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How to counter the “you made this up in your head” power move when you just confessed to someone you were into them?
Hi guys
These days I’ve had one of the biggest hearbreaks I have ever had in my life. Everything was going perfectly well: I had a perfectly good interaction with a girl (from another course) in my university some months ago. The problem was that she had a boyfriend, so I did nothing at the time. In the last month, we started bumping into each other somewhat more frequently, and on the third time, after we talked for about 5 minutes, she proceeded to chase me hard: she talked to many of her friends that she thought might know me until she got my phone number. I then got to know from an acquaintance that she had ended her relationship. So everything seemed gold, except for one problem: I was going on a long vacation that very same day, so I coudn’t escalate.
What I did (and that was very dumb. I don’t recommend anyone doing this again :) ) was: I (over)invested in her from a distance. We would talk every day both through text and on the phone – sometimes for hours on end. She also initiated the interactions. We would send pictures to each other. We spoke our minds, discovered so many commonalities and common goals. She started calling me sweet names, I started saying that I was already longing for my return, she started saying that I was her prince and that she was dreaming about me all the time. I was really building expectations and it seemed very natural to do so.
But when I finally came back, everything changed all of a sudden: she was cold and we never met. I would propose to meet, she would agree, but then proceed to cancel. She did propose another day, but when the day arrived (a week later), she cancelled it again. Immediately after this second postponing, I decided to end everything. As she was from my peripheral social circle, I wanted to try to understand her and provide a reason for not pursuing her anymore, so that there wouldn’t be too much weirdness when we finally met (unavoidably after the winter vacations).
I called her:
Kavalier: Hey, Jessica, is everything okay? It’s the second time we can’t make this work
Jessica: everything okay, just busy
Kavalier: Is it really everything allright? We have barely talked since I got here. I was expecting some more communication
Jessica: Yeah, as I told you, I’m just busy right now. I’ll tell you when I’ll be able to meet [showing visible irritation in her voice]
Kavalier: You know, Jessica. I was really looking forward to see you. We met, I thought you were wonderful. We were having so many great conversations while I was in Spain that I couldn’t help thinking of us both when I came back. I thought we were up for something together.
Jessica: Kavalier, I don’t know what you were thinking, but you’ve built this up in your head. I was interested in you, but I don’t want to get in a relationship right now. I'm sorry if you thought something else.
Kavalier: [silence. I just couldn’t believe what I was hearing]. Then it was all just a misunderstanding. Have a good vacation, Jessica. I wish you well.
I still can’t believe what just happened. She must be going through something else that has no relationship to our "relationship" (haha), but after this, I couldn't care less. She just pulled power move after power move, and I still can’t think of a good answer I could have had in the end and I’m very sure that in my last sentence I sounded badly butthurt. What would you guys have answered/done in my place? Was there a better way of handling this?
That must be really hard, and thanks for sharing your story.
What I did (and that was very dumb. I don’t recommend anyone doing this again 🙂 ) was: I (over)invested in her from a distance.
I would avoid investing a lot if you're unable to meet up.
Women who recently broke up with their boyfriends are volatile.
You talked a lot over a long distance.
The emotions were high at the start but you couldn't move the interaction forward so to speak (meeting up).
So the emotions probably started to fade.
I would say that, if you're able to meet up, fast texting can go really well with the women's high emotions.
The key is meeting up.
Ask her out on a high point.
She could also be "using" you for therapy.
Quotations because it's not really manipulation.
People who break up need an emotional outlet and someone to talk to.
It could be good if you enjoy doing some sexual healing.
I would play as it goes for a woman who just broke up.
It can be challenging to see how it will play out.
Maybe you could give one last shot:
You: Final call before the holidays!
Let's go for [venue] on [day].
[add in one line of great stuff about the venue]
Presents for you depending on whether you're Santa's naughty list.
Matthew nailed it. And you ve learned the same valuable and hard lessons we ve all had to learn. There's a brief window of opportunity for romance. If you miss that and/or over validate a woman your in the friend zone. Although TBH it should be called the orbiter zone because you are the guy who helps them out with life favours and provides emotional support and never a sniff of the u know what although there will be a bit of flirting and teasing to keep you on the hook. And unfortunately once you are in that zone near impossible to leave it. Think of it like the event horizon of a black hole you are frozen with a look of horror on your face forever. Which leads to my next rule: 1 chance per woman per lifetime.
There's sound biological and historical reasons Don't hate learn to work with their nature. They re not bad they re just drawn that way:
And PLUG if i was a young guy i would definitely buy seduction university from Lucio and no i'm not on commission i just know the quality of his other products
Thank you a lot, Matthew and Transitioned!
Unfortunately I learned the lessons you guys are teaching me the hard way.
Good thing I also bought access to Lucio's Seduction University shortly before all of this. It has been helping a lot these days.
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on December 22, 2021, 2:27 amYou: Final call before the holidays!
Let's go for [venue] on [day].
[add in one line of great stuff about the venue]
Presents for you depending on whether you're Santa's naughty list.
Matthew, I think this line is great. I'll surely be using it on other girls in a more humorous setting before Christmas. But I'll just let this one go. A third attempt at invitation would be chasing too hard (especially for a woman in my social circle) and would more likely annoy her, especially after all those power moves (above all "I'll tell you when...").
Do you guys think that my performance in that last phone interaction could be improved upon? What would you have said?
And do you guys think the phone call was a good idea at all? It was a last attempt to try to fix things - if they could be fixed -, before moving on. I also didn't want to look as if I had just "ghosted" - but is "ghosting" so bad after all?
At that point lowest investment possible is best. Send a Hey you and a Xmas emoji or meme. Then absolute radio silence unless she responds. If she does I d text back day after.
Normally if I d got cold shoulder or ignored I d text a week later and only if I really liked the girls personality. You are trying to get around the 1 chance per girl per lifetime rule of the universe. So understand it's likely done dusty dead in the ground. I d be looking to the next girl. The cure for girls venom is homeopathic. A little of the hair of the dog.
To answer the question in the subject:
at that point, there wasn't much to counter.
More like "how to exit gracefully" or "how to exit high power", and I think you've done it well (and read on for more options).
From a "dating effectively" point of view, investing all that much from distance is an obvious "no-no".
In terms of "atypical approaches" that can work, what you've done might work.
And when it does, it's very "sweep her off her feet" seductive.
But it's full of perils, and not easy to manage.
Some things to increase the odds:
- Don't make the interactions daily: good availability is selective and conditional. Always available is a turn off for most women (some exceptions in person apply)
This is one of the reasons why this approach worked much better in the old gone-by days of letters.
Letters are low availability than instant messaging, and they leave the dots open for her to fill.
They make the budding lovers think and invest, but without constant contact.
- Never make the romance TOO obvious or it "peaks"
Leave it hanging, leave both the intimacy, the romance, and the "possible future relationship" unspoken.
So something like "it's nice talking to you, I feel like we're similar in many ways" is good.
But "you're my princess" is not good.
Funny enough, when she talks about "prince", you want to reward it a bit but NOT expand on it.
For example, say "ahaha, a good dream, I hope" and send a picture of a knight in shiny armor.
When the romance becomes too obvious, too strong, you risk f "peaking".
You don't want to peak when not in person.
Think of simmering VS boiling.
You want to simmer, not boil.
And the other risk of peaking, which is probably what happened here is:
- From dream fairytale to "just sex"
See it from a woman's eyes.
Before she had this great romance in her mind, a living fairytale out of a romance novel.
Now you're back.
Not it goes from "fairytale" to "reality".
And reality often struggles to keep up with fantasies -and especially if you're not there in person to manage it-.
Plus, meeting in your case now seemed a lot like "sealing the deal sex".
Most women are wary of "meet and fuck".
So you had to make that meet more strategic:
- Make the meet "incidental"
To avoid that she comes to see it as "meet and fuck", that her dreams comes crushing into reality, and that you come across as chasing, you want to play down your come back.
Crazy, I know, but that's how to execute it with higher odds.
Making the meet "incidental" makes it less about "meet and fuck", and more about "her opportunity to have some of that magic in real life".
So you'd first announce it more like: "hey, BTW, I'll probably be back for some university stuff, maybe we can catch up".
Talk about that in-person meeting, but without building it up.
You want to make the gap "dream-reality" as seamless possible.
"Not a big deal".
So this is where this went south:
Quote from Kavalier on December 22, 2021, 1:36 am
- She started calling me sweet names = reply "LOL" at her nicknames or with a laugh. Reward it so she doesn't self-reject, but dont' encourage it
- I started saying that I was already longing for my return = here you want to do the opposite. Say "it's awesome here, so beautiful". Let her ask you more, send some pictures of local food, let her ask when you'll be back, say "not yet sure, maybe around X. I'll bring back some of this prosciutto, you should try it"
- she started saying that I was her prince and that she was dreaming about me all the time = you're in the sweetspot for "sweeping off her feet seduction", but you're at "peaking risk". When she says the prince thing, say "ahaha awesome, i hope I didn't ruin that dream with my still poor table manners :D" (bring her down to earth). What was the dream about
- I was really building expectations and it seemed very natural to do so = opposite of what you wanted to do. Play it down, make the meet a "let's catch up" rather than "let's seal the deal of this dream romance"
- I would propose to meet, she would agree, but then proceed to cancel= rather than propose, say "hey, I found a cool place here where they make X dish I sent you. Let's try it out this weekend"
Overall, the "number's game mindset" would have helped here.
This was an awesome story, but it shouldn't have become a dream for you.
Let her dream, and manage her dream until you can turn it into a reality (it's a fucking tough job being a man, lemme tell you :).
Until then, just another "lead" with great potential and with whom it was great to talk. But still just a lead because "potential" means little.
The Call
Your call was great for the level of understanding you had at that point.
For someone with a better understanding of the dynamics, you chased too much and was too vulnerable with a woman who was already closed off at that point.
Such as, after she turned cold and canceled two meets, it should have been possible to see that the whole thing was off.
