Intentional forgetting, delaying and faking not receiving e-mails and phone calls; "I'm sorry" power move

Quote from Bel on November 19, 2021, 5:46 pm

A final thought: it seems to me that initially she was trying to imply that my behavior and escalation was unnecessary. I think I tried to imply that it was the only way I could go given the circumstances. Maybe mid-call my stance picked some pace, because by mid-call she started justifying herself.

My train of thoughts here: so was it, overall, a big "reciprocal justification call"? Maybe there was a better way to go in terms of more power on my part. And my apologies for not answering were surely out of place, she in fact did not apologize for not getting back to me on the invoice. And probably they depotentiate my possible future stance of not answering her calls. Because, let's be real: where is it written that I have to answer you after you treated me that way? Maybe there was a way of communicating this more clearly?

On the other hand, on some other level, maybe my stance was correct in that I ultimately played on her the same game she has played on me so far (i.e. "I'm sorry I couldn't answer; I'm sorry I forgot; I'm sorry I'm busy; I'm sorry I had problems"). So maybe this was correct stance to keep in this case, to convey the message: "You're not the only one who knows how to play these games". And what seems justification is, in reality, a correct stance in this case (of getting back to a passive-aggressive person?).

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on November 19, 2021, 6:05 pm

Thank you for the update and for writing out the whole call.

As Lucio advised, I think this can be a great learning experience.

I may not have the full context, so I may not understand what's going on fully and may misinterpret some matters.
Here are some of my thoughts.

My Thoughts About the Interaction

She was convincing in reframing her behavior as due to her personal circumstances, so much that at a certain point I started thinking if my escalation was really needed; however, I still think that her "intentional forgetting" of my emails, which I did not raise as a point of conversation, can only be explained as a power move on her part.

Yeah, I think she's really manipulative.

Me: I did it because of the e-mail problems you had in the past, and because when I sent you the invoice I got no answer: I thought you hadn't received it.

Her: I am sorry you had problems, are they over? If I can be of any help...

Me: No, thank you, I will do fine. And I apologize for not being able to answer you those two weeks.

This was a really manipulative flame flipping from her.
You pointed out her email problems and her not responding to your invoice.
She flipped it around and framed that as your problem.

And also "are they over?" and "If I can be of any help..." are patronising in my opinion.

• are they over? - frames you as being the cause of the problem and not being able to deal with "minor" issues
• If I can be of any help... - she frames you as needing help. It cements and further pushes the blame on you

I think it's important to hit back or assert her:

Me: As you said, we are grownups and colleagues.
I have helped you with your colleague's work and invoice.
It's your responsibility to help me settle the payment from the colleague.

There were a lot of manipulative excuses and blaming too.

Her: So, the point here is that I did not do the work and cannot re-invoice my colleague, I only acted as a point of contact. If I reinvoiced my colleague, I would reinvoice him for work I did not do. I only faciliated the exchange because you and my colleague did not know each other.

She should be thanking you for helping out her colleague which you have completely no connection.
Instead, she frames herself as a point of contact facilitating the exchange.

If she was really interested in facilitating the exchange, she would make sure to have a good introduction between you and her colleague.
Then, you can communicate directly with her colleague on work and payment matters.
Instead, she plays the middleman so she can play these delay and blame games.

Her: Yes, those two weeks I had problems as well, I was involved in a personal situation and couldn't deal with the invoice then. And I didn't want to write you, because if you were angry with me you could have used it against me. That's why I asked you if you were planning to come by my office. And yesterday I had another problem and was irritated for another thing, and when you sent me that message about me paying I was caught by surprise.

Another manipulation where she's framing your assertion as angrily taking advantage of her.
In reality, she didn't want to write to you because she didn't want to be held accountable.
That's why she wants you to come to her office.
The verbal talk will have no track record.

Also, as you have advised, her personal issues are just excuses to play delay games.

Her: And if that day that you asked for my help with the criminal case of your client I seemed abrupt and ended the call suddenly, it was because I couldn't discuss criminal issues on the phone due to my personal situation, and you were insisting.

I think she brought this in as a distraction to frame you as being demanding.
Also, what has her personal situation got to do with dropping some advice?

Here, it would probably be best to tell her to leave this to another conversation:

Me: Let's talk about that another time.
I want to focus on the payment.

Towards the end of the call,

Her: I am relieved you are not angry with me, because when you stopped answering for two weeks I didn't understand what was happening.

Me: And I am happy we are resolving and clarifying this situation, which I think was caused by the fact that we both had personal problems at the same time and communication was interrupted. And again my apologies for my delay in answering on the phone.

