My dating app process
Hello everyone,
as said elsewhere I now have 2-4 dates a week from dating apps and see a girl I met on Tinder regularly. So I structured and streamlined my process so I’m confident to share it at this point in time.
Context
The more dates I have the more I realize how many women are bored and lonely. Their main goal is to meet a high value high quality guy to no avail.
App selection
First my own context on Tinder. I am shadowbanned. That means that I’m deprioritized and do not see all the likes I’m due to bad behaviour according to Tinder. In my case I swiped right too many times a few months to a year ago. So my Tinder score is dropped. The only way out of this is a “hard reset” (see google in case) which I’ll do soon.
I discovered Bumble through a friend and I have had better success with. Massively so.
So it’s worth testing different apps (and paying for them) to compare in your local context which one gives you the best results.
Profile
This has been talked at length. Massive importance. Seduction university has an excellent section about this.
I also like what “Mate”’(the book) has to say about it. Too many guys (including me) focus too much on displaying one aspect of their life (adventurous, nice clothes, etc.). The idea is to showcase several aspects of your life. So it’s about having one picture for each category:
Main picture: portrait with a genuine warm smile, mine is a professional one that I use for my CV
- Tender defender: cuddling a pet
- Athletic proof: doing a physical activity
- Resourcefulness: somewhere exotic
- Social proof: being with friends having fun
- Aesthetic proof: dressing stylishly
- Willpower: doing something productive, material proof
Bio: I think it's worth getting inspired from other people. I will soon check out guys profile on Tinder & Bumble. It's said that it's better to use identities and I agree. For now, mine is a mimic of a friend where I just changed the identities. I think it's not 90% good yet, but it's 70% ish and much better than my previous ones.
Physician, Engineer, Adventurer, Physician. I'm here to make encounters 🙂
Texting process
My process is quite simple and replicable.
- Greetings
- Connection
- Interests
- Switch to WhatsApp
- Exchange on WhatApp
- Set a date
Greetings
A simple "Hello!" is enough in my case. I know it's been advertised to go for shock factor. I prefer the socially adequate route. I'm not claiming it's the best. That's what I currently do.
Connection
I ask one of 3 questions:
- How was your weekend? If we are at the beginning of the week
- How is your week? If we are in the middle of it
- What are your plans for this weekend? If we are at the end of the week
How was your weekend?
It also allows you to display how cool your life is when she asks you back. Not showing off but sharing: "Concert, escape game, board game. Quite eventful"
How is your week going?
This is simple way to build rapport. This also allows you to share how much you like your job for instance when she asks you back: "Great!"
What are your plans for this weekend?
For most girls and guys, people think that you're going to ask her out and are screening your agenda. You are not. It's a way to build rapport and also to display what you're going to do when she asks you back: "Restaurant, concert, family time :)"
Interests
It's an easy one. After she answers the first question. Then you look at her profile, choose any category she likes and you're interested about (Museums, concerts, etc.) and say:
I see you like X. What kind?
Or
I see you like X. What is your favorite?
This puts you in the chooser/selector/judge position while getting to know her. You have to know your value to pull this off as it will feel natural to ask her.
Switch to WhatsApp
After a few messages, on a high point, I say:
Let's exchange phone numbers, it's easier to exchange on WhatsApp
I only had 1 girl out of maybe 20 who refused because she was stalked in the past.
Exchange on WhatApp
Here, I chat, getting to know her better, vibe, the usual stuff. I don't even flirt yet.
Set a date
After a few messages/days, on a high point I tell her on WhatsApp:
Let's have a drink if you feel like it
So far all the girls I proposed accepted.
Strategy
On the app you want to be selective as the algorithm will apparently rank your attractiveness on this criterion as well. My current strategy is also to go on as many dates as possible. I want to improve my dating skills so this is practice. I think this is a good overall strategy.
Mindset
Basically, what comes through in real life will come through in the app. So if you feel you are high value it will shine through. So the self-development work comes first of course.
Comments and Questions are welcome!
My dating process coming soon...
Cheers!
Time passed for editing so I'm putting this here:
Her profession
After or before asking her interests, I ask them what they're doing in life. It is important and valuable information. What I found out is that it's also the opportunity to display your status when she asks you back: "Pediatrician". When they know my profession, they are right away more interested. High status in males is like big boobs in women: it's an attractive signal.
As I got to understand better female psychology this is a key information to them. So it's important to drop it quite soon IF that gives you higher status. If it does not you can spin it in a positive light or not mention it. I think it's better to spin it in a positive light: not "student" but "working on my finance diploma" or something like that, you see the Spiel.
The tone
High power high warmth of course. A key idea here I think is to mirror her tone. She's excited, using emojis and exclamation point you do the same. She's low key no exclamation point short texts you do the same. Full chameleon here.
Investment
It's better for her to have higher investment than you. I don't personally manufacture it. However I take advantage of it. If the girl starts to invest a lot in her answers, I make sure to keep my answer short and judge-like: "Cool or Cool!" depending on the tone of the girl for instance. So it's more a gauge of her interest than something else to me.
I'll update this thread as I get new ideas/experiences.
BOOM!
Awesome stuff, John, thank you for sharing!
And 2-4 dates a week in a challenging market is MASSIVE.
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This is nice!
May I ask how you are structuring your dates?
Is it attuned to the girl, something standard, how flexible is it and what frames is it allowing you to set?
Physical activity date could be interesting depending on the girl with your profile
Hello Mist1102,
Excuse me I forgot to answer: I adapt my behaviour to the situation. I also have a process. However, I think it's not solid enough yet so I feel I'm not ready yet to share a dating process that could be valuable for the community. As you can imagine, it's in the back of my mind though.
