the frame of her chasing after marriage -and denying wanting you, as a consequence, terrible frame for you, and for both-.
In this case, the man called power move on himself.
And he started the path towards lose-lose.
He puts her in a difficult position, she is forced to deny him.
The relationship sours, the truth stay hidden, both lose.
Her next reply:
Female: Nah I am not that into getting married. I am not asking you for a serous relationship. If you are into something serious you can try to propose that.
Was a total power move (and probably a nasty power move).
And that required an assertive, direct response.
More Power Needed
And by "power" I mean both personal power, and power awarenes.
Look at this:
Female: You don't know your own heart. I think you are confused about your life and you don't have a clear life purpose.
Male: Could you please clearly state your needs? What I did wrong?
BIG red flag from her.
But his reply is very much out of sync with the dynamics at play.
What she's stating is very manipulative (of the "psychologizing" sort) and aggressive.
Who the hell does she think she is to tell you, how you feel?
That's what you had to address.
You know how you feel.
Don't take that crap of her telling you how you "really" feel.
That needed a direct, assertive reply.
Instead he first opens a new thread, and then defends with "what I did wrong".
Think about that frame: the frame is that you did something wrong.
And now you give her the power to tell you what you did wrong -or what's wrong with you, as she had already gone down that road-.
At best, an argument that didn't need to happen will ensue (lose-lose).
At worst, she steamrolls you with "what's wrong with you" (win-lose, but actually also lose-lose in the end).
Better Mindsets
Continued...

Hey MMC,

You're at a place that a good chunk of men wish to be in.

So overall it seems like you're doing well.

To get to the next level, keep on reading.

His behavior attracts power moves

Yes, they are all power moves.

But in several cases, you are calling those power moves on yourself with your questions / statements/ frames.

For example:

Male: Sweetie what do you mean by "good result"? Do you mean a serious relationship and then getting married.

First off "sweetie" might work in your relationship.

But you should be aware of what it does.

And, generally speaking, it creates distance and a power gap.
Distance and power gaps are not usually conducive to the open communication you're asking in the very same breath (and it's very possible she power moved you right after in good part because of that "sweetie").
Also, "sweetie" requires the man to be higher power than her, or it looks try-hard and sort of "alpha male posturing" (but let's not get sidetracked now).

But it's not the main point.

The main point is:

He is answering for her and he's the first to broach the "serious" relationship topic.

It disempowers you because you're the first to mention the "serious" part, and it disempowers her because it takes it too far, into the derisive type of humor (cheap), and frames her as chasing.

Of course, she was forced to dey that frame -and you-.

Many women see the issue of relationships as vitally important, they're careful not to look to "chase-y".
So she was forced to deny the frame of her chasing after marriage -and denying wanting you, as a consequence, terrible frame for you, and for both-.

In this case, the man called power move on himself.
And he started the path towards lose-lose.
He puts her in a difficult position, she is forced to deny him.

The relationship sours, the truth stay hidden, both lose.

Her next reply:

Female: Nah I am not that into getting married. I am not asking you for a serous relationship. If you are into something serious you can try to propose that.

Was a total power move (and probably a nasty power move).

And that required an assertive, direct response.

More Power Needed

And by "power" I mean both personal power, and power awarenes.

Look at this:

Female: You don't know your own heart. I think you are confused about your life and you don't have a clear life purpose.
Male: Could you please clearly state your needs? What I did wrong?

BIG red flag from her.

But his reply is very much out of sync with the dynamics at play.

What she's stating is very manipulative (of the "psychologizing" sort) and aggressive.

Who the hell does she think she is to tell you, how you feel?

That's what you had to address.

You know how you feel.
Don't take that crap of her telling you how you "really" feel.

That needed a direct, assertive reply.
Instead he first opens a new thread, and then defends with "what I did wrong".

Think about that frame: the frame is that you did something wrong.
And now you give her the power to tell you what you did wrong -or what's wrong with you, as she had already gone down that road-.

At best, an argument that didn't need to happen will ensue (lose-lose).
At worst, she steamrolls you with "what's wrong with you" (win-lose, but actually also lose-lose in the end).

Better Mindsets

Continued...

MMC has reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.

#4 · November 14, 2021, 1:28 am

Becoming The Eagle

Overall, to me, it seems a case that is less about micro-level (words and techniques) and more about macro-level.

Macro-level is the foundation.

It's:

mindsets (for example "I deserve, demand, and can achieve honest communication in my relationships)
approaches to interpersonal relationships (effectively seeking win-win, rather than lose-lose battles)
general power-dynamics awareness (spotting those manipulation, avoiding disempowering your partners)
general power competency (handling the manipulation well, leading towards win-win... Or towards the door).

We'd call that "striving towards eagle-level" here.

The micro certainly helps a lot to eventually also understand and internalize the macro -and become the macro-.

But learning the macro first -or at least alongside the micro- might be a more effective approach.

That would be the various "start here" pages, the foundational articles, and of course PU.

So I'd recommend addressing the higher level now.

MMC and leaderoffun have reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.

#5 · June 20, 2022, 5:37 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 14, 2021, 1:28 am
Becoming The Eagle
Overall, to me, it seems a case that is less about micro-level (words and techniques) and more about macro-level.
Macro-level is the foundation.
It's:
mindsets (for example "I deserve, demand, and can achieve honest communication in my relationships)
approaches to interpersonal relationships (effectively seeking win-win, rather than lose-lose battles)
general power-dynamics awareness (spotting those manipulation, avoiding disempowering your partners)
general power competency (handling the manipulation well, leading towards win-win... Or towards the door).
We'd call that "striving towards eagle-level" here.
The micro certainly helps a lot to eventually also understand and internalize the macro -and become the macro-.
But learning the macro first -or at least alongside the micro- might be a more effective approach.
That would be the various "start here" pages, the foundational articles, and of course PU.
So I'd recommend addressing the higher level now.

Absolutely valueless suggestions. All of the four points you mentioned actually apply to me.

I should've have more transparent and honest communicates with everyone in my life; occasionally I am too shy/fragile to say what I truly mean.
I am still learning the "win-win" collaborative frame. I do find myself imposing one-upping and competitive frames too often.
Some times I cannot clearly identify powermoves.
Even if I correctly identified some powermoves, I was not quick enough to come-up-with a sharp response.

Very happy to see that this site is running better and better. I think this irreplaceable site exposes some of the most guarded secrets in social dynamics. Truly appreciate you again and truly apology that I have little time for this site due to demanding works; but I did learn more social dynamics from this site than from my job.