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"I know you would do the same for me"

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#1 · February 27, 2022, 4:49 pm

Quote from John Freeman on February 27, 2022, 4:49 pm
Hello guys,

I learned this in the "like switch". It's an excellent book BTW, I recommend it to you. In this book he also talks about friendly signals, which are important to make friends and not enemies.

Anyway, this goes like that:

When you do a favor to someone which commands that they acknowledge the value given. You just say:

(My pleasure/It's all good), I know you would do the same for me.

I used it only once. However, I think it should go in "proven techniques" as it works.

Context: my colleague had to do a presentation in 1 week notice and I had a presentation ready. She would have been in great trouble and I accepted to replace her.

As soon as I said this sentence (as an experiment), the person immediately started to promise future services. I stopped them in their tracks as it was too much. So it's to be used sparsely. However, it's powerful to make the person mentally acknowledge the value received.

Example

Soon I'm going to keep my friend's cats for 2 weeks while they're on holiday. So this is kind of a big service to him from my POV as I'm quite busy.

I know his GF is going to bring me some little bottle of oil or some honey from holiday as a reciprocity token. That's what she did last time when I kept them for a week-end.

She's quite the manipulative type and this is typically credit deflation. I liked the gift and it's all good. I eat honey rarely though.

However, I felt she knew she was bringing something cheap so she does not owe me anything psychologically. She could mentally erase what she would owe me, which is more than a 4 euros gift. Even symbolically speaking as the gift was not tailored for me. It was a generic gift if you will.

My mistake was to say to my friend: "it's all good I enjoyed keeping your cats".

This is true, I love cats. However it makes it look as he was rendering ME a service.

Of course, Lucio there was an element of win-win there. But overall it took me time and energy to take care of the cats

He's quite a good friend. That being said I already had this experience in the past. People give you a small gift (that you don't even like) to make up for a big service. Especially coming from the manipulative type.

So when he will bring me a gift from his holiday, you know what I'm going to say:

My pleasure, I know you would do the same for me.

Hello guys,

I learned this in the "like switch". It's an excellent book BTW, I recommend it to you. In this book he also talks about friendly signals, which are important to make friends and not enemies.

Anyway, this goes like that:

When you do a favor to someone which commands that they acknowledge the value given. You just say:

(My pleasure/It's all good), I know you would do the same for me.

I used it only once. However, I think it should go in "proven techniques" as it works.

Context: my colleague had to do a presentation in 1 week notice and I had a presentation ready. She would have been in great trouble and I accepted to replace her.

As soon as I said this sentence (as an experiment), the person immediately started to promise future services. I stopped them in their tracks as it was too much. So it's to be used sparsely. However, it's powerful to make the person mentally acknowledge the value received.

Example

Soon I'm going to keep my friend's cats for 2 weeks while they're on holiday. So this is kind of a big service to him from my POV as I'm quite busy.

I know his GF is going to bring me some little bottle of oil or some honey from holiday as a reciprocity token. That's what she did last time when I kept them for a week-end.

She's quite the manipulative type and this is typically credit deflation. I liked the gift and it's all good. I eat honey rarely though.

However, I felt she knew she was bringing something cheap so she does not owe me anything psychologically. She could mentally erase what she would owe me, which is more than a 4 euros gift. Even symbolically speaking as the gift was not tailored for me. It was a generic gift if you will.

My mistake was to say to my friend: "it's all good I enjoyed keeping your cats".

This is true, I love cats. However it makes it look as he was rendering ME a service.

Of course, Lucio there was an element of win-win there. But overall it took me time and energy to take care of the cats

He's quite a good friend. That being said I already had this experience in the past. People give you a small gift (that you don't even like) to make up for a big service. Especially coming from the manipulative type.

So when he will bring me a gift from his holiday, you know what I'm going to say:

My pleasure, I know you would do the same for me.

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Lucio Buffalmano@lucio

6,304 Posts

#2 · February 28, 2022, 12:18 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2022, 12:18 am
This is a very interesting one.

And I'm curious to hear what others think -so much so that I wanted not to write my point of view to avoid any influence-.

I've heard it more than once from a few social skills book.
Instant Influence for example, where the stock phrase was:

You: Oh don’t worry about it, I know you would have done the same for me

A bit less aggressive since it's in the past form, so the implication that they should do the same going forward is less strong.

The Cons

That being said, I'm personally not the biggest fan of it.

It's a way of asking for the favor back, which is fair, and makes it especially suited for work and/or more exchange-based relationships.

It's not good in my opinion for friendships, relationships, family, and anything that adds the emotional component to the relationship -including friends at work-.