The power to walk away (and gaining one self-respect)
Here is a "technique" (or a phenomenon) that I observed that I want to share with you. I'll explain below the reason of using quotes ("").
Situation
It is when one starts to chat with a woman on a dating app and one is awaiting for an answer from the woman. The cases I found myself in were:
- She agreed to meet up and one is waiting for her confirmation for the day
- One proposed to meet up and is waiting for an answer
- One has proposed to exchange phone numbers, she agreed and asked for one's number. One sent his number and is now awaiting to be added in WhatsApp
Reasoning
Mentally, as I'm waiting for her answer there is an open loop in my mind. I have a desire to close this mental open loop.
Emotionnally, I want to have some self-respect as I extended myself for an invitation I think it's normal to get an answer, even if negative. I have also have an expectation, even if low. So I'm emotionnally invested even if it's low depending on the woman.
In summary, my motivation/intention for writing this answer was:
- To have self-respect as I was respectful to her, so my request deserve an answer even if negative
- To close a mental loop
My options
I could have not answered. However, for me this would have been the passive road. I could have let go mentally, but emotionnally the self-respect aspect would have missed.
I could have answered in a passive-aggressive way, which I don't consider for obvious reasons.
So I chose to answer in what I consider an assertive and respectful way.
Action
What I did was to write after waiting 5-6 days:
Without any answer, I propose you to leave it at that. That being said, I wish you an excellent 2023 year!
Analysis
Without any answer
Stating the current situation
I propose you to leave it at that.
"I propose": to keep it collaborative, it's an open proposition: she can say "yes" or "no." I'm not deciding unilaterally to stop the starting relationship.
That being said, I wish you an excellent 2023 year!
I stay positive as I'm not bitter nor angry, so I prefer to spread positivity than negativity. I prefer to keep this a positive experience for her and for me even though nothing would happen out of this virtual interaction. I move on, she moves on and that's it.
Outcome
Out of the 3 women, 2 of them apologized and got back to me. I met one of them and am currently chatting with the other one and will soon propose her to meet up. The third one never answered but I'm taking responsibilty for it as I was a bit too dominant and pushy in my last message when I proposed to meet up.
They both explained to me that the absence of answer came from being busy, which I addressed in the usual way ("I had a lot of work well, I totally understand", which was true BTW)
Conclusion
At the beginning of this post, I talked about a "technique" with quote. The reason is that I did not use this sentence in a machiavellian way to get an answer. Each time it was for me to be able to move on mentally and emotionnally. I was actually quite surprised to get an answer from both of them. The apology from them also suprised me and it taught me something new.
However, the new compliance shown (from not answering to agreeing to a date) shows the power dynamics component of this interaction. This is why I titled this "the power to walk away". Apparently, by displaying a (real) willingness to walk away, I displayed a high power trait which made me more interesting it seems.
So to me, it's mostly a way to gain one's self-respect, by sending the message:
If you're not interested, I'm cool with it. If that's the case, I'm going to move on and direct my energy in other directions. I wish you the best despite your non-interest and there are no reasons for us to feel bad about it.
I think this kind of message is best expressed in a genuine way, not in a machiavellian way. It's also a good feed-back on the woman's interest. Two of them were genuinely sorry and wrote a long message and the last one never answer. The two also maybe answered also because their behaviour conflicted with their self-image and felt some kind of cognitive dissonance (it's a hypothesis, I don't really know). Anyway it gave me good intel about them as well as persons.
Edit: corrections
On the importance of dating markets:
I learned from Lucio the importance of dating market (I listened to Date-onomics).
It is one if not the foundation of dating success.
Example:
On Bumble, on my 300'000 Swiss town, I get 1-3 matches a week.
When I switch (travel mode) to Poland, Hungary, even Denmark, Germany or Sweden (cities of same size or capital cities) I get up to 15 matches a day.
So that's a 50 to 100 fold in terms of number of matches per week.
The lesson I get from this: it's good that my town is such a challenging market (as you noticed Lucio) so I get to improve my game: the bar is higher.
The other lesson I get is that I could get much better and more women elsewhere. So changing dating market is still in my plans and I have to balance it with my career as career opportunities have a shelf life.
So where I live, I feel I have a value of 4/10 and in other places I feel I have a value of 8/10.
Hey John - just pop-corning thought bubbles.
How do you feel about dating nurses? I know a few doctor/nurse couples. Might be too much shop talk. On the other hand they understand the demands of being a doctor and the male leadership is kinda baked in. Nurses naturally don't tell doctors what to do.
Quote from John Freeman on February 8, 2023, 8:17 amOn the importance of dating markets:
Yeah, it's huge.
There are some dating coaches who deny the importance of the market you're in saying things such as "if you're good, you're good everywhere" which is kiiinda true of course, in a way, but it's also a huge BS to discount the importance of dating markets.
Only someone who is either lying to sell or who hasn't been around nearly enough could say that and believe it -and I'm not sure which one is worse, since if you sell products based on BS, then I wonder how good they can be-.
Quote from Transitioned on February 11, 2023, 11:23 pmHey John - just pop-corning thought bubbles.
How do you feel about dating nurses? I know a few doctor/nurse couples. Might be too much shop talk. On the other hand they understand the demands of being a doctor and the male leadership is kinda baked in. Nurses naturally don't tell doctors what to do.
Great points 🙂
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Hello,
I found this attempt at understanding the dating app statistical differences between men and women interesting: