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Power vacuum in a social group: case study

#1 · October 20, 2023, 2:15 pm

Quote from John Freeman on October 20, 2023, 2:15 pm
Hello TPM community,
I was going to post this in this thread about WA groups. Then I realized it's a case of power vacuum (below: 2nd episode).
As a reminder, when I ostracized Nasty social climber A. from our social group, instead of booting him out of the WA group (I did not want to look like I was a tyrant), I destroyed the group. Since there was a lot of social climbing in the WA group that I was not able to defend, it was also a cop out. Now I feel more able to self-defend in a WA group.
So this post is a caveat on my general statement: "WhatsApp groups are detrimental".
Current situation
My group of friends is a group of 6 people that I put together: 2 friends + 2 friends + 1 friend + me. So basically 3 groups of friends together.
The current social dynamics is that one of my friends (Nelson) whom I added to the group has grown closer to 2 of my friends. I knew from the start that he would bond with them as his social strategy is charm. He's self-deprecating a lot and does not care when people social climb on him. So he does not care about status. That's how he can enter easily social group. He's the happy fun-loving naive guy who's not a threat to anyone's status. So he gets invited a lot as basically his (unconscious) strategy is to be a social peg so people can feel at ease and like him. So approval seeking a lot. That's how I knew he would make closer friends within the group even before he even entered it.
I personally let go a lot of the leadership of this group. At the beginning I was adamant to be the leader and be in charge.
I learned (I think it was @kavalier) that it was shared leadership between friends in a social group. This was a game changer as it removed a lot of the competitive spirit that I was responsible for bringing in the group (but was not aware until then). So it's more friendly and fluid within the group. Paradoxically I am now better able to influence the group when necessary (influencing the frame towards respect and win-win while still keeping it fun).
So this background is important I think to explain the next phase.
So I did not have any permanent WA group for our group of friends that I put together. I think it's important for the follow-up dynamics since I'm the common denominator.
My friend Frank created a group called "Spring is there" to invite us to his home for a meal in spring of this year.
Since there was no group anymore to communicate among all of us, he used it for subsequent events and for funny/daily communications.
So this group became the de facto WA group for our group. Through repeated interactions it cemented it as our official WA group.
Of course I understood that this situation made me lose some status and power. However I thought: "let it go, what matters is that there is a WA group. It does not matter who created it".
But I changed my mind. It does matter.
So now our common WA group is the one created by Frank.
2nd episode: Surf holidays
Today in the common WA group:
Nelson: yo guys little afterwork at my place this evening, we're going to plan the surf holidays if you're up for it.
I never heard of surf holidays. So I was obviously not included in the plan. Of course I was a bit pissed off as I felt betrayed.
In order not to lose power and look like an outgroup by posting in the common group: "what surf holidays?" I contact Nelson in private:
Me: Hello Nelson surf holidays? (going low investment)
Nelson: we're going to organize this with Frank and Rebecca (Frank's GF).
Nelson: JB and Bernard looked like they were up for it.
So here we can see Nelson's social strategy: after having entered the group through me and gaining status through being close to me, he's taking the lead while excluding me of the event. As a reminder we recently talked on the phone and Nelson told me that Frank commented on my post on Linkedin in "one of the groups we have where you're not present"
So now we have a pattern of ostracization. It's not too bad yet but it smells real fishy.
Also, he speaks with little investment, not excusing himself for not inviting him nor talking about it to me. So poor friend behaviour.
My strategy
Well, now basically I consider him a frienemy. I cannot trust him as before. So basically I'm going to invite him less. That's why I'm cautious about WA group. Once the person's in it's a nightmare to get the person out. That's the advantage of not being the owner of the group.
Now since I think it's not cool if I want to be high power I have to confront him. Again, my fear of rejection comes out and I'm afraid of being rejected for confronting him. But I'll do so. The issue is doing it with tact.
Me: Hello Nelson surf holidays? (going low investment)
Nelson: we're going to organize this with Frank and Rebecca (Frank's GF).
Nelson: JB and Bernard looked like they were up for it.
Me: alright, I'm a bit surprised you did not told me
I think this would be the high power way of doing it.
However, I have to be careful because Frank is probably pissed off against me for some reason if he talks shit about me behind my back in another WA group. I don't know if it's his GF or some other thing. I know he got closer to Nelson but that's it. Now that I think of it, it's probably Frank and Rebecca who initiated the idea. I don't know.
How can I improve myself and/or my behavior to not receive those power moves anymore?
Well, basically I left a power vacuum. So if I want to avoid it I have to be more present in the group and organize more stuff. Since I recently self-improved and I'm more self-reliant and I saw that my friends are not the people where I can open my heart, I took some distance. I also now see them not as high quality as I first thought when I met them (one-upping me, honesty issues: the stealing, etc.). It's not major but I do admit it bothers me. Some of it is human nature, some of it is character. So that means also probably being more humble and inclusive rather than becoming arrogant. Along with my recent degree and the subliminals, I do feel a recent surge in ego and confidence.
Was that power move well-called for?
Yes it is. I understand that I'm working more often and care less about my friends, I left a power vacuum. I like them less. We laugh a lot when we're having a night out but I'm not thinking about them in between as I used to.
Now, as before it's about the "how". And it's not cool. I don't mind at all him organizing things, even surf holidays. What I don't like is that he's not including me and even when I had him on the phone he did not talked to me about it. So machiavellian from him. Hence me being attentive to what's happening.
Also I knew from the start when I included him that he was going to get closer to them. What I was not ready for was him trying to exclude me.
It's not the first time this happens. I created several groups (friends, etc.) over the years. I already observed this dynamics in groups of friends and associations. I create a group that has value. Someone spot the social value in it and wants to take it for himself. I had this situation 4-5 times already.
So I understand that the power vaccum gets filled but I think it's nasty how he does it. That's not what a friend would do.
I went to feed his cat and pet it the other day while he was on holiday. I always treated him well apart from the usual teasing (that he accepts). It's someone I talk with on the phone for 1 hour about once a month. And we used to talk about our lives. We did some activities only us 2 (hiking, etc.). So yes I feel betrayed by Nelson and Frank.
Frank I already knew he shat (along with Rebecca) behind Bernard's back. I actually supported Bernard and encouraged him to forgive them and mend the friendship with Frank. Advice he followed. And now he's also not including me. Not cool at all.
Anyway, here I see turkey behaviour and selfishness of human nature. It's alright I'm used to it.
Thank you for reading this (very) long post.
As always I'm curious to know if you guys have any comment on it.
Maybe I'm lacking some social intelligence and have a blind spot and I'm missing the big picture or an important info. If I'm taking something personally that is not or over-interpreting/misinterpreting.

