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Palace doorman making continuous reference to the content of my incoming correspondence

#1 · July 18, 2022, 8:56 pm

Quote from B on July 18, 2022, 8:56 pm
Hi Guys!
The context: I removed all friendship and contact, apart from perfunctory "hi"s in passing, with the doorman of my palace some time ago.
This was due to the fact that he was continuing to power-test and insult me by using condescending tones, snotty remarks, innnuendo, and so on. And I had a very creepy vibe coming from him. He would also ask nosy questions with an expectation that I had to reply, and in the end I started ignoring him and not even responding.
Now he is starting to show this new, disturbing behavior: whenever I receive correspondence, in handing it to me he makes reference to its content (with a disturbing precision), and even tries to guess the content of sealed packages.
Just today this happened:
Doorman: Hi Bel, I have a letter for you, it is your new health card. And here is a package for you, I think it contains a book.
Sure enough, the letter contained my health card. But it was impossible to be sure from the outside, which makes me think the doorman is even putting (my) letters against the light to try to read out their content.
I'm thinking of trying to stop this behavior by using assertiveness. It's also going to be a good practice for me. I'm thinking of going soon (the last episode happened today), and say:
X, I've noticed you tend to mention out loud the content of my correspondence in handing it to me. I would appreciate if you could stop doing this and just mention the fact that I have a letter or package without referencing its potential content. I'd like to think the content of my correspondence is safe from being examined or divulged. Can you do that?
Then, assuming he says ok:
Ok thanks, I'm glad we clarified this. Talk soon.
Assuming he pushes back:
X, I think this thing I'm asking you isn't too difficult. And I would prefer to resolve this between us now, rather than having to start to point this out every time you deliver a letter to me, alone or in front of others. Can you do that?
Do you think it could fly or am I exaggerating something here?

Hi Guys!

The context: I removed all friendship and contact, apart from perfunctory "hi"s in passing, with the doorman of my palace some time ago.

This was due to the fact that he was continuing to power-test and insult me by using condescending tones, snotty remarks, innnuendo, and so on. And I had a very creepy vibe coming from him. He would also ask nosy questions with an expectation that I had to reply, and in the end I started ignoring him and not even responding.

Now he is starting to show this new, disturbing behavior: whenever I receive correspondence, in handing it to me he makes reference to its content (with a disturbing precision), and even tries to guess the content of sealed packages.

Just today this happened:

Doorman: Hi Bel, I have a letter for you, it is your new health card. And here is a package for you, I think it contains a book.

Sure enough, the letter contained my health card. But it was impossible to be sure from the outside, which makes me think the doorman is even putting (my) letters against the light to try to read out their content.

I'm thinking of trying to stop this behavior by using assertiveness. It's also going to be a good practice for me. I'm thinking of going soon (the last episode happened today), and say:

X, I've noticed you tend to mention out loud the content of my correspondence in handing it to me. I would appreciate if you could stop doing this and just mention the fact that I have a letter or package without referencing its potential content. I'd like to think the content of my correspondence is safe from being examined or divulged. Can you do that?

Then, assuming he says ok:

Ok thanks, I'm glad we clarified this. Talk soon.

Assuming he pushes back:

X, I think this thing I'm asking you isn't too difficult. And I would prefer to resolve this between us now, rather than having to start to point this out every time you deliver a letter to me, alone or in front of others. Can you do that?

Do you think it could fly or am I exaggerating something here?

#2 · July 18, 2022, 9:08 pm

This behavior is definitely not acceptable, it is an invasion of privacy. I would feel rather uncomfortable in this situation.

Have you ever tried to clarify with him personally about this? If not yet, I think what you suggest is perfectly appropriate. Also, is there a way to report his behavior if he doesn't change? There may be some code of conduct for his position and his management might take notice of his disturbing behavior if you report.

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and B have reacted to this post.

#3 · July 18, 2022, 9:15 pm

Thank you Emily!

Part of the reason why I am asking is that I have this feeling that if I do assertinevess, he may try to get revenge in other ways or do it even more.

So I am wondering if it is better to just accept this and not do anything.

Reporting it could be an idea, but it would put me in direct conflict, so I would prefer to avoid it.

#4 · July 18, 2022, 9:32 pm

Dude, this is totally unacceptable. I understand you tolerated until now, but this has to stop. Remind me what country you're living in for cultural context?

Personally I would not do anything now. Next time he does it:

Bel: there is X letter with your health card
You: Have you been looking into my mail?
Him: No (he has to backtracks/deny or he's in the wrong), I just guessed.
You: Well, I hope not because this is illegal, you know?
Him (he will keep the joking/light tone as he has been able to do so earlier): I hope you won't sue me hahahah
You: Don't ever try again to assess the content of my personal private mail. (serious tone, moves on goes inside whatever he says next)

You threaten him of consequences if he opens your mail. Dude, this is a doorman! And even still it's a stranger, this is not allowed at all.

Like you, I would just say short "hello" and enforce boundaries, making him understand that basically his job is at stake, which it is.