Disempowering them can be OK... But you can also come across as sneaky

Personally, I'm not sure I'd even use it at work.

It can feel disempowering for the receiver, like you're telling them how they'd act.

However, if they were game players, then disempowering is OK.

The other issue though is that you may lose some points becuase it can feel like a sneaky way of asking for a favor back.
Especially because you'd say that after they already expressed gratitude. In that case, it can feel like social scalping.

I remember in some of the books I read that sentence from, it felt like social scalping (can't say if it was "The Like Switch").

If someone told me that, I'd think something like:

Him: I know you'd do the same for me
Me: (translating from subconscious processes: "I don't know know if I would, probably yes, but why are you telling me that? You don't know that. Are you trying to get something back with a long detour? If so, just ask straight up")

So, personally, I'd say:

OK in work environment with more political players

OK whenever you can't be direct but want to make sure you get something back

OK with more manipulative folks that need a reminder of the service provided (John's example)

But keep in mind the cons.
And keep in mind that if you need to use it too often, you might want to re-assess and/or rebalance the relationships at a deeper level.

This is a very interesting one.

And I'm curious to hear what others think -so much so that I wanted not to write my point of view to avoid any influence-.

I've heard it more than once from a few social skills book.
Instant Influence for example, where the stock phrase was:

You: Oh don’t worry about it, I know you would have done the same for me

A bit less aggressive since it's in the past form, so the implication that they should do the same going forward is less strong.

The Cons

That being said, I'm personally not the biggest fan of it.

It's a way of asking for the favor back, which is fair, and makes it especially suited for work and/or more exchange-based relationships.

It's not good in my opinion for friendships, relationships, family, and anything that adds the emotional component to the relationship -including friends at work-.

Disempowering them can be OK... But you can also come across as sneaky

Personally, I'm not sure I'd even use it at work.

It can feel disempowering for the receiver, like you're telling them how they'd act.

However, if they were game players, then disempowering is OK.

The other issue though is that you may lose some points becuase it can feel like a sneaky way of asking for a favor back.
Especially because you'd say that after they already expressed gratitude. In that case, it can feel like social scalping.

I remember in some of the books I read that sentence from, it felt like social scalping (can't say if it was "The Like Switch").

If someone told me that, I'd think something like:

Him: I know you'd do the same for me
Me: (translating from subconscious processes: "I don't know know if I would, probably yes, but why are you telling me that? You don't know that. Are you trying to get something back with a long detour? If so, just ask straight up")

So, personally, I'd say:

OK in work environment with more political players
OK whenever you can't be direct but want to make sure you get something back
OK with more manipulative folks that need a reminder of the service provided (John's example)

But keep in mind the cons.
And keep in mind that if you need to use it too often, you might want to re-assess and/or rebalance the relationships at a deeper level.

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John Freeman@amerok

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#3 · February 28, 2022, 6:13 am

Thank you for your perspective, Lucio.

I was not aware of these implications. Food for thought, definitely.

I thought I found a gem, might just be a pretty rock 😉

Anyway, that explains my colleague’s reaction and why I dropped it as she was all over the place trying to find something of equal value to give me. It made me uneasy as well.

Yes, so it’s more defensive than bread-and-butter.

Thank you very much, this prevented me from being more manipulative than I intended to.

Anon@anonymous_user

142 Posts

Empowered Member

#4 · February 28, 2022, 1:03 pm

Quote from Anon on February 28, 2022, 1:03 pm
Quote from John Freeman on February 27, 2022, 4:49 pm

Thank you for sharing this John!

Honestly, my first overall impression was different from yours Lucio, but I can totally see the downsides you point out and agree with the use cases you describe, and I like the past tense form of it also better, as it's less aggressive indeed.

I think the cons certainly apply for close relationships that are already very balanced in terms of value given/received and/or people who are very aware of the value dynamics and try to make up for it themselves, or relationships where the whole exchange thing doesn't really apply.

So my thoughts only apply for relationships where we want a fair amount of value exchanged.

Establishing an exchange

I think establishing the amount of value you gave is an important piece of the puzzle in the whole concept of fair value exchange - if the recipient isn't really aware of it all or you suspect this to be the case.

So I think making the other respectfully, subtle and nicely aware of the fact that you gave value is fair or even important - if it was significant value. (If you can think of better ways to do this (or disagree) - please share!)

What you proposed John, could be reserved for relatively large amounts of value given (like the example you shared), but then it seems fair and good to me (the past tense version as Lucio pointed out), it fits the concept of modeling desireable, fair value behaviour and win-win relationships. However I can see Lucios point of it coming across as sneaky in certain circumstances as it is very indirect.