Hello TPM community,

I was going to post this in this thread about WA groups. Then I realized it's a case of power vacuum (below: 2nd episode).

As a reminder, when I ostracized Nasty social climber A. from our social group, instead of booting him out of the WA group (I did not want to look like I was a tyrant), I destroyed the group. Since there was a lot of social climbing in the WA group that I was not able to defend, it was also a cop out. Now I feel more able to self-defend in a WA group.

So this post is a caveat on my general statement: "WhatsApp groups are detrimental".

Current situation

My group of friends is a group of 6 people that I put together: 2 friends + 2 friends + 1 friend + me. So basically 3 groups of friends together.

The current social dynamics is that one of my friends (Nelson) whom I added to the group has grown closer to 2 of my friends. I knew from the start that he would bond with them as his social strategy is charm. He's self-deprecating a lot and does not care when people social climb on him. So he does not care about status. That's how he can enter easily social group. He's the happy fun-loving naive guy who's not a threat to anyone's status. So he gets invited a lot as basically his (unconscious) strategy is to be a social peg so people can feel at ease and like him. So approval seeking a lot. That's how I knew he would make closer friends within the group even before he even entered it.

I personally let go a lot of the leadership of this group. At the beginning I was adamant to be the leader and be in charge.

I learned (I think it was @kavalier) that it was shared leadership between friends in a social group. This was a game changer as it removed a lot of the competitive spirit that I was responsible for bringing in the group (but was not aware until then). So it's more friendly and fluid within the group. Paradoxically I am now better able to influence the group when necessary (influencing the frame towards respect and win-win while still keeping it fun).

So this background is important I think to explain the next phase.

So I did not have any permanent WA group for our group of friends that I put together. I think it's important for the follow-up dynamics since I'm the common denominator.

My friend Frank created a group called "Spring is there" to invite us to his home for a meal in spring of this year.

Since there was no group anymore to communicate among all of us, he used it for subsequent events and for funny/daily communications.

So this group became the de facto WA group for our group. Through repeated interactions it cemented it as our official WA group.

Of course I understood that this situation made me lose some status and power. However I thought: "let it go, what matters is that there is a WA group. It does not matter who created it".

But I changed my mind. It does matter.

So now our common WA group is the one created by Frank.