If my janitor would look at my mail or make reference to its content, that would not go well.

This is: disrepectful + illegal + unprofessional.

Part of the reason why I am asking is that I have this feeling that if I do assertinevess, he may try to get revenge in other ways.
So I am wondering if it is better to just accept this and not do anything.

Dude (I'm using dude as a wake-up call), WTF?? Get out of this fear of conflict/other people or they will have you under their feet for the rest of your life. Realise that what is holding you is a FEAR not a fact, a fear!

If you're afraid of a doorman's revenge, then what's next? Remember you're an eagle! Personally I recommend strongly to get out of your comfort zone and try something different that what you have done so far. Worst case scenario: you apologize.

Meta: please understand that I respect you, the tone is to snap you out of this horrible mindset. You deserve respect!!!

B and Lucio Buffalmano have reacted to this post.

#5 · July 18, 2022, 9:43 pm

Ok John. But don’t call me dude ever again! :)

I’m thinking of a mid-level approach like this:

Next time he does it:

X, have you been looking into my correspondence again? You know it’s illegal. (serious smile)

#6 · July 18, 2022, 9:44 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on July 18, 2022, 9:44 pm
Wow, what a creep.
I'm thinking if you can even read a letter by holding it against the sun.
I think the issue here started when:
You got somewhat close to someone it was better stay "warm-ish" at a shallow level
Let some disrespect go by, made him think he was above you
Cut contact later on, which annoyed him as he thought he was above and couldn't stand losing face
Quote from Bel on July 18, 2022, 9:15 pm
Part of the reason why I am asking is that I have this feeling that if I do assertinevess, he may try to get revenge in other ways or do it even more.
Yeah, it's a fair concern (also see my latest post and experience in the private forum).
Kill, don't wound.
Or remove, without making it seem it was you.
You know more, but the way you're describing, it's possible that he may be the kind of "little personal life" type of creep who wastes way too much time and effort on others and (covertly) harasses and seeks revenge.
So albeit I wouldn't necessarily exclude assertiveness, if you wanna go that route, I'd consider making it a bit more power-protecting.
For example:
How did you even know what was inside.
Let him reply, and then:
OK, but man, it feels strange when one tries to guess what's inside other people's post (what if I was ordering a vibrator)
That addresses the issue quite directly, but without being too confrontational (the "what if" reason saves face).
It allows you to "test the ground" without going the full distance on your first shot.
He may backtrack, or he may volunteer to stop.
Or you may realize that he just doesn't realize it's weird.
Since you know the situation better, here are some options that may work depending on everything else you know:
See what you can do to remove him
Only tell him not to talk about your post publicly, see if he'll stop for good even when you're alone
Have your wife confront him -it's possible he only has a problem with you personally-
Ignore it and see if it disappears -it's possible he's just trying to get a raise out of you-
Go high-power direct, tell him it's not cool and you don't want him to guess or comment your stuff. If he defends or denies, insist and be cool with burning bridges

Wow, what a creep.

I'm thinking if you can even read a letter by holding it against the sun.

I think the issue here started when:

You got somewhat close to someone it was better stay "warm-ish" at a shallow level
Let some disrespect go by, made him think he was above you
Cut contact later on, which annoyed him as he thought he was above and couldn't stand losing face

Quote from Bel on July 18, 2022, 9:15 pm
Part of the reason why I am asking is that I have this feeling that if I do assertinevess, he may try to get revenge in other ways or do it even more.

Yeah, it's a fair concern (also see my latest post and experience in the private forum).

Kill, don't wound.

Or remove, without making it seem it was you.

You know more, but the way you're describing, it's possible that he may be the kind of "little personal life" type of creep who wastes way too much time and effort on others and (covertly) harasses and seeks revenge.

So albeit I wouldn't necessarily exclude assertiveness, if you wanna go that route, I'd consider making it a bit more power-protecting.
For example:

How did you even know what was inside.

Let him reply, and then:

OK, but man, it feels strange when one tries to guess what's inside other people's post (what if I was ordering a vibrator)

That addresses the issue quite directly, but without being too confrontational (the "what if" reason saves face).

It allows you to "test the ground" without going the full distance on your first shot.
He may backtrack, or he may volunteer to stop.
Or you may realize that he just doesn't realize it's weird.

Since you know the situation better, here are some options that may work depending on everything else you know:

See what you can do to remove him
Only tell him not to talk about your post publicly, see if he'll stop for good even when you're alone
Have your wife confront him -it's possible he only has a problem with you personally-
Ignore it and see if it disappears -it's possible he's just trying to get a raise out of you-
Go high-power direct, tell him it's not cool and you don't want him to guess or comment your stuff. If he defends or denies, insist and be cool with burning bridges

John Freeman and B have reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.

#7 · July 18, 2022, 9:45 pm

Quote from Bel on July 18, 2022, 9:43 pm
Ok John. But don’t call me dude ever again! 🙂

What?

