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Looks have no relation to date's enjoyment: insight from "Dataclysm"

When two people meet for a date:

the two people’s looks had almost no effect on whether they had a good time. No matter which person was better-looking or by how much—even in cases where one blind-dater was a knockout and the other rather homely—the percent of people giving the dates a positive rating was constant. Attractiveness didn’t matter.

This is not how users behave online.
Online people still care about looks. It's just that looks didn't seem to affect much how people rated their in-person experience.

The author sums it as such:

In short, people appear to be heavily preselecting online for something that, once they sit down in person, doesn't seem important to them


The author seems to imply that looks don't matter based on how people rated the date.

However, that's very simplistic in my opinion.

The rating of the date might have little correlation to what matters far more than "enjoyment ratings": how many people meet again, how many have sex, how many enter into more or less significant relationships.

Still, this was a very interesting finding.
I just wished the author had gone to the bottom of this, instead of stopping at the first layer of analysis.

 

Stef and selffriend have reacted to this post.
Stefselffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Agree! Look definitely matters a lot. Does this research focus on guy's look or girl's look?

The author's point seems make sense at first glance. I know some handsome guys consistently get invited by girls. If you are not good looking, the date might not even exist. The date exists because you already passed some of the minimal threshold of all of your traits combined.

On the other hand, male's intrinsic desire can be solely driven by look. Female is less driven by look but still. When I was young and taking care of my look, there were girls trying to kiss me on the first dates. Now I am old and care less about my look. Despite having higher social status and material wealth, no one tries to kiss me on the first date now, sad...

Permission to be frank: what's sad here is the defeatist mentality, selfoe.

Double permission to be frank: this is not the website or community for that -maybe time to make a post on values / mindsets of the community-.

Instead of "sad":

  1. Shape up
  2. Start taking care of yourself

Also, women don't usually try to kiss men whom they consider far ahead in power / dominance than they are, as they tend to maintain some more distance.

Women are more likely to make their move first on guys they consider at the same level, or below.

Stef and selffriend have reacted to this post.
Stefselffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I think if a guy is too good looking that may intimidate a lot of girls, if at the same time that guy is timid, girls will feel there most be something very wrong about him, as good looking people is expected to be confident and when they are not, specially ly males, they may pay an extra penalty.

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selffriend
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 4, 2021, 5:57 am

Permission to be frank: what's sad here is the defeatist mentality, selfoe.

Double permission to be frank: this is not the website or community for that -maybe time to make a post on values / mindsets of the community-.

Instead of "sad":

  1. Shape up
  2. Start taking care of yourself

Also, women don't usually try to kiss men whom they consider far ahead in power / dominance than they are, as they tend to maintain some more distance.

Women are more likely to make their move first on guys they consider at the same level, or below.

I agree with your opinions and suggestions. You have a great, optimistic mindset, which I am trying to practice.

But I disagree with any tentative forum rule which excludes the human feeling of sadness. Permission to be frank:

  1. Everyone feels sad sometimes. Trying to hide things is a sign of low value man (though, I respect low value man equally as high value man like you)
  2. Recognizing or expressing the feeling of sadness does not equal to give up or not trying to improve. In fact, recognizing sadness or failure motivates oneself to become better
  3. Sadness is a natural feeling which is not equal to failure
  4. Even if you failed, it does not necessarily imply a defeatist mindset
  5. Even if you have a defeatist mindset, as long as you are not attacking or forcing others, you have the freedom of speech to express this mindset
  6. Forcing people to only express positive emotion while banning truth telling or expressing negative emotion seem like a common measure of an authoritative governance

On the other hand, I conditionally agree that people should be encouraged, in a "power through" manner, to be positive and optimistic when self-reflecting or writing about themselves.

Note that the original reply was to support your topic with an example rather than self-reflecting.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 4, 2021, 5:16 am

The author seems to imply that looks don't matter based on how people rated the date.

However, that's very simplistic in my opinion.

