Quote from Power Duck on October 9, 2023, 3:09 pm

Quote from John Freeman on October 9, 2023, 7:22 am

Yeah Power Duck, I agree with Lucio.

Sometimes you'll be offended by people who care for you. That is what I call a friend. Because if they offend you (unwillingly and they won't know what offends you beforehand) it means as Lucio said that they're willing to risk the relationship for your own good. That is they're ready to lose in order for you to gain. Who would not want someone like that on their team?

So yeah I get it it's an insecurity and I think you did well by speaking out. I mean that it allows you to address it. When we get offended it's an opportunity to think about why. I'm going to post about an insecurity of mine real soon BTW. So that you know I'm including myself in all the statements above.

So I'll go one step further than Lucio: they treat you as a teen because you allow them to treat you as a teen. You're the only one who's responsible for your independence, not them. That is what adulthood is. So I get it it's complicated. You'll have to let some leisures on the side and some free time. That's the price of independence. Your parents will of course be happy to keep you dependent as it gives them power over you. So I think it's on you. I agree with Lucio and I already said it if I remember well: as a 19 y.o. living with your parents I think you'll benefit a lot in terms of independence from having a student job.

(I worked along my studies during 17 years so I know it's possible and I studied engineering and medicine, so if I can do it...)

I think your second message shows your willingness to learn and it's awesome for me to read. Also I think what's at stake for you in this period of life is the transition to adulthood. So every step you can take in this direction (of independence) is great. When I talk about adulthood I mean mentally and emotionally. And it does not stop at 25 or 30, it's a long journey to become an adult. So again we're all in the same boat here.

And if we go back to going one day abroad alone with the money you earned: what a self-signal! The self-signal of earning your own money is so important for self-development that I think it's actually more important than the money itself. Believe it or not.

Off-topic

On the topic of being offended for our own good. I personally lose respect for the person if I took the risk of risking the relationship/rapport with the person for them and they don't see it. Then for me we cannot be close friends.

Example: I risked telling a friend that he should think well before having children/house with his GF. They were having quite frequent fights and I saw him cry a lot and be really disturbed by this manipulative woman. When I told him I thought he took it well. Of course I was diplomatic walking on egg shells and all.

Several week laters he told me in an indirect was that basically it was like I attacked him. It hurt me as I took risks to tell him something that I thought could be beneficial for him. Lost respect for him, took some distance. He's now a friend not a close friend anymore. But it's actually the proper distance with him so no regrets.

After that I also learned that when people are in love they won't even listen to their friends. So all good. I also learned that if a friend tells that to me I hope I'll thank him for giving me this high-risk advice and interpret it as well-meaning.

/Off-topic

Thanks for the response John.

Couldn't agree more with you. About working, I've already thought about working while studying but probably in the last year of the degree. If I were to work while studying, it would break havoc in my family considering how the dynamic is set right now.

However slowly pushing the idea that I'll start working in the last year of the degree would make it easier for my parents and relatives to accept it without getting anxious and obsessed with it. Wouldn't be the first time I've done it.

About accepting insecurities. I always think it's a shame when what could be/could've been good friendships get ruined because of a person unwilling to change and face his deepest fears, deep down those guys are cowards.

they treat you as a teen because you allow them to treat you as a teen. You're the only one who's responsible for your independence, not them. That is what adulthood is. So I get it it's complicated. You'll have to let some leisures on the side and some free time. That's the price of independence

Fully agree with that. I've already found ways to be more independent that include studying as much as I would want to, what I need to do is start doing them.

Cheers.

Quote from Power Duck on October 9, 2023, 3:47 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 9, 2023, 11:57 am

Great message Bel, I think it was really needed, thank you for sharing it.

I'd like to add that I still also the benefits of both approaches.

And I also think that the "stronger approach" may also be needed.

The 300kg man can also benefit from hearing "from now on, greens only" because that gives him a preview of the level of effort that's needed (while in his mind he may have been thinking of cutting 1 of his 5 daily doughnuts only).
It has the benefit of the potential "shock effect" about what's possible and doable. And gives him a target of where he wants to end up (healthy eating / empowering life).

Anyway, back to the more technical level, one area I saw possible improvements is this (and Power Duck already highlighted that):

Sister: how old are they?
Power Duck: around 30-40 (I didn't see the covert frame here)

I think it was possible to see the issue coming if one was already in a strategic mindset approach.

Also because: how can you know the age when we've just started talking?

This is a case where strategic thinking can help both achieving goal, while also being equally, if not more, truthful.

What if Ali joins, and Ali is much closer to Power Duck's age?

What if some folks who are similar age of Power Duck join even while not using the forum much, or if someone new joins between now and then?

What if an 80 year old joins?

Is it "worse" because he's older, or does he gain "protective grandpa" points?

So, foreseeing the issue, one can reply:

Sister: how old are they?
Power Duck: well, the group is already forming, so not sure, but potentially a whole spectrum of ages

This can also be added now, by the way, to assuage fear.

Another good option:

• Say how helpful the community has been

So the frame is already "those guys are good for me".
Edit: the most manipulative parents will actually want to stop their child from going even more if they know the community is useful/empowering. But I'm assuming we're not at that level here.

P.S:

"Protective grandpa points"  that was a good one hahaha.

Quote from John Freeman on October 10, 2023, 6:51 am

Quote from Power Duck on October 9, 2023, 3:09 pm

Quote from John Freeman on October 9, 2023, 7:22 am

Yeah Power Duck, I agree with Lucio.

Sometimes you'll be offended by people who care for you. That is what I call a friend. Because if they offend you (unwillingly and they won't know what offends you beforehand) it means as Lucio said that they're willing to risk the relationship for your own good. That is they're ready to lose in order for you to gain. Who would not want someone like that on their team?

