Quote from John Freeman on March 13, 2021, 11:15 am

Also, I realize that the other character disturbed will help nasty social climber A if he sees an opportunity to gang up on the leader. So I have to be prepared for it. I will say:

It's all good, we can deal with it on our own, thanks. I'm expressing myself to nasty social climber A., that's all. (smile)

In order to prevent him from creating a dynamics of the two against me.

What happened is that I wanted to organize an evening without those two. And I was too late to do it so nasty social climber R organized it before I could do so. And of course he invited nasty social climber A as they are friends. So I failed and now I have to deal with it. If only the other guys were more socially aware, that would help. But this is wishful thinking. I'll have to deal with this on my own. They're quite naive so I know that the manipulators default tactic will try to frame me as someone who's touchy-feely, prone to anger, overbearing and taking it personnally.

So staying calm and friendly is key.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 14, 2021, 6:03 am

There's also the bazooka as the option:

Him: You're a genius
You: Dude... (pregnant pause, serious expression and slightly angry tonality) stop that fucking shit. I'm fucking tired of you going around and putting other people down. For a while, I've been a good sport and endured for the sake of keeping things cool. But now the patience is running thin. No more with that shit, last time

In technical TPM terms, it's "aggressive line in the sand" (no definition for this yet).

After that, will probably come some "going meta", as he will probably deny, or act shocked -and people around might truly be shocked-. Going meta now is crucial because everyone needs to be on the same page, knowing what he's doing, and that it's a pattern (and that you're not getting aggressive for nothing).

If this is well-timed, this can easily become the unofficial moment when he's been kicked out of the group. And the unofficial crowning of the group leader.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 14, 2021, 6:07 am

P.S.: just to be sure, I'm not necessarily recommending that action.
I'm putting it out there as a possible option that people usually don't think of.

I can remember having done it a couple of times in my life, once with a girlfriend, and once with a constant complainer everyone was fed-up with, but nobody had ever stood their ground with him (he was skilled at what he did, and quite high-power). The effect was a big (social) bomb in each case, and extremely effective.

Quote from John Freeman on March 14, 2021, 12:10 pm

Thank you for your answer, this is a great strategy.

I think it’s a matter of timing and I’m sure you’ll agree. Recently he went more covert to hide his nastiness. So most of the members of the group think he’s a cool fun guy. Or at least that he’s not a threat. They don’t know he’s character disturbed. So this could definitely work when, as you said, he’ll be a nuisance to the majority. This is not yet the case. Some people in the group have not been demeaned or taken advantage enough that he has a bad reputation. They know he likes to make fun of people but that’s it.

I’ll give a follow up on last evening and you’ll see he has toned down the aggression towards me. I think it’s because of the successful counter-attacks from the previous week. I became more of a hard target. For instance another group member (which I thought was a nasty social climber but now I’m not 100% sure, I’ll have to observe him more) proposed that we organize a birthday party for him!!!

So I think I have to go the covert road for now . The goal is to create a new group without him. Alright, I just had an “aha” moment. My mistake was that because I was not sure of Rodriguez I also did my best not to invite him . However this pushed him towards nasty social climber A. So it weakened my leadership because I lost some influence on Rodriguez. So I cannot fight on two fronts: nasty social climber A and Rodriguez. Let’s say that I find out for sure that Rodriguez is a character disturbed individual:

1. I will only have to deal with one as the other will be already out of the group.
2. If he’s a character disturbed individual, he’s much milder than nasty social climber A.

So my strategy will be to focus on excluding nasty social climber A and increase my influence on Rodriguez. Also, the fact that I'm not 100% sure about Rodriguez is a clue in itself.

I cannot fight two at once. I will have my new apartment soon. This means I’ll have more power to invite people in a nice environment. I will be able to execute more easily my strategy. In the mean time I’ll have to deal with them. Also I will start to invite my own friends who are loyal to me to my new place. I wanted to start from scratch but that was a mistake. I was wasting a lot of social capital that I have with my friends from university.

So I think the global strategy is to create a core group where I'm 100% sure all the people are honest, authentic and benevolent people (=pro-social) and go from there. Also with people from work which are honest and authentic.

Cheers!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 15, 2021, 5:17 am

For instance another group member (which I thought was a nasty social climber but now I’m not 100% sure, I’ll have to observe him more) proposed that we organize a birthday party for him!!!

Ah, the clueless folk.

If he'd say something like that in a group, I'd avoid answer or participating in the topic in any way. Maybe even open a new thread to cut that one short.
If it's 1:1, I'd ask him "what have you got in mind", then either don't reply anything, or if he keeps insisting just add something like:

"I appreciate you wanting to make surprise parties man, that's really a cool thing from a friend to do. If you go ahead, I'll try to show up, but unluckily I can't commit to helping prepare much as I'm busy as hell".

For the rest, your plan sounds good.

Quote from John Freeman on March 21, 2021, 1:09 am

Another success for me today. I moved out from my studio to a 2 rooms apartment with a balcony, a dishwasher, a large fridge and an oven. That was one of my goals when I started PU almost a year ago.

This might look like nothing but I worked a lot to get there. Many efforts and sacrifices.

And my new friends helped me to move out of course.

Did someone say social skills? Exactly.

Cheers!

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 21, 2021, 6:58 am

Quote from John Freeman on March 21, 2021, 1:09 am

Another success for me today. I moved out from my studio to a 2 rooms apartment with a balcony, a dishwasher, a large fridge and an oven.

Wow this is awesome man. I am fond of using the oven.

This might look like nothing but I worked a lot to get there. Many efforts and sacrifices.

Lots of value-takers to battle to reach this point in life.

Did someone say social skills? Exactly.

Cheers and toast!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 22, 2021, 3:13 am

It looks like quite a major achievement instead.

The place you live has a huge impact on your life and mood, so congratulations and well done on that, John, happy for you!

And even better how you moved in there, with your new social circle helping you out.

Quote from John Freeman on March 25, 2021, 2:46 am

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 21, 2021, 6:58 am

Quote from John Freeman on March 21, 2021, 1:09 am

Another success for me today. I moved out from my studio to a 2 rooms apartment with a balcony, a dishwasher, a large fridge and an oven.

Wow this is awesome man. I am fond of using the oven.

This warrants more explanation: I lived for a long time in a studio where I was not having even a real oven. I had a small one.

This might look like nothing but I worked a lot to get there. Many efforts and sacrifices.

Lots of value-takers to battle to reach this point in life.

That is actually true.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 22, 2021, 3:13 am

It looks like quite a major achievement instead.

I think it is.

The place you live has a huge impact on your life and mood, so congratulations and well done on that, John, happy for you!

Definitely. Now I feel so good being at my place. I have trees in front of my balcony and a river running close by. I love water so this is very soothing when I come back from work.

And even better how you moved in there, with your new social circle helping you out.

Yes, it shows that we can build a social circle that will help us with our challenges quite fast. Humans are wired for connection and reciprocity.

Update

I got. a surgery today (nothing too serious but I still have to stay off work for 2 weeks). So I should have more time to answer the posts and create new ones that I had in mind for some time.

Cheers!