Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 20, 2021, 7:36 am

Hey man,

Permission to be frank:

It seems like there have been some shitty, shitty actions there.
If you're looking for ways to one-up back, there are also some shitty mindsets and values behind those questions.
And it sounds like there are some deep, foundational issues in the relationship.

And I don't use the word "shitty" lightly, and I don't want to be offensive or aggressive, but as a way to be as clear as possible.

Start with the "Start Here" section and go through all the articles there.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 20, 2021, 7:47 am

And to anyone reading here, if it's not clear why the initial post shows that some of the most foundational elements in terms of values, approaches, and mindsets are missing, please, do comment here.

It's possible I might have to do a better job at organizing that "Start Here" section and start with some of the basic mindsets and values first.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 20, 2021, 12:17 pm

OFF-TOPIC

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 20, 2021, 7:47 am

It's possible I might have to do a better job at organizing that "Start Here" section and start with some of the basic mindsets and values first.

I think there are 2 unintuitive tabs.
I find "Articles" would be more intuitive compared to "Blog".
And "Book Reviews" to be clearer than "Resources".

OFF-TOPIC

Quote from selffriend on March 21, 2021, 3:08 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 20, 2021, 7:36 am

Hey man,

Permission to be frank:

It seems like there have been some shitty, shitty actions there.
If you're looking for ways to one-up back, there are also some shitty mindsets and values behind those questions.
And it sounds like there are some deep, foundational issues in the relationship.

And I don't use the word "shitty" lightly, and I don't want to be offensive or aggressive, but as a way to be as clear as possible.

Start with the "Start Here" section and go through all the articles there.

Many thanks for your reply! In fact, before reading your articles  "Psychopaths’ Sexual Strategy: Marauders of Sex", section 12.10,  I had no idea that it was a game or "power move". My partner said s/he checked my phone because s/he "care about me too much and love me too much". I believed her/his words, mostly.

 

Unfortunately, in that specific article, you did not mention how to deal with the issue in section 12.10.

 

I just went over your "Start Here" and of course I agree with most of your values, especially the ones on individualism and "Power starts by choosing never to be a victim", which fits perfectly to the initial post.

I never try to demean anyone, so I hope others won't demean me. I am not seeking any "one-up".

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 21, 2021, 5:11 am

Quote from rat dodo on March 21, 2021, 3:08 am

My partner said s/he checked my phone because s/he "care about me too much and love me too much". I believed her/his words, mostly.

Well, that changes everything.

But first, lemme clarify why my initial "strong" message.

There were several potential issues that stemmed from the first message:

You Don't Scratch With the Turkey, You Teach Them to Fly

The high-value partner in a relationship, especially if it’s the man, doesn’t play win-lose with.

But instead instructs her to operate a higher level and holds her accountable for better behavior.

If she doesn’t, then she might not be the right partner.

As you might guess, playing the one-upping game is scratching with the turkeys.
Instructing is teaching her to fly with the eagles.
And holding her accountable is keeping her up there.

(Good) leaders don't play win-lose

The question suggested she might not see you as a leader for good.

If she did, chances are low that she would try to one-up you.

That's usually the behavior of women who either don't respect much or, more often, who resent their partner.

But it's rarely the behavior of women who look up to their partner, and who are happy with his leadership.

At the same time, a strong leader does not look for ways to one-up the people they lead (some I, wrongly, thought you might have been interested in doing: my bad!).

Of course, no shame in not being the leader.

Yet, those mindset flaws that a man needs to one-up her in order to stay in the relationship also precludes the man from ever being a leader -and especially a good, value-adding one-.
And that's why I had to draw a line with my first message: I don't want those mindsets to even creep up in here.

Partners who take advantage of you are not good enough to be your partner

What would you think of someone who hacks your stuff, reads your secrets, and use them against you?

Pretty shitty behavior, right?

You wouldn’t accept that from someone who is a stranger, right?

So why would you accept it from someone who is closer to you? Those closer to you should be far kinder and supportive than strangers.

Of course, with the second message you added some important information that somewhat changes the dynamics, but we (or I) didn't know that first.
So my first -legit- thought was "how can anyone accept that behavior"?

You don't do win-lose in LTRs

Again, this was my misunderstanding.

I thought that OP was looking for ways to win.

And for sure there are millions of times to play win-lose.
Sometimes, even in seduction.

But that’s not the approach for long term relationships.
In relationships -or even friendships, basically anything close and longer-term- and approach of constant struggles and one-upping is toxic.

And it’s not even a question of morals and ethics.
It’s inherently low-quality as well: who wants to be in a constant struggle with a win-lose partner?
Some people would say that it’s only someone with no options. But I say that it’s more than that: it’s someone who so desperately needs someone else, that is ready to take anything.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 21, 2021, 5:16 am

So, again, my bad for filling in the void of information with a few crucial conclusions that were wrong and mistaken, sorry man!

