Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
My journey to assertiveness
Learning power dynamics is painful. Just like learning seduction. You get emotionnally hurt.
Lesson from yesterday at the board games party with my friends that I invited and cooked burgers for them:
- Don't accept someone you don't trust or a rival as a judge: defend all judges frames.
- When you're tired or don't feel like defending: don't surround yourself with value-takers, it will take a lot of energy from you.
- Defend ALL micro-aggressions: I was being too passive and people understand this as a permission for aggression. Ignoring is good for one or two pass but you cannot keep ignoring an aggressive individual it will pass for weakness and submission.
- Don't try to befriend an aggressor: even if subtle aggressions, they are still aggression. How would you treat somebody who puts a little pebble everyday in your shoe? If you say: it's just a pebble. Guess what? It will come back tomorrow. I learned it at work, it's true in private life as well.
- That leads me to the skills of reframing, shaming, surfacing: I did not use them because I wanted to be friendly. Other friendly individuals get it but the most aggressive ones are there for power.
- Social scalping is an effective tool as it works over time, just like Trump does: if you keep repeating something negative about someone and positive about you, people will start believing it. In this case, he frames me and selected others who don't have their guards up negatively and him positively.
So from now on I have to frame A. as a value-taking individual. It's sad, I don't like it but I will have to do it because that's what he does. So next time I see him, I will have to treat him as a value-taker and be ruthless with him. Calm but ruthless. I tried to do it the nice way yesterday by being a friend to him but it did not change a thing. So I gave him many chances and he kept failing at them. I learned from him and I'm grateful for the people he help me meet but it's time for me to move on: I decided not to have people like him in my life anymore. I will have to be ready for the fight and focus on the fight, but then as I said it's not as fun as I would like it to be. This makes me realize that focussing on learning social skills was the right decision. I have so much to learn.
And I don't want to have an asshole in my close circle just to learn to deal with people like him. I have enough of those at work and in my family. That being said I recognize that I have to learn how to deal with such individuals in my social life. I realize there are 2 circles:
- Close friends: you can let your guard down
- Acquaintances: you cannot let your guard down
I'm happy I can say that I have now 1 close friend. The truth is that with most people you cannot let your guard down. It sucks but I'm finding it to be true. I'm sure it depends on your environment as some environment have more pro-social individuals.
That is why I have to defend against ALL micro-aggression. Even if I choose to ignore it. But to be aware of the micro-aggression and aware of my choice how to answer it.
Here are the skills I need to develop:
- Communication skills: assertiveness, difficult conversations
- Defense skills: micro-aggressions, power moves, frame control
I have a lot to learn. Ok, I changed my mind: I'm going to use A. as a practice for these skills. I'm going to keep him around and he'll be my dummy to practice these skills. Smarter choice. Learner mindset. Then, I can remove him from my life if I choose (machiavellian). I will keep my guard up with him and I'll learn how to defend from him. I just have to remember to defend against all micro-aggressions. I had revised the lesson on micro-aggressions to go higher and use shaming against him but as I said I was not in the mood for such defenses. So I'm going to mount a defense against him especially: I'm going to frame him as an arrogant man who devalues others to put him above. That's what he does. I'm not going to do it openly. I'm going to do it covertly. That's how I'll be able to play board games and keep a good mood. I'll do covert moves so not to disturb the positive group dynamics. I'll stay calm emotionally but sharp mentally.
@lucio: that is why I could not surface him: when everybody's having a laugh in a group, if I surface him or if I shame him, it sounds like I'm the dick. Because they are very low-level aggressions. So I have to expose him that's the only way but in subtle ways.
Example: he proposed to do the dishes but had no intention of doing it. He just did it to look good. So I said: "no man, it's all good." But I should have said:
Also, I did something good: when he made a correction to the rules, I said: "thank you for the correction". People were kind of struck, it was really royal-like from me as I learned from my supervisor. That's the advantage, at work I can learn from high-powered people. The problem is that I was hoping I did not have to play the power dynamics game in private life. But I'm afraid I will have to.
These kind of evenings make me realize how far behind I'm in terms of social skills sometimes. But as Tom Bilyeu says: "it's not about who you are, it's about who you can become and how bad you're willing to work to get there."