2nd episode: Surf holidays

Today in the common WA group:

Nelson: yo guys little afterwork at my place this evening, we're going to plan the surf holidays if you're up for it.

I never heard of surf holidays. So I was obviously not included in the plan. Of course I was a bit pissed off as I felt betrayed.

In order not to lose power and look like an outgroup by posting in the common group: "what surf holidays?" I contact Nelson in private:

Me: Hello Nelson surf holidays? (going low investment)
Nelson: we're going to organize this with Frank and Rebecca (Frank's GF).
Nelson: JB and Bernard looked like they were up for it.

So here we can see Nelson's social strategy: after having entered the group through me and gaining status through being close to me, he's taking the lead while excluding me of the event. As a reminder we recently talked on the phone and Nelson told me that Frank commented on my post on Linkedin in "one of the groups we have where you're not present"

So now we have a pattern of ostracization. It's not too bad yet but it smells real fishy.

Also, he speaks with little investment, not excusing himself for not inviting him nor talking about it to me. So poor friend behaviour.

My strategy

Well, now basically I consider him a frienemy. I cannot trust him as before. So basically I'm going to invite him less. That's why I'm cautious about WA group. Once the person's in it's a nightmare to get the person out. That's the advantage of not being the owner of the group.

Now since I think it's not cool if I want to be high power I have to confront him. Again, my fear of rejection comes out and I'm afraid of being rejected for confronting him. But I'll do so. The issue is doing it with tact.

Me: Hello Nelson surf holidays? (going low investment)
Nelson: we're going to organize this with Frank and Rebecca (Frank's GF).
Nelson: JB and Bernard looked like they were up for it.
Me: alright, I'm a bit surprised you did not told me

I think this would be the high power way of doing it.

However, I have to be careful because Frank is probably pissed off against me for some reason if he talks shit about me behind my back in another WA group. I don't know if it's his GF or some other thing. I know he got closer to Nelson but that's it. Now that I think of it, it's probably Frank and Rebecca who initiated the idea. I don't know.

How can I improve myself and/or my behavior to not receive those power moves anymore?

Well, basically I left a power vacuum. So if I want to avoid it I have to be more present in the group and organize more stuff. Since I recently self-improved and I'm more self-reliant and I saw that my friends are not the people where I can open my heart, I took some distance. I also now see them not as high quality as I first thought when I met them (one-upping me, honesty issues: the stealing, etc.). It's not major but I do admit it bothers me. Some of it is human nature, some of it is character. So that means also probably being more humble and inclusive rather than becoming arrogant. Along with my recent degree and the subliminals, I do feel a recent surge in ego and confidence.

Was that power move well-called for?

Yes it is. I understand that I'm working more often and care less about my friends, I left a power vacuum. I like them less. We laugh a lot when we're having a night out but I'm not thinking about them in between as I used to.

Now, as before it's about the "how". And it's not cool. I don't mind at all him organizing things, even surf holidays. What I don't like is that he's not including me and even when I had him on the phone he did not talked to me about it. So machiavellian from him. Hence me being attentive to what's happening.

Also I knew from the start when I included him that he was going to get closer to them. What I was not ready for was him trying to exclude me.

It's not the first time this happens. I created several groups (friends, etc.) over the years. I already observed this dynamics in groups of friends and associations. I create a group that has value. Someone spot the social value in it and wants to take it for himself. I had this situation 4-5 times already.

So I understand that the power vaccum gets filled but I think it's nasty how he does it. That's not what a friend would do.

I went to feed his cat and pet it the other day while he was on holiday. I always treated him well apart from the usual teasing (that he accepts). It's someone I talk with on the phone for 1 hour about once a month. And we used to talk about our lives. We did some activities only us 2 (hiking, etc.). So yes I feel betrayed by Nelson and Frank.

Frank I already knew he shat (along with Rebecca) behind Bernard's back. I actually supported Bernard and encouraged him to forgive them and mend the friendship with Frank. Advice he followed. And now he's also not including me. Not cool at all.

Anyway, here I see turkey behaviour and selfishness of human nature. It's alright I'm used to it.

Thank you for reading this (very) long post.

As always I'm curious to know if you guys have any comment on it.

Maybe I'm lacking some social intelligence and have a blind spot and I'm missing the big picture or an important info. If I'm taking something personally that is not or over-interpreting/misinterpreting.

Lucio Buffalmano, Matthew Whitewood and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

#2 · October 20, 2023, 4:29 pm

Hey John,

This was a good and instructive post to read, thank you for sharing.

