Defending against the children/babying frame
Hello,
Context: a (little bit older) female nurse comes to take her evening shift at work on 2 separate days. She sees us resident already at work and:
Day 1
- Me:"how are you?" (now I know it's a power move, because I'm checking on her and this frames me as the leader who makes sure things are going well for everybody).
- Her: "I'm good. Are you behaving with the girls?" (in french: "t'es sage avec les filles?"). By "girls" she's implying my female colleagues.
- Me: "I'm always behaving, it's the girls who are misbehaving as always"
Analysis: Not a good move from me, I played in her frame.
Day 2
- Her: "Look how they are behaving well" while looking at us like a parent proud her children are playing by themselves.
- Us: No reply, continue to work.
Analysis: not a good move, we let her frame us as children.
How do you defend against a parent/child frame?
At my current skill level, I understand it's a judge frame and that I could:
- Deny the frame: how?
- Reframe us as being professionals and working: "someone has to do the job around here" : it might be too agressive as it attacks directly her as a professional at work.
Any other suggestions/corrections?
Hey John,
Ehehe, I had to smile at that nurse's games.
It definitely sounds like she enjoys playing power moves.
Day 1
It's a power move, yes.
But not as bad as you might think.
In a way, it's acknowledging your masculinity.
It's as if she was saying "you're not taking advantage of these girls, are you", which also implies you do have the power of doing so.
It's more a power move towards the other "girls", which she addresses in a rather diminutive tone. But she is placing you above them though (and, depending on her general tone and mannerism, she might place herself above them all, though).
You can see a similar approach in a video I recently published where two alpha females battle it out:
Jane: If you can send "one of the girls"...
How you answer depends on the type of relationship you want to have.
If you want to treat her more like an equal, then you could have laughed and played along with the joke. That would have communicated "me and you, we are above these other girls".
If you want to place yourself above her, then you shouldn't entertain her jokes too much. Just a slight smile, then back to business.
Day 2
Not sure I'd classify this as a typical judge frame.
This is more of a babying frame, like you correctly pointed out in the topic.
But, beyond the exact categorization, yes, it's a power move that seeks to place her above and you below.
However, I think that not replying was the right choice.
You could have added some nonverbal like corrugating your eyebrows as if to say "what kind of retarded game is this idiot playing".
Or you could have gone meta with humor, for example:
John: (looking at another colleague, pointing towards the nurse) Jane loves to pretend she's the mother hen around here
And then, option:
Jane, cut it out
Good stuff. Thanks a lot!
Yeah, I watched the video some time ago. Very good stuff. I'm taking the opportunity to tell you that I think your videos are great and that I'm looking forward to more in case you're going to do more.
Yes, the non-verbal of displaying content is something I have yet to practice. I removed it of my body language due to my annoyance from some people rolling their eyes at almost everyone and everything. But it can be quite useful. I'm taking note of it.
I do think it's great to have different levels of reply to be able to escalate or soften the blow.
Thanks again!
Absolutely, John, do get those nonverbals and facial expressions in your toolset.
Facial expressions are super powerful, both in group situations and, even more, in 1:1.
And they obey the law of social effort, because you can communicate the exact same things you would have said with words, but without even expending a single word.
Also they will make you more "human" in a good and positively attractive way.
Take a look at this very old thread:
- Why Slavic men are not very attractive: one of the reasons is that they have zero nonverbals
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on July 21, 2020, 5:46 pmAnd they obey the law of social effort, because you can communicate the exact same things you would have said with words, but without even expending a single word.
Also they will make you more "human" in a good and positively attractive way.
Great arguments. I'm convinced.
I'm going to read the thread, thanks a lot. Makes sense. As Jocko Willink said: "people who show no emotions are robot and people don't want to be led by robots."
Good thread, I agree with your observations. I'm curious about your experiences in slavic countries. Otherwise, here is another example that happened today:
We were discussing who's going to see the patient and there was still 1 hour until doing so.
- Nurse: he just got the treatment (for which we must wait 1 hour), sweeties ("chouchou" in french).
- I reacted, I have to admit and said: thank you, sweety (with a little agression in my voice).
She went away and I'm not sure it was a good move, but she was getting on my nerves. She's pretty but quite dumb. She's really the stereotypical "dumb blonde" and it's annoying as fuck with her annoying voice. I like her eyes and hair but personality and voice: I want to slap her. Hahaha.
John, I wouldn't wanna be that guy.
And by that guy, I mean the bro who always chimes in saying that "she needs a D".
BUT... That guy might be right, sometimes.
And it's a possibility to take into account.
There is often a hidden sexual component in babying frames. Or, sometimes, not so hidden.
It could be the case here that she's flirting, playing a seductive game, or also that she is sexually interested/receptive.
If you want to explore that side, then you should engage with some flirting back, or at least not get angry about it.
If you prefer her to cut it out and keep professional, then you can totally ignore and act distant and professional. And if she doesn't get the message, then you could have a more direct talk about it.
Well, if she's flirting she's very bad at it. I'm not exactly sure what she's doing but it's awkard: neither warm, nor friendly nor funny nor sexy.
But you got a point, it's not a first time I get angry with a girl like that who does not know what she's doing.
OK, then if you're not interested in a sexual way and/or in having a flirtatious relationship, I don't think your reaction was bad in any way.
Actually, it was good.
You repeating her exact same words in an angry tone was a way of communicating "that word and tone are BS... We're working here, please adapt to a professional behavior".
Yes, that's exactly it. I would love to be attracted to her, but she's just too annoying with her voice and behavior.