The rating of the date might have little correlation to what matters far more than "enjoyment ratings": how many people meet again, how many have sex, how many enter into more or less significant relationships.

Still, this was a very interesting finding.
I just wished the author had gone to the bottom of this, instead of stopping at the first layer of analysis.

Thanks for sharing this observation.

I'm thinking about how he could have done this better.
Maybe ask a few questions when each user signs up:

  • What would you like to get out of this dating app? Give a few common options
    • Have more sex
    • Find a suitable partner
    • Find out more about your preferences
  • At different milestones (after getting 10 matches) or time intervals (1 week, 1 month, 3 months), ask on a scale of 1-5:
    • Have you gotten what you wanted out of this app?

Then he could plot these satisfaction scores against the ratings on looks.
Now, these scores are based on the more concrete goals of the users.
Rather than the enjoyment scores based on fleeting emotions.

Maybe the Author Has Less Interest in Maximising Actual Outcomes

There may be a chance that the author consciously or subconsciously looks to maximise metrics that will attract new users to his app.
And also metrics that will get people to continue using the app.

If he maximises some of the actual metrics that people care about, people may not come back to his app.
People in satisfying relationships would be less likely to use his app.
People who understand their preferences very well may use his app to explore less.
Instead, they may go to specific social places to mingle with these people.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from selffriend on April 4, 2021, 7:10 am

I disagree with any tentative forum rule which excludes the human feeling of sadness. Permission to be frank:

  1. Everyone feels sad sometimes. Trying to hide things is a sign of low value man (though, I respect low value man equally as high value man like you)
  2. Recognizing or expressing the feeling of sadness does not equal to give up or not trying to improve. In fact, recognizing sadness or failure motivates oneself to become better
  3. Sadness is a natural feeling which is not equal to failure
  4. Even if you failed, it does not necessarily imply a defeatist mindset
  5. Even if you have a defeatist mindset, as long as you are not attacking or forcing others, you have the freedom of speech to express this mindset
  6. Forcing people to only express positive emotion while banning truth telling or expressing negative emotion seem like a common measure of an authoritative governance

On the other hand, I conditionally agree that people should be encouraged, in a "power through" manner, to be positive and optimistic when self-reflecting or writing about themselves.

Note that the original reply was to support your topic with an example rather than self-reflecting.

OFF-TOPIC

Cheers for politely and effectively disagreeing, and thank you for speaking up to it.

Notice I expressly avoided the word "rule", but it'd be more like a "code" with values and mindsets.

A few notes on this topic:

  • How you end things matters: ending on a negative is different than putting it in the middle and frames your whole communication
  • How you modulate things matters: if you had said "sad, in a way, but now I found this place so things might change again :D", very different, right?
  • Positive frame of "cool I had" VS "sad I don't have anymore": I used to jump tables that reached my belly button. I don't do it anymore. Rather than saying "sad I don't", why not thinking "cool I could do that"
  • How you think matters deeply: mindsets, approaches and frames might be far more important than power dynamics and social strategies. That's why I'd rather intervene strongly, than feebly -and I might sometimes overdo it-
  • How anyone writes affects how the community thinks: to keep a "can-do" attitude, "can't do" attitude must be limited, because it's like bad weed: it crowds out the good seeds we want more of

Power through is far better, in the vast majority of the times.

As for everything, it's circumstantial.

What lessons do kids remember the most?

It's when an otherwise supportive parent slapped once when they did something really wrong.
That lesson, will stay for a lifetime.

Of course, this is a very different scenario.

You're not a kid, but a cool guy.
I'm not your parent, but a guy working on himself just like you are.

Still, we are also here to learn in a way, so in a way, we're all kids.
If I see a potentially harmful mindset or attitude and can use a stronger reminder that is more effective to you and the community, I might go for it.

That being said, I appreciate your feedback and I think you make a great point.
Sometimes I might exaggerate or write too quickly, and it's good to have people like you who can effectively tell me to "chill out" :).