Me: So how do we proceed here, if you don't want to send me e-mails how are you giving me the data for the invoice. Can't you just forward the invoice I sent you to your colleague?

Her: No, it's better not for tax reasons. By Monday I will send you the data, and if you then re-send me the invoice I will forward it to my colleague and make sure it gets paid. If you want I will correct it myself. If you hadn't called me by today I had already decided to pay you your invoice in any case and lose the money if necessary.

Me: No, I can resend you the invoice, no problem. OK, sounds good, thank you.

In my opinion, the first statement is a manipulative, guilt-tripping remark.
She framed herself as the victim and highlighted "why you didn't answer her for 2 weeks".

She managed to make you feel guilty and apologise.
After sensing that your guilt, she further framed herself as "magnanimous" by saying she will pay your invoice anyways and lose the money if necessary.
She kind of knew that you would backtrack.
And when you backtracked and proposed to send the invoice, she successfully pushed the problem back to you.

She realised that aggression and dominance would not work, so she switched to manipulation and guilt-tripping.

This was why I felt that writing out the non-negotiables and your leverages would be helpful to prepare for the call.
However, I may be wrong here as you understand the situation best.

She did say that she would make sure that my invoice gets paid. I did not want to insist on her paying my invoice as a matter of principle, as I felt she was backtracking a bit on her previous condescending behavior, and her worry that I would escalate reassured me. And legally I always have the option of going back and insisting she pays if things don't pan out. But, I still note, she has not yet given me the data to reissue the invoice and postponed again to Monday. So maybe here (my main objective) I was a bit weak. On the other hand, now I can hold her to her word and escalate again more strongly if she doesn't help me get paid or doesn't contact me by Monday. And the fact that I did not write but agree in voice of course leaves trace of my previous stance about wanting to be paid by her.

With that being said as you advised, I feel you managed to get her to be accountable.
She did agree to help make sure that the invoice gets paid.

Let's see if she plays the game of her colleague not sending you the data on Monday.

Her Colleague's Contact

Probably another trick up her sleeve.
Did she give any reason from the get-go that she wouldn't like to put you in direct contact with her colleague?
I feel that it's very weird to keep working through a middleman.

The above are my thoughts from a third party.
The situation seems complex so I may be misunderstanding some parts of the context.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on November 19, 2021, 6:15 pm

A final thought: it seems to me that initially she was trying to imply that my behavior and escalation was unnecessary. I think I tried to imply that it was the only way I could go given the circumstances. Maybe mid-call my stance picked some pace, because by mid-call she started justifying herself.

She's being manipulative.
She frames your fair assertion as an unneeded escalation.
With that, she started to use shaming and guilt-tripping to control the interaction.

For example,

• You didn't answer my calls for 2 weeks
  Tries to guilt you for ignoring her
• And you also sent me a certified letter, which you don't do with a colleague.
  Twists your assertion into being demanding and unreasonable.
  Then proceeds to shame you.
• And if that day that you asked for my help with the criminal case of your client I seemed abrupt and ended the call suddenly, it was because I couldn't discuss criminal issues on the phone due to my personal situation, and you were insisting.
  You were unreasonable. I had personal issues and you demanded me to help you.
  Another point she brought up to make you feel guilty.
• I am relieved you are not angry with me, because when you stopped answering for two weeks I didn't understand what was happening.
  Guilt-trips you again for getting angry and not answering her for 2 weeks.
  She totally understands what's happening.
  She needs to pay you.

On a personal note, I have not handled a lot of these manipulations very well myself when dealing with lawyers.
It's very challenging to work through things when you are personally involved.

Let's see what happens on Monday and if she sends the data over.

Quote from Bel on November 19, 2021, 6:17 pm

Thank you Matthew,

so I did not handle it well. I should have pushed back more strongly, i.e. by saying explicitly that she was playing games and that I expected the invoice to be paid soon, and did not care about what happened so far? Probably I should have been more direct when she started accusing me.

As to the triangulation: it is clear to me that the two were playing games, since he is her boyfriend. But, I actually now prefer that she is the one to receive my invoice and forward it to her colleague, because my frame is that it is her responsibility to get the invoice paid: I do not want to chase her colleague, responsibility is on her.

Me not being in direct contact with her colleague is a fact since when I started the work. She simply acted that way (i.e. forwarded me the e-mails of her colleague directed to her), and I couldn't change this fact. I think a lot of my problems stem from my power-unawareness when I first met people, it is very difficult for me to reassert.

Still, since she said she would "make sure the invoice is paid", I feel I have the option of getting back to her strongly if she does not follow up. I think, in a way, my frame that "it is your responsibility to get me paid" held.