2021 is going to be the year of social skills for me.
Example: he proposed to do the dishes but had no intention of doing it. He just did it to look good. So I said: "no man, it's all good." But I should have said:
Edit:
Example: he proposed to do the dishes but had no intention of doing it. He just did it to look good. So I said: "no man, it's all good." But I should have said: "do you really intend to help me or you're just saying it?"
Otherwise I came here to say that I'm passionate about social skills and power dynamics. It's a new passion. Previously I did not like power dynamics because I was a victim of it many times. My level of skills were too low. Now that I'm improving, I'm actually enjoying it a lot. However, I'm also learning that there are many levels to it, so I'm discovering how little I know about it.
I realised A. dominated me while at my place in a nasty way publicly as I was in the leadership position. I let him win the showdown. My mistake was that I thought: let's have some fun and be friends. Let's forget this power struggle. Huge mistake. As a taker of the social-climber category, he's all about the power struggle, the nasty one moreover. So of course, he would not let it go. So each attempt of friendship has been met with contempt and one-ups. So I have been submissive to him as I tried to re-establish an equal relationship. But I forgot that these individuals are not into win-win. So this was a huge mistake. As a positive person, I'm thinking about this event and ruminating stuff to find the answer.
All I see is that the problem is in this individual. There are two ways:
- Either I keep seeing him in a group setting and I'm always ready to defend: I don't need it. The value he could provide me is marginal (access to his friends, hiking, playing board games) as I can find this in other high-quality individuals. So I'm at a net loss of value. Since Lucio brought up the fact that a frenemy is not necessarily a taker. I think in this case it is. When I met him he was looking for musicians to start a band. Nobody answered him but me. Maybe they smelled the problem. Some people say attitude is everything. I agree.
- Exclude him from my life: I think it's the best long term solution. Now that I can visualise what high-quality individuals look like, I can visualise a party in my new apartment surrounded by such individuals.
For me, friendship, trust and respect are very important. So when these values are violated, I feel hurt. That was my mistake though. So I made the mistake of not upholding my values. You see me dancing a lot around this issue. That's how much it affects me.
Edit: I also realize that my mistake is that I entered his group wether I like it or not. So in a way, I was behaving as a taker even if I was providing value. I also escalated the group building too fast before knowing each member individually. So:
- I was actually in a minority in his group many times. So bad conditions as to establish myself as a leader in the group
- I did not know individual members as good as him. Yes I provided value but a bond is a bond. Even if it's with a manipulative individual. I did not have as good of a bond as he had.
- So I should have first establish myself in his mind as a leader by inviting him in my groups. In these conditions I could have replied to his attacks easier.
- That is also why I did not defend as much last time. I felt that with his 2 friends he was at an advantage.
Summary:
- Build personal bonds
- If you meet an adverserial individual in a social setting, make your best to be in a majority in terms of alliances.
- When you launch a takeover, make sure you have already 1. and 2.
So I learned as many lessons as I made mistakes. I hope this is helpful for this community as well.
I used the following while talking to my colleague who gave me advice on this topic. When I said: "and I don't need it". She said immediately: "No that's exactly it: we don't need it." So I'll be using this powerful frame also to screen people.
Credit @lucio:You know, taking or giving are attitude towards others and towards life.Sometimes you see it in the smaller things before you see in the bigger things.Like I can make a joke about you now for example, but am I teasing, or am I making fun of you? Am I laughing with you, or am I laughing at you? Am I making a joke, or I am hiding a personal attack behind a joke?And today it's a joke, tomorrow it might be something bigger. Maybe they lie to your partner about you cheating, or spread rumors about you to ruin your reputation. Because the value-taker is about the attitude.And I don't need those people.Do you know what I mean?
I translated in French and printed it so I can read it over and over again. As Tom says: "tattoo it in my brain".
I talked with my sister about my current situation in friendship and what does she think about it.
She says that when someone exposes personal things in public, the frame from the person is: "I'm going to expose this guy you think is so awesome". So he uses personal information about weaknesses and insecurities to "out you".