So if I offended: I say sorry to you, that wasn't my intention, and I hope you can forgive me :).

OFF-TOPIC

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on April 4, 2021, 7:44 am

I'm thinking about how he could have done this better.

All of them would have improved the outcome.

I'm thinking of an equally effective question, that would have been quicker to implement.
Instead of asking "how much you enjoyed" he could have asked:

  • Are you going to see this person again?

The exact same level of effort required to answer, but a much more meaningful piece of data to work with.

His bias -if any-, in my opinion might not be so much to lead people to use the app more, but to come up with a cool finding that people loved to share.

That's too bad he stopped at that superficial level of analysis because it's true that looks probably matter far less than people think.
But to make that message strong and valid, you should support it with stronger evidence.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 4, 2021, 5:35 pm
Quote from selffriend on April 4, 2021, 7:10 am

I disagree with any tentative forum rule which excludes the human feeling of sadness. Permission to be frank:

  1. Everyone feels sad sometimes. Trying to hide things is a sign of low value man (though, I respect low value man equally as high value man like you)
  2. Recognizing or expressing the feeling of sadness does not equal to give up or not trying to improve. In fact, recognizing sadness or failure motivates oneself to become better
  3. Sadness is a natural feeling which is not equal to failure
  4. Even if you failed, it does not necessarily imply a defeatist mindset
  5. Even if you have a defeatist mindset, as long as you are not attacking or forcing others, you have the freedom of speech to express this mindset
  6. Forcing people to only express positive emotion while banning truth telling or expressing negative emotion seem like a common measure of an authoritative governance

On the other hand, I conditionally agree that people should be encouraged, in a "power through" manner, to be positive and optimistic when self-reflecting or writing about themselves.

Note that the original reply was to support your topic with an example rather than self-reflecting.

OFF-TOPIC

Cheers for politely and effectively disagreeing, and thank you for speaking up to it.

Notice I expressly avoided the word "rule", but it'd be more like a "code" with values and mindsets.

A few notes on this topic:

  • How you end things matters: ending on a negative is different than putting it in the middle and frames your whole communication
  • How you modulate things matters: if you had said "sad, in a way, but now I found this place so things might change again :D", very different, right?
  • Positive frame of "cool I had" VS "sad I don't have anymore": I used to jump tables that reached my belly button. I don't do it anymore. Rather than saying "sad I don't", why not thinking "cool I could do that"
  • How you think matters deeply: mindsets, approaches and frames might be far more important than power dynamics and social strategies. That's why I'd rather intervene strongly, than feebly -and I might sometimes overdo it-
  • How anyone writes affects how the community thinks: to keep a "can-do" attitude, "can't do" attitude must be limited, because it's like bad weed: it crowds out the good seeds we want more of

Power through is far better, in the vast majority of the times.

As for everything, it's circumstantial.

What lessons do kids remember the most?

It's when an otherwise supportive parent slapped once when they did something really wrong.
That lesson, will stay for a lifetime.

Of course, this is a very different scenario.

You're not a kid, but a cool guy.
I'm not your parent, but a guy working on himself just like you are.

Still, we are also here to learn in a way, so in a way, we're all kids.
If I see a potentially harmful mindset or attitude and can use a stronger reminder that is more effective to you and the community, I might go for it.

That being said, I appreciate your feedback and I think you make a great point.
Sometimes I might exaggerate or write too quickly, and it's good to have people like you who can effectively tell me to "chill out" :).

So if I offended: I say sorry to you, that wasn't my intention, and I hope you can forgive me :).

OFF-TOPIC

Hi Lucio, I replied in another thread as it is off-topic:

https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/lucius-journal-take-action/#postid-7274

No need to say sorry at all. I am deeply indebt because you helped me. I always understand that your intention is always good: any reasonable king love his people (forgive me if this metaphor is not good).

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Lucio Buffalmano
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