So yeah I get it it's an insecurity and I think you did well by speaking out. I mean that it allows you to address it. When we get offended it's an opportunity to think about why. I'm going to post about an insecurity of mine real soon BTW. So that you know I'm including myself in all the statements above.

So I'll go one step further than Lucio: they treat you as a teen because you allow them to treat you as a teen. You're the only one who's responsible for your independence, not them. That is what adulthood is. So I get it it's complicated. You'll have to let some leisures on the side and some free time. That's the price of independence. Your parents will of course be happy to keep you dependent as it gives them power over you. So I think it's on you. I agree with Lucio and I already said it if I remember well: as a 19 y.o. living with your parents I think you'll benefit a lot in terms of independence from having a student job.

(I worked along my studies during 17 years so I know it's possible and I studied engineering and medicine, so if I can do it...)

I think your second message shows your willingness to learn and it's awesome for me to read. Also I think what's at stake for you in this period of life is the transition to adulthood. So every step you can take in this direction (of independence) is great. When I talk about adulthood I mean mentally and emotionally. And it does not stop at 25 or 30, it's a long journey to become an adult. So again we're all in the same boat here.

And if we go back to going one day abroad alone with the money you earned: what a self-signal! The self-signal of earning your own money is so important for self-development that I think it's actually more important than the money itself. Believe it or not.

Off-topic

On the topic of being offended for our own good. I personally lose respect for the person if I took the risk of risking the relationship/rapport with the person for them and they don't see it. Then for me we cannot be close friends.

Example: I risked telling a friend that he should think well before having children/house with his GF. They were having quite frequent fights and I saw him cry a lot and be really disturbed by this manipulative woman. When I told him I thought he took it well. Of course I was diplomatic walking on egg shells and all.

Several week laters he told me in an indirect was that basically it was like I attacked him. It hurt me as I took risks to tell him something that I thought could be beneficial for him. Lost respect for him, took some distance. He's now a friend not a close friend anymore. But it's actually the proper distance with him so no regrets.

After that I also learned that when people are in love they won't even listen to their friends. So all good. I also learned that if a friend tells that to me I hope I'll thank him for giving me this high-risk advice and interpret it as well-meaning.

/Off-topic

Thanks for the response John.

Couldn't agree more with you. About working, I've already thought about working while studying but probably in the last year of the degree. If I were to work while studying, it would break havoc in my family considering how the dynamic is set right now.

However slowly pushing the idea that I'll start working in the last year of the degree would make it easier for my parents and relatives to accept it without getting anxious and obsessed with it. Wouldn't be the first time I've done it.

About accepting insecurities. I always think it's a shame when what could be/could've been good friendships get ruined because of a person unwilling to change and face his deepest fears, deep down those guys are cowards.

they treat you as a teen because you allow them to treat you as a teen. You're the only one who's responsible for your independence, not them. That is what adulthood is. So I get it it's complicated. You'll have to let some leisures on the side and some free time. That's the price of independence

Fully agree with that. I've already found ways to be more independent that include studying as much as I would want to, what I need to do is start doing them.

Cheers.

Thank you for your message! I'm glad it makes sense to you. So your parents don't want you to work. That's quite interesting. Did you figure out why?

Quote from Power Duck on October 10, 2023, 11:20 am

They're really afraid I'll start working and wont  finish my studies. Right now I'm not against being maintained but I plan on working when I get to 4th year since business start hiring even if you haven't finished the degree.

Quote from John Freeman on October 10, 2023, 10:43 pm

That's important intel. So this can help you frame things you want to do by addressing it or even tell them how it will help you achieve your studies.

For instance (since we're talking about it but does not have it to be, could be something else):

I learned on the forum how to make better friends at Uni. And it helped me meet good students who are teaching me the secret of their success.

It's more difficult then to frame how working on the side will help you finish your studies. So if you happen to change your mind and do it earlier than the 4th year, it will be about asking them to trust you and showing them that

1. You can be trusted with managing studies + work: sign of reliability, being industrious, can do attitude basically a winner so they will trust you to succeed in any endeavour
2. You can actually do it: proving them wrong, strong self-signal

Here it's a reflection, not an advice. I'm exploring here their objections.

Off-topic

Could you please remind me what field you chose?

/Off-topic

Quote from Power Duck on October 10, 2023, 10:55 pm

I'm currently studying a degree in mathematics.

I'll talk about maybe working before 4th year from time to time even if I don't actually do it, as you say who knows if in the future I'll think different, also persuading them and testing their reactions could serve as a learning opportunity even if I don't actually work before 4th year..

Cheers.

Quote from Maverick on November 3, 2023, 1:37 am

Hi Power Duck

I had seen this topic and had been meaning to answer, but right now I'm not sure if my answers are going to be valid since the situation might have changed, I had faced a similar situation back a couple of years ago, I wanted to exercise my independence and authority, but was financially dependent, so in reality did not have much choice, and like you was not in a situation to work.

Back then one method that seemed to work well for me was collaboration, I recognized the need of my family to watch out for me, more than control my actions they were genuinely looking out for me , which might be the case in your family too.

Perhaps  in your case, you could ask your parents to let you go, and talk to them about their concerns, and could potentially solve one of their concerns by arranging a zoom call of your parents with Lucio and and the other members ( if they are okay with that) this ensures you are taking the initiative and setting the frames rather than reacting to the ones they set.After the meeting it will be easier to convince them, and if they still are not convinced it becomes easier to answer specific concerns rathe r than general  ones., and if needed you can always give perhaps Lucio or the other members ( with their express permission of course ) contact details to your parents. That is what I used to do.

I hope this helps your situation PD

Cheers Mav