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Power showdown & frame control: this time, it worked (text example)

In a previous topic, I showed an example where instead of taking an early loss, I escalated the frame battle to a power showdown.

The girl refused to submit, and the interaction was lost.

But remember: you shouldn't rush to judge choices based on single-instances results, but based what made sense before the events unfolded and, of course, on results based on large samples -something you can't always do-.
So I still believe that, sometimes, you're better off risking it.

This time, it was a similar situation, but worked much better:

Me: (...) + 2 points for N

This was a slight power move from my side, and setting up a judge frame, of course.

If she accepts it, I'm in the leadership position already, and things would look super good from the start.

Frankly, in hindsight, it might have been too big of a risk, since the lady seemed smart. And, as a rule of thumb, smart ladies are more likely to read power dynamics well, and refuse too big and too early submissions (unless they're so into the guy, of course, but that's not the norm).

Her: "I'm not a thing on the market to be evaluated"

She sees that. In a way, good: a smart girl, I like it.

Unluckily though, she challenges in a rather brusque and slightly rude fashion, which in my opinion raises a first red flag as a bad prospect for dating and, even more, for a relationship.

I was slightly turned off.

Power Showdown

Now it's either I backtrack on her unfriendly tone, or I stick to my guns.

My "way to take a compliment" seeks a middle way. I indirectly say it was a compliment, but also accuses her of a bad attitude.

It's a small power showdown.
It's either she backtracks, accepts my frame, or apologizes... Or she sticks to her guns and it's over.

Albeit it's not a huge power showdown, as we've said a few times, early relationships are fragile. So this is a huge power showdown for the circumstances.
If she refused to backtrack, our exchange will likely be already over.

 

 

 

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KellvoJohn FreemanStef
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Very intriguing. I am fascinated by the way battles take place everyday, even on the smallest scale. Having faced similar, this was clearly a no-win situation. The reason is because it could have gone one of three ways:

  1. She repels the low-yield incursion (control move) and retaliates in a way that leaves bad blood. A peacemaking/deescalating frame from that point would have been seen as submission, destroying attraction.
  2. The opposite, standing your ground and escalating in turn, would spike attraction if you win - even if you lose, it often gains respect - but establishes the frame of a combative relationship that is unhealthy not only for your love life, but life in general.
  3. Strategically retreat while minimizing losses and counterattacking. What Lucio did, and definitely the healthiest of the three here.

With that said, she also could have deescalated after. However, the social scalping displayed - rubbing her victory in and showing sadism (devil smilie) - is definitely a good reason to sever her from anyone's life.

Quote from Kellvo on August 23, 2020, 1:23 pm

Very intriguing. I am fascinated by the way battles take place everyday, even on the smallest scale. Having faced similar, this was clearly a no-win situation. The reason is because it could have gone one of three ways:

  1. She repels the low-yield incursion (control move) and retaliates in a way that leaves bad blood. A peacemaking/deescalating frame from that point would have been seen as submission, destroying attraction.
  2. The opposite, standing your ground and escalating in turn, would spike attraction if you win - even if you lose, it often gains respect - but establishes the frame of a combative relationship that is unhealthy not only for your love life, but life in general.
  3. Strategically retreat while minimizing losses and counterattacking. What Lucio did, and definitely the healthiest of the three here.

With that said, she also could have deescalated after. However, the social scalping displayed - rubbing her victory in and showing sadism (devil smilie) - is definitely a good reason to sever her from anyone's life.

Great analysis, Kellvo.

Escalating further has higher chances in person, but very low chances via text.

Overall, a bad prospect for win-win dating and, even more, win-win relationships.
One might still pursue for dating if attractive enough and/or for experience, and/or if no other prospects are around, but should still keep in mind that it's probably a bad prospect.

Sometimes, it's great when someone feels they have so much power that they can mean/bitch. It's the perfect occasion to observe and assess.
As someone said, it's when someone has power over you that you truly see who they really are.

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KellvoStef
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Guys if some of you know spanish or can get somoene to translate this video, you may enjoy it, the guy is good at holding frame

They call him "god level lawyer"

jajaja

some quotes:

-"A car at high speed is a letal weapon"

  • It may be for you, in the legal sense there is no inclusion of cars as weapons, those are only vehicles for transportation.

"Thank you for explaining the obvious"

  • If it where so obvious I would not have to explain it to you

" the mothers of car crash victims can explain you how a car is a weapon"

  • Whoever you believe can give me classes I don care at all, I can bring you here the mothers of people who are in jail be faulty accusations"

 

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Stef on September 2, 2020, 3:32 am

some quotes:

-"A car at high speed is a letal weapon"

  • It may be for you, in the legal sense there is no inclusion of cars as weapons, those are only vehicles for transportation.

"Thank you for explaining the obvious"

  • If it where so obvious I would not have to explain it to you

" the mothers of car crash victims can explain you how a car is a weapon"

  • Whoever you believe can give me classes I don care at all, I can bring you here the mothers of people who are in jail be faulty accusations"

Very interesting way of arguing and winning the frame.

The first one, we could call it a "rule-based reframing".

Such as, instead of admitting the obvious, that a speeding car can kill people, you refuse the premise on the basis that a car is not a weapon.

It can become very hard to argue with these people.

On the other hand, the person using this type of arguing can lose the audience's goodwill, as most people watching the exchange will know that he is playing for dominance only, and many people respect but don't like those who seek dominance and victory no matter what since they are win-lose players.

 

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