And as to her manipulations, I have to admit some of them flew under my radar while talking. Especially the one where she said she was going to pay me anyway, and the one were she faked being worried for my situation.

As to these:

• You didn't answer my calls for 2 weeks
  Tries to guilt you for ignoring her

• And you also sent me a certified letter, which you don't do with a colleague.
  Twists your assertion into being demanding and unreasonable.Then proceeds to shame you.

• And if that day that you asked for my help with the criminal case of your client I seemed abrupt and ended the call suddenly, it was because I couldn't discuss criminal issues on the phone due to my personal situation, and you were insisting.
  You were unreasonable. I had personal issues and you demanded me to help you.Another point she brought up to make you feel guilty.

• I am relieved you are not angry with me, because when you stopped answering for two weeks I didn't understand what was happening.

I understand these were unfair statements, and I tried to push back, don't know how I could have handled it better.

How can you really deal with a person who pulls 37 manipulative statements in a 10 minute phone call? The truth is that you deal with people like her by not dealing with them. So my biggest mistake was in getting involved. However, at the time everyone around me was like her.

Finally, I think the real question here is this: did having this call worsen my situation, or advance my objective? Meaning, should I have calls like this in the near future or should I keep escalating via text/email in similar situations? Maybe she feels now she "got me back under control", and will get me paid to use me in the future (which I won't allow anyway)?

And another point: if next Monday she does not send me the data, and if then no one pays me by the end of the month, I feel I will in any case be justified in escalating via email and cutting off phone contact for good. And legally, the law gives me recourse against her as lawyer who charged me with the work, irrespectively of whether I reissue the invoice in her colleague's name or not.

Quote from Bel on November 19, 2021, 9:05 pm

Just to thank you again Matthew, I reread your post and there are so many things I can start working on.

I think the correct frame here is the one you and Lucio and Kellvo mentioned, i.e. even if the call was a total disaster, it would have still been better to have had it to learn and improve for the future.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 20, 2021, 2:40 am

She "brought her full self" on that call :).

Her games were to be expected, and Matthew pointed them out very well.

But from a macro perspective, overall, I think it went great.

You avoided unneeded escalations and making an enemy (big win), you took steps to improve the relationship (another win) and you may (may) have gotten closer to getting paid (big win).

To me, the main goal here is:

Get paid, get out, without making an enemy. 
The sooner you do it, the better. Once you do it, you're out of that lower-power situation of having to chase the invoice and you're out of this, shall we say it, bitch's clutches.

Doing that requires some Machiavellianism and some of your own manipulative skills -not it even mostly to execute, but to understand-.
It doesn't come naturally to many -and that's where a website like this is helpful-.
But you're getting there.

Analyze all the games for learning, but at the same time don't over-worry about them and don't let them over-faze you.
Keep your eyes on the final goal.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 20, 2021, 2:55 am

Quote from Bel on November 19, 2021, 6:17 pm

And another point: if next Monday she does not send me the data, and if then no one pays me by the end of the month, I feel I will in any case be justified in escalating via email and cutting off phone contact for good. And legally, the law gives me recourse against her as lawyer who charged me with the work, irrespectively of whether I reissue the invoice in her colleague's name or not.

Here's an outline of a possible process if nothing happens on Monday:

1. Wait a few more days and then around Wednesday you email her / text her.
2. If still no contacts, text her again Friday morning.
3. If still not by Tuesday, directly say that "this was not your agreement, and you don't want to chase your invoice"
4. If still nothing for the full week, next Monday say that you're being forced to do something you don't want to do: legal recourse to have your invoice paid.

I'd personally never block her on the phone, and I'd still talk to her if she calls.

But then you stick to your guns.

You "yeah yeah" all her made-up issues, you say you "totally understand", you say "no problem for her power moves", you say "all good between you two", and then always go back "the only thing, now my invoice needs to be paid".
Broken record technique, "all good, all good, I just want to close this thing with the invoice payment" - "I'm glad you're well, let's pay this invoice and move on" - "I'm glad we're clarifying, let's pay this invoice and get to new work"... Etc. Etc.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on November 20, 2021, 4:35 am

I think you brought out the elephant in the room.
And there's no amount of talking that she can do to make the elephant disappear, i.e. she owes you payment.

The thing about phone calls and why lawyers love them is that it's non-committal.
She likes the phone call because she can change her words freely without leaving traces.

But the nature of the phone call makes things not written in stone.
So if you "fall" for some manipulation, there's no action, and you don't lose anything.