#8 · July 18, 2022, 9:49 pm

Quote from John Freeman on July 18, 2022, 9:45 pm
Quote from Bel on July 18, 2022, 9:43 pm
Ok John. But don’t call me dude ever again! 🙂
What?

That came out too strong. Wanted just to make a joke on this.

I appreciate your feedback John, I'm doing my best.

Lucio Buffalmano and Ali Scarlett have reacted to this post.

#9 · July 18, 2022, 9:55 pm

It's all good. I did not get the joke! (really)

For clarification (if need be): "Dude" is affectionate in my mind.

Yeah I know you are! Hence the support! This is encouragement! You're a rockstar, man!

Edit: On my side, I'm getting annoyed to hear how this guy is treating you, I'm in the fight with you!

B has reacted to this post.

#10 · July 18, 2022, 9:55 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on July 18, 2022, 9:55 pm
Quote from John Freeman on July 18, 2022, 9:32 pm
Dude, this is totally unacceptable. I understand you tolerated until now, but this has to stop. Remind me what country you're living in for cultural context?
Personally I would not do anything now. Next time he does it:
Bel: there is X letter with your health card
You: Have you been looking into my mail?
Him: No (he has to backtracks/deny or he's in the wrong), I just guessed.
You: Well, I hope not because this is illegal, you know?
Him (he will keep the joking/light tone as he has been able to do so earlier): I hope you won't sue me hahahah
You: Don't ever try again to assess the content of my personal private mail. (serious tone, moves on goes inside whatever he says next)
You threaten him of consequences if he opens your mail. Dude, this is a doorman! And even still it's a stranger, this is not allowed at all.
Like you, I would just say short "hello" and enforce boundaries, making him understand that basically his job is at stake, which it is.
If my janitor would look at my mail or make reference to its content, that would not go well.
This is: disrepectful + illegal + unprofessional.
Part of the reason why I am asking is that I have this feeling that if I do assertinevess, he may try to get revenge in other ways.
So I am wondering if it is better to just accept this and not do anything.
Dude (I'm using dude as a wake-up call), WTF?? Get out of this fear of conflict/other people or they will have you under their feet for the rest of your life. Realise that what is holding you is a FEAR not a fact, a fear!
If you're afraid of a doorman's revenge, then what's next? Remember you're an eagle! Personally I recommend strongly to get out of your comfort zone and try something different that what you have done so far. Worst case scenario: you apologize.
Meta: please understand that I respect you, the tone is to snap you out of this horrible mindset. You deserve respect!!!
Great message, John.
It's a good mindset and approach and, in most cases, I think it'd work great.
Just as a reminder thought, I think it's worth keeping in mind that there are many creeps and stalkers in the world (many men aren't much aware of how common it can be since they mostly harass either popular folks, or women).
It may still be OK to say "fuck it, I'll fight them", and sometimes, you gotta go for it. But it's also fair to remember that life's short to waste time with idiots if another option was going to get you a similar result, but with less dominance/directness.

Quote from John Freeman on July 18, 2022, 9:32 pm
Dude, this is totally unacceptable. I understand you tolerated until now, but this has to stop. Remind me what country you're living in for cultural context?
Personally I would not do anything now. Next time he does it:
Bel: there is X letter with your health card
You: Have you been looking into my mail?
Him: No (he has to backtracks/deny or he's in the wrong), I just guessed.
You: Well, I hope not because this is illegal, you know?
Him (he will keep the joking/light tone as he has been able to do so earlier): I hope you won't sue me hahahah
You: Don't ever try again to assess the content of my personal private mail. (serious tone, moves on goes inside whatever he says next)
You threaten him of consequences if he opens your mail. Dude, this is a doorman! And even still it's a stranger, this is not allowed at all.
Like you, I would just say short "hello" and enforce boundaries, making him understand that basically his job is at stake, which it is.
If my janitor would look at my mail or make reference to its content, that would not go well.
This is: disrepectful + illegal + unprofessional.
Part of the reason why I am asking is that I have this feeling that if I do assertinevess, he may try to get revenge in other ways.
So I am wondering if it is better to just accept this and not do anything.
Dude (I'm using dude as a wake-up call), WTF?? Get out of this fear of conflict/other people or they will have you under their feet for the rest of your life. Realise that what is holding you is a FEAR not a fact, a fear!
If you're afraid of a doorman's revenge, then what's next? Remember you're an eagle! Personally I recommend strongly to get out of your comfort zone and try something different that what you have done so far. Worst case scenario: you apologize.
Meta: please understand that I respect you, the tone is to snap you out of this horrible mindset. You deserve respect!!!

Great message, John.

It's a good mindset and approach and, in most cases, I think it'd work great.

Just as a reminder thought, I think it's worth keeping in mind that there are many creeps and stalkers in the world (many men aren't much aware of how common it can be since they mostly harass either popular folks, or women).
It may still be OK to say "fuck it, I'll fight them", and sometimes, you gotta go for it. But it's also fair to remember that life's short to waste time with idiots if another option was going to get you a similar result, but with less dominance/directness.

John Freeman has reacted to this post.

Community, new content and Confidence University now available here.