Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 3, 2021, 11:31 am

It does seem quite challenging to get intuitively.
Let's discuss this further.

Amplifying

"Accepting the turkey's game and playing with it."

Amplifying would be to enhance the person's frame.

Him: You're a genius!

Me: I certainly am! (enthusiasm)

(or) You got that right!

Letting the Turkey Have Its Fun

"Ahhh little turkey playing games. Have fun little turkey."

Here you are pretending to accept the one-down position.
But the sarcasm is overt enough for everyone to realise you're being sarcastic.
You let the person go down his own frame rather than enhance it.
The irony suggests that the frame is ridiculous as well.

I agree that my example can be phrased better.

Him: You're a genius!

Me: Wow, you're asking for a lot. (sarcastic with elongated syllabuses)

Another Example

Amplifying

Him: Maybe you should work on your fashion

Me: I will totally spend 2 hours looking at the mirror everyday!

Letting the Turkey Have Its Fun

Him: Maybe you should work on your fashion

Me: Go ahead and wear Gucci! (sarcastic with elongated syllabuses)

Quote from John Freeman on January 3, 2021, 12:19 pm

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 3, 2021, 11:31 am

It does seem quite challenging to get intuitively.
Let's discuss this further.

Amplifying

"Accepting the turkey's game and playing with it."

Amplifying would be to enhance the person's frame.

Him: You're a genius!

Me: I certainly am! (enthusiasm)

(or) You got that right!

I don't think this is an example of amplifying. As in this case, the remark is sarcastic. It formally is but not in the sense that it amplify: "you're dumb". Here it is a formal interpretation of the remark, so it is a reframing: "I'm not dumb, I'm smart".

Letting the Turkey Have Its Fun

"Ahhh little turkey playing games. Have fun little turkey."

Here you are pretending to accept the one-down position.
But the sarcasm is overt enough for everyone to realise you're being sarcastic.
You let the person go down his own frame rather than enhance it.
The irony suggests that the frame is ridiculous as well.

I agree that my example can be phrased better.

Him: You're a genius!

Me: Wow, you're asking for a lot. (sarcastic with elongated syllabuses)

I understand as it is the same as we previously discussed. But I don't think it answers my question.

Another Example

Amplifying

Him: Maybe you should work on your fashion

Me: I will totally spend 2 hours looking at the mirror everyday!

I understand and I'm not sure it is relevant to my question, though. This is more like one-up.

Letting the Turkey Have Its Fun

Him: Maybe you should work on your fashion

Me: Go ahead and wear Gucci! (sarcastic with elongated syllabuses)

Same as above.

I'm not sure how to make my question more clear. Let me know what is not clear in my question please.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 3, 2021, 12:53 pm

Quote from John Freeman on January 3, 2021, 11:08 am

However, this conflicts with what I understood earlier from PU: don't let someone use a disempowering frame on you. Or don't use a disempowering frame on yourself. Or don't amplify a negative thread on yourself.

Because this looks like amplifying on the thread: "you're dumb, I'm smart". To me it's like amplifying a disempowering frame. I understand how JB went meta as I highlighted it earlier in this thread. I kind of understand the difference. However, I don't understand the different use cases and the structure of it. I would understand better with 1 example where it's not good to amplify the thread and 1 example where it's good to amplify the thread. I understand it has a lot to do with how you feel inside, though.

Correct, the general rule stands.

When in doubt, better to go with the general rule.

He did amplify the negative thread, in a way (but not in a highly damaging way, since by making a better joke, he also indirectly showed he was far better than that).

So if JB didn't like A., or if he wanted to compete for social power, he would have better not said that.
But if his position was more like "I don't care about A. pulling cheap power moves, I'm here to have a laugh, and add value", or if he was new in the group, then it was a great reply, since he improved on the joke and added value.

So, yes, it's partially about "how you feel inside", which colors the way you frame the different actions (and which is why the "over-analyzing phase" shouldn't last for ever, or people end up seeing too many power moves), but also about "what's your position VS his position in the social hierarchy" and "what are your goals within that social hierarchy".

Quote from John Freeman on January 3, 2021, 1:02 pm

Thanks, very clear. Got it.

Indeed, JB is not so laid back when he got pissed about the social hierarchy he cares about: its housesharing.

Quote from John Freeman on January 5, 2021, 7:54 am

Based on what you said, I got a great benefit. Now that I have an exit strategy with Canada, I don't care anymore about the social hierarchy I'm in. I'm getting out of the small pond. So I feel way more free at work now. And happier.

Cheers for this idea!

Quote from John Freeman on January 23, 2021, 1:57 pm

I talked today with my hairdresser about social dynamics and value-takers.

Here is his defense against “you’re a genius” (mirror type of defense + going higher):

”There’s a genius sleeping inside of you. Too bad he never woke up”.

Enjoy!

Quote from bsmartin32 on January 13, 2024, 12:25 am

I'm reading through microaggression in PU, and got linked to this "you're a genius" thread. I tried thinking of what I would personally say in this situations if a friend or acquaintance said this to me. What I came up with:

Him: "you're a genius"

Me: (acting genuinely serious) I mean.. genius is typically people over 140 IQ. I would definitely agree that I'm above average intelligence, but genius might be a stretch. Either way... (big smile) thank you!

Since the remark "you're a genius" is so easy to come across as just a joke, it feels a defense is easy to come off as too aggressive . Where if I use humor/sarcasm back, than it actually flips the frame and makes it look like the he complemented me. Especially if I throw in the "genius is typically people over 140 IQ", because them my "highly intelligent self" needs to explain a fact to this "commonly intelligent person". Seems like it would work one-on-one or in person.

I'm curious of others thoughts on this defense?

 

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 13, 2024, 7:51 am

Hey bsmartin32, welcome here (you may want to make an intro post).

In my opinion, it's good... If you're starting out.

If you're starting out, playing the game is a good way to learn better.

Once you're more advance, to me it feels like it's a "ceiling response" -ie.: stopping you to get to the higher level-.
In this case: you're being pulled down to play turkey games.

Again: if you're just starting out, if you're younger, if a lot of your friends play those status games... Go for those sparring sessions.
Just know that eventually you may want to stop playing that game.

If one were to say that, depending on the occasion, I may:

• Ignore
• Shame and fly higher: shake my head with a slightly annoyed/disgusted expression as if to say "that's stupid" and get back to the topic
• Deny and reframe "it's not about being "genius", it's... "
• Confirm: "you (f*cking) bet I am" or even smart-alecky "a  good case could be made that I am"

Quote from Gguwad on January 13, 2024, 1:21 pm

I don't see going meta going well in most situations, only when it's a serious problem and it needs to be solved, or you a type of person that has no time for bs.

A good tactic is not only helping with situation but also deepening your identity and showing others who you are.

It seems to me answering well is not as important, but keeping your identity intact makes it possible so people that you want to be approached by will approach you.

Of course responding strongly in a way that fits you is good, but it's not the only factor, in a situation with an asshole, while you may lose often people see through their own lens what is happening and still dislike you even if you win.

For example if you answer in a serious tone and win even if you assert yourself people will look at you less as a heart of the party even though you may be one and if you reply sarcastically if you an understanding person people who care of understanding may be less inclined to talk with you

And often losing is not as important at the moment, what matters is what's happening over a long period of time, and often, at least in my eyes, even if someone lost I didn't care that much, and often still talked to them if I saw they are similar to me.

So if you are or want to be a playful person, respond in playful manner, if you are serious person who doesn't care, respond in serious manner, if you are chill person, respond is chill manner, in short be calm, choose the way that fits you and focus on using it in the best way.

 

Often you can win even if you lose because you gain people who are like you, and losing is not permanent, you can always think it over and nail it next time.

In such situation going meta could be problematic, because people like making jokes, and maybe you want to make jokes too, you want them to open to you, but you defending strongly may look to others as if you have no chill and therefore those people will rather leave you alone.

So I would say many of those tactics can solve the problem but one should wonder if it's a tactic THEY want to use.