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Is this person trying to Gaslight me?

#11 · March 1, 2023, 12:21 am

Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:57 am
Thank you for the thank you, Maverick!
Personally, I would just tell her something like:
Why don't you drive since you're so knowledgeable, Aunt? This way I can see if you make any mistakes, and tell you. You know, everyone can benefit from improving, not just me...
Or maybe less intense (and probably also a better, higher congruency straight-talk solution compared to whatever I suggested before in this thread):
You know, Aunt: I like driving; and I like seeing you and talking to you.
But I'm finding that this combination of driving while talking to you is making what should be two pleasant things somewhat unpleasant.
So, I'd appreciate if you just relaxed and enjoyed the scenery.
And if that's not an option for you, then I suppose it's best if we stop driving together in the near future.

Boom!!

Hi Bel, these are awesome ideas, the first one flips the dynamic back on her, I love it, would be interesting to know how she would handle the same thing being done to her. The second one politely tells her to shut it.

Thanks Bel

Kavalier and B have reacted to this post.

#12 · March 1, 2023, 12:39 am

Quote from Maverick on March 1, 2023, 12:39 am
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 3:50 am
I was originally going to write "not the best example of gaslighting, but definitely a power move".
And then Bel's answer took it to a whole 'other level -hats off, Bel, you went above and beyond what I may have originally contributed here!-.
P.S.: good lesson learned. If someone is bothered enough by a single instance, it may be the sign that (subconsciously) it's the trend that bothers him most.
And yes, that is true, while with a "good enough person" that would "only" be an annoying teacher frame / one-up, if it's a trend, if it's always "something new" to correct you about, and if they often try to come up with a twist or reframe why they're right and they never apologize, then it's textbook gaslighting.
This same mistake seems quite nitpicking -if not already "forced"-.
I personally wouldn't even be sure if 2 hands on the wheel really make that big a difference.
In most stick-shift EU car one hand on the gear shifter may even allow for a quicker emergency stop as one may also use the engine braking power.
Hi Lucio,
I agree Bel's epic answer addressed the underlying issue, I usually file away power moves in my head and treat it as a pattern if they repeat, my Aunt is a repeat offender,she nitpicks on the smallest issue and one of her favorite lines is to say "you need to learn how to walk before you can run" by which she means to say unless you can do the small things right, you can't do the large things, which I found to be partly right and partly incorrect, it's a black & white thinking, the world doesn't usually run in absolutes, I have meant to tell this is to her, but my gut feeling tells me she ain't ready for the big talk.
I agree one hand on gear shifter is comforting, quicker and easier to up-shift/downshift.

Handling it: the "right after" and your attitude matter more than the technique you choose
As for checking it, great answers already by Ali and Bel and many techniques apply.
Overall, I think it's more important to flag it and surface and how you handle what happens after + your attitude, than what you say exactly on the first "power move check".
Mindset: she's already ruining the relationship, and I'm being disempowered
On this one here:
Quote from Maverick on February 28, 2023, 12:57 am
(...) Another option I have is to go meta and call her out.I find this risky as it could jeopardize our relationship
Thank You for the great analysis and ideas Bel
Mav
A different point of view for view:
SHE is already jeopardizing the relationship by destroying the social capital between you two.
And you're also on the losing end.
That should be good enough motivation to do something.
Direct callingly it + mirror role play to make your point
Here's a brief good rapport-maintaining approach to going meta:
You: Dear aunt, I think you give me many of these suggestions with my and our best interest in mind and for that, I'm truly grateful.
At the same time, please let me share that it's certainly possible to overdo something good and it's a bit annoying when someone tells you what to do a little bit too often, and a little bit too condescendingly
That's already enough for the first check.
She'll probably push back, but doesn't matter what she says, you got your own strategy to follow.
Personally, whatever she replies, I'd then like to use a mirror technique to make her feel the same:
Her: (whatever she says)
You: don't reply that to me!
Trust me more!
Keep more quiet or you distract me! Lower the AC output! Make this, make that! (<--- you're mimicking and exaggerating the tasking here to make your point of how annoying it is)
How does that feel to you? (<--- now you switch back to normal talk)
Does that feel a bit annoying? It does, right? Well, that's how I also feel when someone always tell me what to do
The key is to make your role play dominant and obnoxious, ideally similar to her style.
The power of this approach is that it shows rather than tell.
I used it many times, and worked great.
Wow!!
This didn't cross my mind, give her a taste of her medicine but in a socially adroit manner, I will file this away for future use too. With her I know she will want to have the last word in, if she can't she is gonna pretend to be the victim here, by saying "I was just trying to look out for you, I always have the best intentions for you..you don't doubt it do you?" With what you suggested, it will be harder for her to play that particular card.
Thanks Lucio

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 3:50 am
I was originally going to write "not the best example of gaslighting, but definitely a power move".
And then Bel's answer took it to a whole 'other level -hats off, Bel, you went above and beyond what I may have originally contributed here!-.
P.S.: good lesson learned. If someone is bothered enough by a single instance, it may be the sign that (subconsciously) it's the trend that bothers him most.
And yes, that is true, while with a "good enough person" that would "only" be an annoying teacher frame / one-up, if it's a trend, if it's always "something new" to correct you about, and if they often try to come up with a twist or reframe why they're right and they never apologize, then it's textbook gaslighting.
This same mistake seems quite nitpicking -if not already "forced"-.
I personally wouldn't even be sure if 2 hands on the wheel really make that big a difference.
In most stick-shift EU car one hand on the gear shifter may even allow for a quicker emergency stop as one may also use the engine braking power.

Hi Lucio,

I agree Bel's epic answer addressed the underlying issue, I usually file away power moves in my head and treat it as a pattern if they repeat, my Aunt is a repeat offender,she nitpicks on the smallest issue and one of her favorite lines is to say "you need to learn how to walk before you can run" by which she means to say unless you can do the small things right, you can't do the large things, which I found to be partly right and partly incorrect, it's a black & white thinking, the world doesn't usually run in absolutes, I have meant to tell this is to her, but my gut feeling tells me she ain't ready for the big talk.

I agree one hand on gear shifter is comforting, quicker and easier to up-shift/downshift.

Handling it: the "right after" and your attitude matter more than the technique you choose
As for checking it, great answers already by Ali and Bel and many techniques apply.
Overall, I think it's more important to flag it and surface and how you handle what happens after + your attitude, than what you say exactly on the first "power move check".
Mindset: she's already ruining the relationship, and I'm being disempowered
On this one here:
Quote from Maverick on February 28, 2023, 12:57 am
(...) Another option I have is to go meta and call her out.I find this risky as it could jeopardize our relationship
Thank You for the great analysis and ideas Bel
Mav
A different point of view for view:
SHE is already jeopardizing the relationship by destroying the social capital between you two.
And you're also on the losing end.
That should be good enough motivation to do something.
Direct callingly it + mirror role play to make your point
Here's a brief good rapport-maintaining approach to going meta:
You: Dear aunt, I think you give me many of these suggestions with my and our best interest in mind and for that, I'm truly grateful.
At the same time, please let me share that it's certainly possible to overdo something good and it's a bit annoying when someone tells you what to do a little bit too often, and a little bit too condescendingly
That's already enough for the first check.
She'll probably push back, but doesn't matter what she says, you got your own strategy to follow.
Personally, whatever she replies, I'd then like to use a mirror technique to make her feel the same:
Her: (whatever she says)
You: don't reply that to me!
Trust me more!
Keep more quiet or you distract me! Lower the AC output! Make this, make that! (<--- you're mimicking and exaggerating the tasking here to make your point of how annoying it is)
How does that feel to you? (<--- now you switch back to normal talk)
Does that feel a bit annoying? It does, right? Well, that's how I also feel when someone always tell me what to do
The key is to make your role play dominant and obnoxious, ideally similar to her style.
The power of this approach is that it shows rather than tell.
I used it many times, and worked great.

Wow!!

This didn't cross my mind, give her a taste of her medicine but in a socially adroit manner, I will file this away for future use too. With her I know she will want to have the last word in, if she can't she is gonna pretend to be the victim here, by saying "I was just trying to look out for you, I always have the best intentions for you..you don't doubt it do you?" With what you suggested, it will be harder for her to play that particular card.

Thanks Lucio

Lucio Buffalmano, Kavalier and B have reacted to this post.

#13 · March 1, 2023, 12:45 am

Quote from Kavalier on February 28, 2023, 6:07 am
Hey guys
Plenty of good answers here! Just to add one more option: task her to instruct you later
Aunt May, I really appreciate you giving me tips on how to improve my driving. But right now you are distracting me, so I'll kindly ask you to stop. Do you really want to help me? The way you can help me is: please, write down a list of the "mistakes" you observe and send me. I promise to take a very good look at what you wrote and take the corrective measures where I see fit.
If she insists on something like "as long as it's only your life, I wouldn't care so much about schooling, there is another life at stake here, so I will school you", you can always answer with:
Well, aunt, I don't agree with you that your life is in danger and I'm not planning to change my way of driving. If you are genuinely afraid, what I can do for you is to leave you at the nearest place where you can safely get a cab. Will that work for you?
Say those in a very calm, even caring tone of voice.
The idea here is that you validate her feelings, but the alternatives you offer her will mean, for her, a lot of work. She's now cornered because it's either do a lot of work to defend her frame, or confirm that she was just nitpicking. It'll likely make her stop in order not to be in this situation again.

Hi Kavalier,

Thank You for the answer, this idea never crossed my mind, I want to use it next time and see how my aunt reacts to it, there is a high chance that she might not be okay with the tasking and stop trying to school me. Lol I can see my aunt squirming to get out of the corner she might put herself in with the last answer you suggested.

Mav

Lucio Buffalmano, Kavalier and B have reacted to this post.