However me liking this approach might be to a large degree because I'm someone who tends to struggle with asking for something back directly. So such indirect ways are attractive to me.

It might also because I had good results with something less 'extreme' but conceptually similiar, when I responded with "Happy to help you!" when I gave value and they liked it - and established that I indeed helped them, instead of, for example, the common downplaying (which makes sense for small amounts of value given).

Applying the concept of establishing given value in practice:

Small value given: Downplaying it or "My pleasure" => establishes: it's nothing - value pocket change so to speak

Medium value given: "Happy to help you!"* => establishes: I helped you.

Large value given: "My pleasure, I know you would've done the same for me." => establishes: I gave you a lot.

*(credit to Matthew, who used it in response to the judge-frame powermove "And that's why I like you" - which refocusses on the value received, and that should work in other situations as well)

And from the receivers end:

Small value received: "Thanks." / "Thank you."

Medium value received: "Thank you, I really appreciate your help!"

Large value received: "Wow, -Thank You- for doing this, this helped a lot!" maybe: "I will try to come up with something to give you something back / help you out as well!"

If you can think of more or other things to say in response to each category of value given or received, I'm curious to read more implementations as well. But please critizice it if you think this is flawed.

Quote from John Freeman on February 27, 2022, 4:49 pm

Thank you for sharing this John!

Honestly, my first overall impression was different from yours Lucio, but I can totally see the downsides you point out and agree with the use cases you describe, and I like the past tense form of it also better, as it's less aggressive indeed.

I think the cons certainly apply for close relationships that are already very balanced in terms of value given/received and/or people who are very aware of the value dynamics and try to make up for it themselves, or relationships where the whole exchange thing doesn't really apply.

So my thoughts only apply for relationships where we want a fair amount of value exchanged.

Establishing an exchange

I think establishing the amount of value you gave is an important piece of the puzzle in the whole concept of fair value exchange - if the recipient isn't really aware of it all or you suspect this to be the case.

So I think making the other respectfully, subtle and nicely aware of the fact that you gave value is fair or even important - if it was significant value. (If you can think of better ways to do this (or disagree) - please share!)

What you proposed John, could be reserved for relatively large amounts of value given (like the example you shared), but then it seems fair and good to me (the past tense version as Lucio pointed out), it fits the concept of modeling desireable, fair value behaviour and win-win relationships. However I can see Lucios point of it coming across as sneaky in certain circumstances as it is very indirect.

However me liking this approach might be to a large degree because I'm someone who tends to struggle with asking for something back directly. So such indirect ways are attractive to me.

It might also because I had good results with something less 'extreme' but conceptually similiar, when I responded with "Happy to help you!" when I gave value and they liked it - and established that I indeed helped them, instead of, for example, the common downplaying (which makes sense for small amounts of value given).

Applying the concept of establishing given value in practice:

Small value given: Downplaying it or "My pleasure" => establishes: it's nothing - value pocket change so to speak

Medium value given: "Happy to help you!"* => establishes: I helped you.

Large value given: "My pleasure, I know you would've done the same for me." => establishes: I gave you a lot.

*(credit to Matthew, who used it in response to the judge-frame powermove "And that's why I like you" - which refocusses on the value received, and that should work in other situations as well)

And from the receivers end:

Small value received: "Thanks." / "Thank you."

Medium value received: "Thank you, I really appreciate your help!"

Large value received: "Wow, -Thank You- for doing this, this helped a lot!" maybe: "I will try to come up with something to give you something back / help you out as well!"

If you can think of more or other things to say in response to each category of value given or received, I'm curious to read more implementations as well. But please critizice it if you think this is flawed.

Lucio Buffalmano and Bel have reacted to this post.

Anon@anonymous_user

142 Posts

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#5 · February 28, 2022, 1:12 pm

Quote from Anon on February 28, 2022, 1:12 pm

Quote from John Freeman on February 27, 2022, 4:49 pm

Soon I'm going to keep my friend's cats for 2 weeks while they're on holiday. So this is kind of a big service to him from my POV as I'm quite busy.

I know his GF is going to bring me some little bottle of oil from holiday as a reciprocity token. That's what she did last time when I kept them for a week-end.

She's quite the manipulative type and this is typically credit deflation. I liked the gift and it's all good.

However, I felt she knew she was bringing something cheap so she does not owe me anything psychologically. She could mentally erase what she would owe me, which is more than a 4 euros gift. Even symbolically speaking as the gift was not tailored for me. It was a generic gift if you will.

My mistake was to say to my friend: "it's all good I enjoyed keeping your cats".

This is true, I love cats. However it makes it look as he was rendering ME a service.

Of course, Lucio there was an element of win-win there. But overall it took me time and energy to take care of the cats

He's quite a good friend. That being said I already had this experience in the past. People give you a small gift (that you don't even like) to make up for a big service. Especially coming from the manipulative type.

So when he will bring me a gift from his holiday, you know what I'm going to say:

My pleasure, I know you would do the same for me.

This is a very interesting, somewhat common and challenging situation, and I agree that's a case of credit deflation (could generally be accidental). How could we make the one trying to make up a value imbalance aware of the fact, that this is not really fair? Quite challenging.

An idea - ask them about the gift in depth - ideally right after you told a few funny stories about the cats or whatever you had to handle:

"Thanks, im curious, what is the story behind this bottle?"

=> You want to know why they picked this particular bottle of oil as a value exchange for this situation and you specifically.
If there is a good reason, you now give them the opportunity to tell you about it.

And if it is a cheap and common supermarket grade bottle of oil, they will have problems to answer this question and probably be a bit uncomfortable - and ideally be made aware that this was not a fair exchange (if you have any ideas to make it even more clear, please share).

And all we did was to shine a spotlight on the gift after talking about our part of the exchange (it should be established as a kind of exchange though).
As usual we should avoid any passive aggressiveness in the inquiry though, but instead be honestly curious, as you could be mistaken and possibly undervaluing their gift at first glance.

Again, please critizice this if you find it flawed!

Ideally solving this in advance:

Maybe there are ways to setting this up from the start or while they're still away.
For example you could show interest in a specific type of thing from that region were they're at, and they could get an idea of what to bring you back - and don't have to come up with something themselves.

This is another example where I would have struggles to ask for something back directly, and think the indirect asking back is more smooth, because it's less explicit and calculative about the value exchange.

Quote from John Freeman on February 27, 2022, 4:49 pm

Soon I'm going to keep my friend's cats for 2 weeks while they're on holiday. So this is kind of a big service to him from my POV as I'm quite busy.

I know his GF is going to bring me some little bottle of oil from holiday as a reciprocity token. That's what she did last time when I kept them for a week-end.

She's quite the manipulative type and this is typically credit deflation. I liked the gift and it's all good.

However, I felt she knew she was bringing something cheap so she does not owe me anything psychologically. She could mentally erase what she would owe me, which is more than a 4 euros gift. Even symbolically speaking as the gift was not tailored for me. It was a generic gift if you will.

My mistake was to say to my friend: "it's all good I enjoyed keeping your cats".

This is true, I love cats. However it makes it look as he was rendering ME a service.

Of course, Lucio there was an element of win-win there. But overall it took me time and energy to take care of the cats

He's quite a good friend. That being said I already had this experience in the past. People give you a small gift (that you don't even like) to make up for a big service. Especially coming from the manipulative type.

So when he will bring me a gift from his holiday, you know what I'm going to say:

My pleasure, I know you would do the same for me.

This is a very interesting, somewhat common and challenging situation, and I agree that's a case of credit deflation (could generally be accidental). How could we make the one trying to make up a value imbalance aware of the fact, that this is not really fair? Quite challenging.

An idea - ask them about the gift in depth - ideally right after you told a few funny stories about the cats or whatever you had to handle:

"Thanks, im curious, what is the story behind this bottle?"

=> You want to know why they picked this particular bottle of oil as a value exchange for this situation and you specifically.
If there is a good reason, you now give them the opportunity to tell you about it.

And if it is a cheap and common supermarket grade bottle of oil, they will have problems to answer this question and probably be a bit uncomfortable - and ideally be made aware that this was not a fair exchange (if you have any ideas to make it even more clear, please share).

And all we did was to shine a spotlight on the gift after talking about our part of the exchange (it should be established as a kind of exchange though).
As usual we should avoid any passive aggressiveness in the inquiry though, but instead be honestly curious, as you could be mistaken and possibly undervaluing their gift at first glance.

Again, please critizice this if you find it flawed!

Ideally solving this in advance:

Maybe there are ways to setting this up from the start or while they're still away.
For example you could show interest in a specific type of thing from that region were they're at, and they could get an idea of what to bring you back - and don't have to come up with something themselves.

This is another example where I would have struggles to ask for something back directly, and think the indirect asking back is more smooth, because it's less explicit and calculative about the value exchange.

