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"Feminized society": is it true men in the West are oppressed?

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If you have read around here, you know I'm not a big fan of Red Pill complaining against women, "female nature", "female hypergamy", or "feminized society".

However, a recent comment on YouTube made me reflect.

A man called "Aeanas Gemini" wrote:

Honestly dude, I don't think you realize why the manosphere criticizes women and praises men.

It's not because the majority thinks men are perfect and women are all evil.
It's because we live in a twisted society where the media at large constantly attacks masculinity, accuses men of terrible things at the drop of a hat, and undermines anything good men have ever achieved.
And dismisses any issues that men disproportionately face.

Conversely society outright ignores when women behave in a horrific way, or worse they find some way to rationalize it.
Look at the case of Heard and Depp, he has had to provide an overwhelming amount of evidence of her guilt before people even considered that he was her victim. Even now some people defend her.

Just because the manosphere focuses on criticizing women it doesn't make them misogynists.
The majority are just trying to redress the imbalance which we call a society.

There are of course exceptions to this, but they are exceptions and not the rule. I think this is something we'll never agree on, but I felt the drive to be honest.

 

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Social_Strategist#1Transitionedselffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I wanted to examine the issue more in depth.

After all, it's true that I probably have a very different background, experience, and cultural sensitivity than many men in the red pill (largely living in Western countries).
For example:

  • I grew up in a period and location where feminism was weak
  • I can't remember oppression or abuse against men growing up, never seen anyone lose their shirt in divorce, or for trumped-up charges, but... 
  • ...I do have direct examples of oppression against women, in my own extended family as well
  • I often live in countries where I don't speak the local language, which somewhat shields me from absorbing media messages
  • I rarely spend much time on the news, and never watch TV, which again shields me against general cultural trends

I do however have personally experienced quite some overt or covert aggression, personal bias, or barely hidden bitterness towards men when in Germany, both from local German women, and other Western women.
Plus, I have met several women with an exaggerated sense of "having to support and cheer other women" for the simple fact of being women.

Maybe that was just a small taste of what many men have to go through in life.

So, again, I'm really curious to hear more opinions on this:

Do you think men are being oppressed, or somewhat antagonized in many Western countries?

 

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KellvoSocial_Strategist#1Transitionedselffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

@ednbr @01ascarlett @amerok (John Freeman), for example, you're all sensible and rational guys. What do you think about this?

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Trader007
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I absolutely agree that in American culture and media, there is a relentless assault on men and masculinity.

As a straight white male, I am routinely discriminated against.  And yet, if I say I'm discriminated against, I sound like a crazy, entitled liar because the prevailing wisdom is some combination of a) it's not possible for me to be discriminated against because I'm a straight white male or b) it's ok to discriminate against me because "my kind" has been in power for long enough, and now it's payback time.

Make no mistake: If I treated women or minorities the way I am treated, I would get in a lot of trouble.

Don't get me wrong.  I do not believe in "being a victim." I do not let the discrimination stop me from succeeding in all areas of life that are important to me.  But it makes it harder.

If a woman is reasonably competent and savvy and works for a larger corporation, it's relatively easy for her to get fast tracked in her career.  And of course if she doesn't get the raises, promotions, etc, that she wants, she can often file a gender discrimination lawsuit and get a large settlement.

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Lucio BuffalmanoTrader007Transitioned
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 13, 2020, 8:02 am

Do you think men are being oppressed, or somewhat antagonized in many Western countries?

I would have to do more research before providing an opinion I can fully stand behind, especially since I don't keep tabs on all of the events of all Western countries, only the one I live in. That being said, I do have a couple of thoughts on this.

This question is a little tricky to answer because my first thought was that this question is similar to asking me, "Do you think kids are being bullied in high school?" Well, only the ones who allow themselves to be. But, let's take a deeper look:

I watched this video not too long ago by Jon Anthony, blogger at masculinedevelopment.com, who makes the claim:

Jon: If the media wanted to give a full perspecitve they would focus on not only toxic masculinity but toxic femininity...but the media doesn't talk about those things. It only talks about toxic masculinity and the answer why seems pretty obvious to me. It might surprise you, but I think it's because the media is trying to create a nation of castrated and emasculated little bitches, pussies, boys in the bodies of men.

I decided to share Jon's point here because he specializes in the development of masculinity and has written numerous books around this topic including 7 Strategies to Develop Your Masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is not a word that was created by the younger generation like the word "simp". It's an actual term in the social sciences that's defined as "traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall". Unfortunately, the idea, concept, and definition of toxic masculinity has been dragged out to where it's now used as a way of labeling men who others deem unworthy of being called a "real man" which, I would say, is a form of oppression or antagonization since it's also an identity-based shame attack toward said men.