Behavior is always your #1 sign of how things are.
"Built this up in your head" line
That was tough.
It's obviously not true and a BS.
At this point, I'm not sure whether "you build this up in your head" is simply how most women would behave in that situation, or if it was just mean.
If any woman is reading, I'd be happy to hear her thoughts.
Answer to "you made this up"
Your exit was great.
Especially considering she's in your social circle.
Yet, a higher-power frame control and exit would have also been OK:
You: Nono Jessica, that's just not true.
Things have changed now and that's totally cool, you'll meet someone, and I'll meet someone else.
And we can be friends.
But to be friends, let's clear the air first.
Don't come and tell me that anyone made anything up when one is calling someone else (sweet names) and dreaming of being their prince.
Saying "you made this up" is gaslighting.
Let her talk.
Expect hanging up or getting truly emotionally upset.
You remain (as) centered (as you can) and then add:
You: That's cool, I said my piece and I stand by it.
Don't come at me with "you made this up" BS because, again, it's not true and it's gaslighting.
That being said, I've had a great time interacting with you, and we can stay friends.
Heartbkreas Make You Stronger
Overall, man, sorry to hear about the heartbreak.
But overall, I'm not a bit worried about you: heartbreaks make you stronger.
You got a nice romance story going, and that can help you re-create romances and deeper seductions going forward.
And if you seek effectiveness, what Matthew and Transitioned said is golden: avoid over-investing and focus on in-real-life women.
Thanks for sharing such an in-depth strategy.
Would you summarise the above analysis to be switching from an initial strategy of
Sweeping a woman off her feet (timing the peak)
to a modified strategy of
Slow burn (simmer) with a touch of realistic fantasy
given the longer timeline that Kavalier has?
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on December 22, 2021, 11:06 amThanks for sharing such an in-depth strategy.
Would you summarise the above analysis to be switching from an initial strategy of
Sweeping a woman off her feet (timing the peak)
to a modified strategy of
Slow burn (simmer) with a touch of realistic fantasy
given the longer timeline that Kavalier has?
In part, yes.
But it's still a very realistic goal to "sweep her off her feet" even with the simmering and less engaged strategy.
The fantasy is OK, just not letting the fantasy totally replace reality -and then making the reality of in-person meeting less of a big deal so that the break is not as abrupt-.
You made BIG steps forward, Kavalier. I know it doesn't look like it now, but if you use this experience right it will become rocket fuel for exponential growth. Do so and you will get women that blow her out of the water, I promise you.
Now with that said, I can offer insights into a different area. I'm not much of a strategist (right now at least), but my instincts are razor-sharp and they say this:
'How would a badass, purpose-driven man of value respond to this situation?'
Would he focus on a woman or the mission? Her fleeting truths or what he knows is right? Spending value where it's not returned or cultivating more - both by his own and by win-win relationships?
Women instinctively adapt to masculinity; they change moment by moment by what we put out. The same woman that deeply wanted you can utterly reject you - and vice-versa - depending on what you are embodying and how steadfastly you stand by that. Women are an accurate external barometer of what's going on inside - they know what we're doing often before even we do.
They feel it. Always.
My honest advice is to see this situation - yourself, her and the exchange involved - as plastic, able to be changed by appropriate expression of your will, while simultaneously letting go of it. You don't need her to be happy. Find what brings you joy, what gives you purpose, what makes you feel manly AF, and go at it 100%. Chase goals, not girls. Girls will come as a side effect... but by that point you'll sincerely be satisfied with your life with and without them.
Good luck out there, bro.
Thanks for the advice.
That helps a lot.
So "sweep her off her feet" means that, from the woman's perspective, she becomes enthralled and hooked from the seduction experience.
It's more than just attraction and feeling comfortable with the man.
I thought "sweep her off her feet" refers to a fast-moving dynamic like the literal 5-second physical action.
I had the mental picture of a sudden romance from the literal meaning of the phrase.
But "sweep her off her feet" can be slow or fast.
It can be a sensual dance rather than a sudden sweep.
If I'm understanding this correctly.
The fantasy is OK, just not letting the fantasy totally replace reality -and then making the reality of in-person meeting less of a big deal so that the break is not as abrupt-.
I never tried the fairytale, Disney type of fantasy.
I did "visualisation fantasies" with a woman in person before.
But not over text or phone.
Like surfing in Hawaii fantasies if that's even classified as a fantasy.
For subsequent meet-ups, she would ask me to make a different "fantasy" sometimes like being on Mars.
The vibe was fun and imaginative rather than like a romance novel.
She was a dreamy artist who paints dreamy illustrations.
Heartbkreas Make You Stronger
Overall, man, sorry to hear about the heartbreak.
But overall, I'm not a bit worried about you: heartbreaks make you stronger.
You got a nice romance story going, and that can help you re-create romances and deeper seductions going forward.
Thanks to Kavalier for sharing such a deep, personal experience with us.
Lucio's message reminds me of Dr. Seuss' quote:
Don't cry because it's over; smile because it happened
The bittersweet memories.
The closing of one chapter and the opening of another.