And in light of the new information, that she hacked your laptop to find your secrets: what to do with it?

I'd personally still consider it a negative gesture.
if she apologized and backtracked -which it seems she did-, it's a good thing.
If she truly did it out of fear of losing you, it might be a partial justification.

Now it's your time to:

1. Reassure that you like her (if what she says is true, it might also be you didn't communicate that well enough)
2. Demand better standards of behavior
3. Teach her how a win-win relationship looks like (and to do that, you need to know it yourself first)
4. Observe

If all checks out, then it's all good.
And it might -might!- be possible that all of this happened because she liked you so much that she felt she needed those power moves to keep you, and the relationship will only be better afterward.

But you need to make sure of that.

Quote from selffriend on March 21, 2021, 5:38 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 21, 2021, 5:11 am

Quote from rat dodo on March 21, 2021, 3:08 am

My partner said s/he checked my phone because s/he "care about me too much and love me too much". I believed her/his words, mostly.

Well, that changes everything.

But first, lemme clarify why my initial "strong" message.

There were several potential issues that stemmed from the first message:

You Don't Scratch With the Turkey, You Teach Them to Fly

The high-value partner in a relationship, especially if it’s the man, doesn’t play win-lose with.

But instead instructs her to operate a higher level and holds her accountable for better behavior.

If she doesn’t, then she might not be the right partner.

As you might guess, playing the one-upping game is scratching with the turkeys.
Instructing is teaching her to fly with the eagles.
And holding her accountable is keeping her up there.

(Good) leaders don't play win-lose

The question suggested she might not see you as a leader for good.

If she did, chances are low that she would try to one-up you.

That's usually the behavior of women who either don't respect much or, more often, who resent their partner.

But it's rarely the behavior of women who look up to their partner, and who are happy with his leadership.

At the same time, a strong leader does not look for ways to one-up the people they lead (some I, wrongly, thought you might have been interested in doing: my bad!).

Of course, no shame in not being the leader.

Yet, those mindset flaws that a man needs to one-up her in order to stay in the relationship also precludes the man from ever being a leader -and especially a good, value-adding one-.
And that's why I had to draw a line with my first message: I don't want those mindsets to even creep up in here.

Partners who take advantage of you are not good enough to be your partner

What would you think of someone who hacks your stuff, reads your secrets, and use them against you?

Pretty shitty behavior, right?

You wouldn’t accept that from someone who is a stranger, right?

So why would you accept it from someone who is closer to you? Those closer to you should be far kinder and supportive than strangers.

Of course, with the second message you added some important information that somewhat changes the dynamics, but we (or I) didn't know that first.
So my first -legit- thought was "how can anyone accept that behavior"?

You don't do win-lose in LTRs

Again, this was my misunderstanding.

I thought that OP was looking for ways to win.

And for sure there are millions of times to play win-lose.
Sometimes, even in seduction.

But that’s not the approach for long term relationships.
In relationships -or even friendships, basically anything close and longer-term- and approach of constant struggles and one-upping is toxic.

And it’s not even a question of morals and ethics.
It’s inherently low-quality as well: who wants to be in a constant struggle with a win-lose partner?
Some people would say that it’s only someone with no options. But I say that it’s more than that: it’s someone who so desperately needs someone else, that is ready to take anything.

I read this carefully and I think I learn a lot. I am reading more of your materials right now to train myself to become a good leader. I cannot agree more about your thoughts here.

We met during COVID and we endured the hardest time together. I was unaware of powerdynamics in 2020 just like Elon Musk. Because of those two reasons I was struggling with this win-lose game player. She also uses triangulation a lot, saying that I have tons of weaknesses, and her exes and friends have so many good characteristics.

I had a long conversation with her based on your message and uses these steps:

1. explaining what she's doing -making up false accusations-
2. maybe add a "why" -maybe you want to get more attention from me"
3. add why it's bad -but that's not the way to get more attention because it's gamey, covert aggressive, and generally unfair towards me-
4. explain what she can do instead -what she can do when and if she needs you, and the behavior you generally like to see in your relationship-
5. tell her what will happen if she keeps the gaming behavior: she is killing your love, and you will have to ignore her requests and distance yourself for a while

Step 3 does not actually work in my case.

For example, she says that she checked my phone because she care about me. She mentioned others because she wants me to "grow-up" like them. She asks for my investment because all her friends' boy friends invest more than the female counterpart and this is the social norm. She nag me because "all-women from her province" do the same. (By the way, I learned about the nagging game in one of your posts)

She always have a million of reasons to justify her actions.

By the way, she is Fearful Avoidant, and I think now, we are close to break-up.