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Lucio Buffalmano@lucio

6,304 Posts

#6 · February 28, 2022, 3:28 pm

Quote from John Freeman on February 28, 2022, 6:13 am

Anyway, that explains my colleague’s reaction and why I dropped it as she was all over the place trying to find something of equal value to give me. It made me uneasy as well.

That's interesting, thank you for sharing that.

I think it's a fantastic example of how power moves "work" and affect people differently.

Less aware person: falls for it -"it works"-
More aware person: doesn't fall for it -thinks of you as a game player-

And we know that, in general, the higher you go, the more power-aware people you meet.

So even just purely out of self-interest and personal success, if you want to go places, you don't want to overdo the power moves.

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John Freeman@amerok

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#7 · February 28, 2022, 7:11 pm

I meant: being manipulative whereas I did not intend to.

I see your last answer now, Lucio: exactly. I did not intend to play a game. She’s a colleague I like and respect. This is why I dropped it.

This is another example where we think we can apply something we read and it can backfire. I certainly learned that with PUA! :p

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Lucio Buffalmano@lucio

6,304 Posts

#8 · March 1, 2022, 5:29 am

Quote from Anon on February 28, 2022, 1:03 pm

What you proposed John, could be reserved for relatively large amounts of value given (like the example you shared

Applying the concept of establishing given value in practice:

Small value given: Downplaying it or "My pleasure" => establishes: it's nothing - value pocket change so to speak

Medium value given: "Happy to help you!"* => establishes: I helped you.

Large value given: "My pleasure, I know you would've done the same for me." => establishes: I gave you a lot.

*(credit to Matthew, who used it in response to the judge-frame powermove "And that's why I like you" - which refocusses on the value received, and that should work in other situations as well)

And from the receivers end:

Small value received: "Thanks." / "Thank you."

Medium value received: "Thank you, I really appreciate your help!"

Large value received: "Wow, -Thank You- for doing this, this helped a lot!" maybe: "I will try to come up with something to give you something back / help you out as well!"

I like this.

And yes, with a large value given then it makes more sense.

Some other options include:

I'm going to help you because I know it means a lot to you

= I know this is saving your ass, so don't even think to pretend it's peanuts

I realize this means a lot to you. It's not easy for me, but I'll try my best

= This is important to you, and it cost me. And it's not even sure I'll manage, so win me over. And if I do... You owe me

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Lucio Buffalmano@lucio

6,304 Posts

#9 · March 1, 2022, 5:33 am

Quote from Anon on February 28, 2022, 1:12 pm

An idea - ask them about the gift in depth - ideally right after you told a few funny stories about the cats or whatever you had to handle:

"Thanks, im curious, what is the story behind this bottle?"

=> You want to know why they picked this particular bottle of oil as a value exchange for this situation and you specifically.
If there is a good reason, you now give them the opportunity to tell you about it.

And if it is a cheap and common supermarket grade bottle of oil, they will have problems to answer this question and probably be a bit uncomfortable - and ideally be made aware that this was not a fair exchange (if you have any ideas to make it even more clear, please share).

And all we did was to shine a spotlight on the gift after talking about our part of the exchange (it should be established as a kind of exchange though).
As usual we should avoid any passive aggressiveness in the inquiry though, but instead be honestly curious, as you could be mistaken and possibly undervaluing their gift at first glance.

Again, please critizice this if you find it flawed!

Nice next-level Machiavellian plotting :).

In some articles on this website we refer to something similar as "trojan questions".

Such as, question where you already know the answer is not going to be what you expect and/or positive.

So whenever they'll answer, they'll themselves devalue the product/deal.
And then you can thread-expand on it accordingly -ie.: "oh, I was thinking it was something special or something ahaha, no worries".

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Anon@anonymous_user

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#10 · March 1, 2022, 10:32 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 1, 2022, 5:29 am

Some other options include:

I'm going to help you because I know it means a lot to you

= I know this is saving your ass, so don't even think to pretend it's peanuts

I realize this means a lot to you. It's not easy for me, but I'll try my best

= This is important to you, and it cost me. And it's not even sure I'll manage, so win me over. And if I do... You owe me

Thank you! This filled in some blanks I still had.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 1, 2022, 5:33 am

Nice next-level Machiavellian plotting :).

In some articles on this website we refer to something similar as "trojan questions".

Such as, question where you already know the answer is not going to be what you expect and/or positive.

So whenever they'll answer, they'll themselves devalue the product/deal.
And then you can thread-expand on it accordingly -ie.: "oh, I was thinking it was something special or something ahaha, no worries".

Always good to generalize the concept for ease of remembering and application.

But yeah it has been a while since I've gone through PU and the PowerDefinitions - maybe it's time to refresh.

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