She says that at this moment, instead of trying to hide our insecurities we should own them. I told her that the problem is that then the thread is expanding on my weaknesses. She said that after that you change topic. I agree. She said that nobody likes someone who does this to people, so I should not be worried about what other people think about me in this case. She also told me that it will filter people who like me for who I am and the others. She said this kind of people are "toxic" so she agreed on not having these kind of people around me. That they thrive on us hiding our weaknesses. She also said that we should not see the other one as something to fight and just own our mistakes.
I told her that I agree about the self-development part. This is a great opportunity for me to work on my insecurities. I never denied it.
As I said I'm learning this stuff so I don't know what to think. As a learner I agree with what she says about personal development.
I told her about frames and power. I also realized how little I still know about power since I had trouble to articulate what it is.
Something funny is that during our conversation she stopped the conversation abruptly because my nephew was getting excited. So she said (frame) that I was ignoring him. I said no. I held my frame. Earlier in the conversation she didn't like my mother interrupting her. So I told her the truth: I want to have the ability to end the conversation, as just like her, don't like to be interrupted. She also sent my step-brother to take care of children (tasked him).
So in a way, it's like learning pick-up. People use frame control, dominance, etc. all day long. But when presented with it, they will deny they're using it.
Do you think in a social setting we should own our weaknesses and insecurities?
Thanks a lot!
Hello guys,
I would like your feed-back regarding the post above, please.
I understand that when we decide not to be vulnerable it means that we want to appear stronger than we are (powerful).
When we admit our weaknesses and shortcomings we appear weaker but we take away the critics someone could address towards us.
I’m aware that this is all context dependent. That is what I’m doing my best to figure out.
I know you talked about vulnerability Lucio. However I’m wondering how it applies in this particular case.
Hey John,
I guess you're referring to this part below?
She says that at this moment, instead of trying to hide our insecurities we should own them.
You already answered when you said this:
When we admit our weaknesses and shortcomings we appear weaker but we take away the critics someone could address towards us.
I’m aware that this is all context dependent. That is what I’m doing my best to figure out.
So to give a particular answer, it's better if there is a specific example.
Otherwise, as a general principle, it's true, it can take power away from the attack to admit it. However, I wouldn't then generalize and say "yes, always do that", since not all vulnerabilities are created equals and what's most effective, as you're already aware, also depends on personalities, groups, social statuses, etc.
Thanks for your honesty here John... speaking for myself only, I've found that honesty and integrity are paramount... when I pretend to be stronger or more perfect than I am, i'm implicitly judging myself for being flawed/human and sending a message to myself that my little idiosyncracies are somehow a symptom of being 'not good enough'... I think being transparent about my own weaknesses can actually be very empowering, but only if I really own them and share them from a place/frame of unconditional self-acceptance and unconditional self-respect... I remind myself to love myself, 'warts and all', rather than pretending that I am someone else..
Thanks,
Lucas
Hello guys,
I realized that in the social group I’m currently navigating, housemate R. is actually dangerous.
I means I like him he’s a cool guy. However he’s quite aware of power dynamics and is playing subtle power moves on me.
In short: he’s social climbing. I did not notice it in the first place as he has a harmless look about him: boyish/feminine.
But now I see it. In lots of small things:
- Calling me to play cards over and over as I was by the chimney.
- Telling me it’s my turn to play over and over again.
- Instead of calling out the people who arrived late, he called me out for being on time « he’s Swiss » almost making fun of me for being on time
- Instead of coming down from his room when I arrived on time, he made me wait.
So the showdown is coming soon.
Again insecurities push people to try to dominate others.
Hello guys,
I started listening to difficult conversations, then stopped because I prioritized social skills and started to listen to "improve your social skills". This morning, I realise my greatest weakness in social skills are:
- Defending against manipulation
- Assertive instead of submissive behaviour
- Stop being a people-pleaser
So I'll be focusing on these two first. This was brought clear to me when I listened to "improve your social skill". I noticed that if I had one goal about learning social skills, it was to defend myself.
About manipulation, I'm going to listen to "Who's pulling your strings" and "The Psychopath whisperer" first.
Any other book you would recommend on the topic? Or on stopping to be a people-pleaser?