Now, the media aspect of Anthony's claim is important because the media holds so much sway over what people choose to believe. As Mark Twain once said, "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." The media has the most power aside from government leaders when it comes to their ability to influence and ultimately, fool people. In this case, fooling people into believing that toxic feminity does not need discussing by rarely, if ever, bringing it up.

This leads to men being "picked on" in the public eye more than women which gives birth to entities like the manosphere feeling the need to even the score by doing some of the "picking" as well.

However, in response to Anthony's claim, I have to ask, "What exactly does the media gain from directing their efforts toward the weakening of men?"

Perhaps ratings and money if the topic continues to remain a trendy subject, but if it becomes a dead conversation, will the media really direct their time and budget toward covering a topic that no one is interested in hearing about? I doubt it.

So, upon watching this video, I deemed this more of a conspiracy theory which is why I feel the need to do more research before providing a full opinion.

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Lucio said: I do however have personally experienced quite some overt or covert aggression, personal bias, or barely hidden bitterness towards men when in Germany, both from local German women, and other Western women.
Plus, I have met several women with an exaggerated sense of "having to support and cheer other women" for the simple fact of being women.

Maybe that was just a small taste of what many men have to go through in life.

So, again, I'm really curious to hear more opinions on this:

Do you think men are being oppressed, or somewhat antagonized in many Western countries?

 

Feminism is more deeply entrenched in western society than most people realize. Unlike today's extreme leftist who are loud and in your face.

The modern day feminist for the most part suppresses it as they know they will be labeled or shunned if they are exposed.  They realize they can get much more out of society by offering their feminine side.

Be assured that their Feminist side is lurking in the background like a virus. Similar to a computer program buried deep in the programming. It's there and still running and able to take over at any time.

 

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Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 13, 2020, 8:07 am

@ednbr @01ascarlett @amerok (John Freeman), for example, you're all sensible and rational guys. What do you think about this?

Do you think men are being oppressed, or somewhat antagonized in many Western countries?

First, thank you for your consideration. Short answer: no. Why?

  1. Victim mentality: whatever the truth of this statement, this is the strongest argument not to bite into the bait of this negative idea.
  2. As you said in your PU course and it has been stated in by other writers: men are not a homogenous group. So this blanket statement by definition is wrong as it is too generalized. "Women are stupid", "men are being opressed" are wrong by definition.

That being said. I think that in environments where resources are abundant (AKA "rich countries"), conditions are favored for the sex who is thriving on stability (women). So I think that in resource-rich environments, the sex who is selecting the other sex for its ability to provide resources (women) has more choice among the individuals able to provide said resources.

That's what I think outside of any cultural consideration. As in "Western": Austria? Australia? Sweden? Canada? Spain? These are all "western" AKA democratic capitalistic countries but they have different cultures regarding mating.

Also in a more stable, resource-rich opportunities, there are lots of opportunities for smart, discerning men ("high-quality men") who will thrive despite the conditions (adaptability).

As a conclusion, I think the truth of this statement is irrelevant as it is too disempowering in my opinion. As you said in another post (loose paraphrase): some people will not like you because of your race, etc. but this should not dictate your actions.

About your experience of female aggression. Yes it exists. Yes, it's true. But as a seduction author said: why do you care about what the unattractive females think and do?

I leave the bitches to the other guys and let them fight with one another. I choose the smart, kind and beautiful women.

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Do you think men are being oppressed, or somewhat antagonized in many Western countries?

This is a tough question to answer. The reason for this is because oppression lies on a spectrum between mild devaluation and total annihilation, and there are an infinite number of gray states in between. These states vary on the personal scale and on the degree of awareness and intensity that they are expressed. But, as a defined group, are men, especially masculine men, generally on the oppression scale? Yes. How far? A tougher question to answer, but I will attempt to pin it down by comparing this to other examples of oppression below:

Kellvo's Scale of Oppression:

(Personal opinion may vary)

0 - No oppression.

10 - Mild oppression; preference for others over target group, some distrust for said group, but with little to no intentionally harmful action (Examples - Early Feminism, more self-improvement based or isolationist Red Pill philosophy, more benign nationalists; many are here in regards to at least one group).

25 - Mild to moderate oppression; some discrimination towards target group, often indirect or covert (neglect, mistreatment, disrespect, etc.). Early signs of dehumanization ('[X] is/are trash'; comparison to animals or objects; always/never statements). General 'Us vs. Them' mentality and win/lose worldview in regards to target group; often consciously or subconsciously considers their group superior compared to the target group (Examples - Most third-wave feminists, many Red Pill men, more extreme nationalists).

50 - Serious oppression; general, intentional devaluation and mistreatment of a target group, but with generally non-lethal ends. Active, consistent dehumanization of target group; supremacist rhetoric becomes common, and severe violence (physical, emotional, financial, reputational, etc.) is considered an option (Examples - SJWs, many deeper areas of the Alt Right; In general, where a group is treated as second-class citizens (but still citizens) or where there is widespread but either sporadic or not very intense oppression).

75 - Widespread, severe and consistent oppression with severe impediment to target group's lifestyle; non-direct extermination (extreme negligence, denial of basic resources, sterilization, etc.), sporadic killings, active and malicious intent towards a target group, generally considered subhuman (Example - Jim Crow Era).

100 - Intentional extermination and/or enslavement of a target group on a mass scale (Example - The Holocaust).

So applying this scale, where are we? This depends on the individual people and the average state of the culture involved. In the United States however, I estimate the average oppression of men to be somewhere between 25 and 50. On the individual level, there are varying perspectives on men I noticed among women - Many I've seen may prefer their own group, but treat me well, especially as long as I show masculine qualities. However, I have noticed quite a few women being actively standoffish, cold, bitter, or otherwise 'odd' as well.

I've noticed a positive correlation between the femininity of a woman and how well she treats men (and people) in general. For example, I noticed no Asian woman giving off covert aggression signs; conversely, I have had many of my harshest battles with very masculine, overtly feminist women. I also suspect older women, especially mothers, are lower on the scale in general, as I noticed covert and overt aggression from them much less often.

On the society level, we can definitely see widespread dehumanization of men in commercials and conversation, 'Us vs. Them' and Win/Lose policies towards men supported on a wide scale and frequent intended power grabs by women on both the individual man-woman and collective societal scale. Violence towards men is usually not actively promoted - however, it is often passively permitted, and non-physical forms of violence such as emotional abuse, reputational slander and financial ruin (made infamous by false accusations and 'divorce rape') are often overlooked at best.

The only reason I'd say we haven't passed the 50 yet on a society scale is because there is a considerable percentage of the population that does not support this; there is a big backlash in this country against more extreme feminist and left influences which among other things, for better or for worse drove Donald Trump's ascension into the presidency. Combined with a strong semi-mainstream Red Pill influence in the United States and a rising men-centric counterculture, the most extreme examples of oppression have been made harder to be made palatable to the mainstream population with SJWs and extreme feminists being ridiculed by even moderates and less extreme left people in many online spaces.

With that said, more subtle means of oppression are still going strong; the court of public opinion generally favors the woman, marriage is notoriously unfavorable to men, and between an overwhelmingly female education system and fatherless homes many boys face an uphill battle becoming men, which ultimately ends up harming everyone. And while I don't think the average woman hates men, she definitely distrusts them, and history shows that it only takes a small percentage of a population on either side to greatly change the fate of a much larger group of people. History also shows that the pendulum of oppression can rapidly swing from one side to the other, that violence begets violence, and that more moderate, sensible minds tend to get caught in the crossfire, so be careful out there and read between the lines... and that goes for me as well.

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I will also point out that if you look at most mainstream American Hollywood movies and TV shows from the last 25 years, most show depict men in a terrible light.

Many of the film clips in Power University that show "men being men" are older modern classics like Scarface, not movies that were released more recently.

Of course there are many exceptions to what I'm saying. (Though I honestly can't think of any as I write this.) But the general trend is very disturbing to me.

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And correctly so. Where the first seed of oppression is placed, it must inevitably grow into its conclusion unless stopped by those with the will to preserve their way of life. This is true across ideologies, time and space. The only way to stop this is for boys to successfully grow into men, and for that they need good examples.

There are modern examples of masculinity that survive, although usually not in classic films. TV shows like Roman Empire, Vikings and Game of Thrones show masculinity in its rawest form - the warrior's will to survive, fight and win. Masculinity also survives in superhero movies - characters like Wolverine and Thor (before he got fat) are admired by many men for good reason. Morally grey masculine characters like Sherlock Holmes, Magneto and Thanos also gain a lot of favorable reception. Why? Because people want to see masculine characters, even if many wish it was otherwise.

Not that the oppression isn't here; it certainly is. But they can't suppress a million years of biology with a bit of delusional leftist rhetoric. Men want to be men. Women want men. Children look up to men. Even animals trust masculine men. It's a simple calculus. I fully say that their movement is doomed from the start, for it goes against life itself.

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