And you can be the one who summarises the call over email:

Dear (woman's name),

To summarise our call earlier, once you send over the data on Monday, I will send over the new invoice.
Thank you for also agreeing to make sure your colleague follows through on his part.

Regards,
Bel

Over email, highlight what she owes you and that she agreed to follow up with.
And also that you have done your part of the deal.

You can do email follow-ups for all the phone calls.

She can ignore you but then if things escalate to a legal dispute, she appears to be uncooperative while you have a written record in your favour.

If you follow up fast, the timestamps from the phone calls and emails would appear that you are the one working towards a resolution.

Quote from Bel on November 20, 2021, 10:27 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano

But from a macro perspective, overall, I think it went great.

You avoided unneeded escalations and making an enemy (big win), you took steps to improve the relationship (another win) and you may (may) have gotten closer to getting paid (big win).

Thank you Lucio,

your view gives me tranquillity.

Here's an outline of a possible process if nothing happens on Monday:

1. Wait a few more days and then around Wednesday you email her / text her.
2. If still no contacts, text her again Friday morning.
3. If still not by Tuesday, directly say that "this was not your agreement, and you don't want to chase your invoice"
4. If still nothing for the full week, next Monday say that you're being forced to do something you don't want to do: legal recourse to have your invoice paid.

I think I will be even more pressing, cut the steps and do the following:

a) if she sends me the data on Monday, I will send her a certified email immediately writing the following:

"Hi ..., I am enclosing the proforma invoice in your colleague's name as you requested. I would be really grateful to you if, since you entrusted me with this work and considering the time already passed since I issued it, you could cause the invoice to be settled asap as promised".

The "as you requested" and "you entrusted me" parts make it clear that I still reserve recourse against her, the other part puts more pressure on her and capitalizes on her promising to have the invoice paid.

b) if she does not send me the data on Monday, I will wait until Thursday, and send her this certified email:

"Hi ..., notwithstanding the reassurances you gave me on the 19th of November that my invoice would be paid soon, I did not receive anything yet. If you could please cause it to be paid within 10 days I would be really grateful".

In this case I will bypass her needing to send me the data entirely, since to me it's indifferent and it's her problem.

If she criticizes my use of certified email again, I will just reiterate on the phone that "I wanted to avoid emailing you, since you stated you had repeated problems with email".

I'd personally never block her on the phone, and I'd still talk to her if she calls.

But then you stick to your guns.

You "yeah yeah" all her made-up issues, you say you "totally understand", you say "no problem for her power moves", you say "all good between you two", and then always go back "the only thing, now my invoice needs to be paid".
Broken record technique, "all good, all good, I just want to close this thing with the invoice payment" - "I'm glad you're well, let's pay this invoice and move on" - "I'm glad we're clarifying, let's pay this invoice and get to new work"... Etc. Etc.

That's excellent. Like Matthew notes, I was thinking last night that, while of course she wants to use the phone to not leave trace, this is actually working better in my favor, since I am the one who is weaker on the phone, while the e-mail/whatsapp trail, the only one that can be used in a lawsuit, is in my favor so far. She of course knows this, and is starting to get scared (otherwise she wouldn't have revealed her weakness about not wanting me to use her writings against her).

So the strategy of escalating and being very firm via e-mail, while reassuring her on the phone, takes away her power to criticize me, and at the same time paints to a potential Judge a picture of me being a reasonable but firm professional who is facing unexplainable silence and games on her part. This way I could even start a lawsuit while apologizing on the phone that I had to do so :).

One more nasty frame she was trying to set on the call

She actually is starting to set the frame that, since the advice I may require on her is on criminal law, and you "don't talk about it on the phone", I will need to go to her office everytime I need her "help". Of course, on the other hand, civil law advice can be dealt with on the phone.

Very very nasty, but now indifferent to me since I already planned not having anything to do with her from now on.

Mistakes on her part

When she tried to manipulate me saying that she would have paid the invoice herself if necessary, she made a mistake. Now I can use that as a reserve argument against her (i.e. you admitted that you know you will need to pay if necessary, so please do).

When she justified her angry messages on her being already irritated for another reason, she reavealed that she knows I could use them against her in a lawsuit. And, for this reason, from now on it will be much more difficut for her to try to use anger against my email escalations.

When she said that she was worried that I was angry against her because I did not respond for two weeks, she actually revealed a weakness (i.e. she gets scared when I interrupt phone contact).

When she said she feared I could use any writings against her, she reavealed she knows the email trail is in my favor.

When she originally manipulated me by faking not receiving my emails, she justified my use of certified emails from then on.

Thank you Lucio,

your view gives me tranquillity.