Hard to give much advice here without having been there and with so many things one could comment on.

At this point here:

Quote from John Freeman on October 20, 2023, 2:15 pm
Of course I understood that this situation made me lose some status and power. However I thought: "let it go, what matters is that there is a WA group. It does not matter who created it".
But I changed my mind. It does matter.

Made me laugh and nod because it's exactly what I was also thinking:

Yes I agree, it does matter indeed :).

Some random thoughts:

It's possible you lost some social capital when you were competing for the leader position
It's possible people smelled the "strategic predisposition" behind your moves, which make one come across as less natural/straight
It's possible people feel the "high-investment" into being liked/part of the group, while instead just like with women the "I like you but don't (strictly) need you" approach is often superior.
For example, I may have not asked "what's that surfing holiday" at all, just to show that I don't care/I'm not too invested and I'm easygoing and not going to chase people for whatever side convo they may be having (but then again, in some other circumstances I may have asked, so it also depends on the situation of course)

As usual, wasn't there, haven't watched any live interaction, so I'm just shooting in the dark.

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#3 · October 20, 2023, 5:17 pm

Quote from John Freeman on October 20, 2023, 5:17 pm
Hey Lucio,
thank you very much. As you know your feed-back is much valued.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 20, 2023, 4:29 pm
Quote from John Freeman on October 20, 2023, 2:15 pm
Of course I understood that this situation made me lose some status and power. However I thought: "let it go, what matters is that there is a WA group. It does not matter who created it".
But I changed my mind. It does matter.
Made me laugh and nod because it's exactly what I was also thinking:
Yes I agree, it does matter indeed :).
Yeah that was a leadership mistake. Lesson learned. The situation was between a rock and a hard place. I did not want to experience what happened earlier so I avoided the WA group. Now I think it's important to have a WA group for your group of friends BUT with social policing. I think it's also important to make everyone admin as people feel otherwise it's not their group and the leader is a tyrant (from previous indirect feed-backs).
Some random thoughts:
It's possible you lost some social capital when you were competing for the leader position
It's possible people smelled the "strategic predisposition" behind your moves, which make one come across as less natural/straight
Very probable for both. Since about 6-8 months I dialed down the machiavellianism a lot. I use it now very sparsely. So I was earlier in a much more machiavellian phase and I'm sure people could feel it. For my birthday they offered me a board game that is played on the long term (like the one we played for 2.5 years) since they loved so much the previous one. They said: "it's a little bit a gift for us". I got amazing comments on my birthday card and even got called "game master", etc. So I think people like me. BUT to them I'm the board game guy. It's funny because people meet you in phase A, B, C of your life and they think it's your identity. Anyway, I do the same. So no biggies.
It's possible people feel the "high-investment" into being liked/part of the group, while instead just like with women the "I like you but don't (strictly) need you" approach is often superior.
For example, I may have not asked "what's that surfing holiday" at all, just to show that I don't care/I'm not too invested and I'm easygoing and not going to chase people for whatever side convo they may be having (but then again, in some other circumstances I may have asked, so it also depends on the situation of course)
Yep, 100%. Hence my post on seeking approval in my journal. I'm working on it. I noticed I'm much more in demand since I'm not so much proactive. It's not a strategy but a reflection of my priorities and desires. So if only for my own happiness.
After reading your remark. 2 thoughts: 1. so I introduce them to one another, I invite them to countless events since 3 years and now they don't invite me (taking it personnally). 2. Who cares? (detachment)
As usual, wasn't there, haven't watched any live interaction, so I'm just shooting in the dark.
Well, I would say it's very helpful. Just like you I'm not 100% sure what's going on. When it's like that and I feel something is fishy it's usually that there are rumours spreading (OR shifting alliances): when people suddendly change attitude and there is no specific event to trigger it.
Your post helped me to take more perspective on it and not take it too seriously.

Hey Lucio,

thank you very much. As you know your feed-back is much valued.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 20, 2023, 4:29 pm
Quote from John Freeman on October 20, 2023, 2:15 pm
Of course I understood that this situation made me lose some status and power. However I thought: "let it go, what matters is that there is a WA group. It does not matter who created it".
But I changed my mind. It does matter.
Made me laugh and nod because it's exactly what I was also thinking:
Yes I agree, it does matter indeed :).

Yeah that was a leadership mistake. Lesson learned. The situation was between a rock and a hard place. I did not want to experience what happened earlier so I avoided the WA group. Now I think it's important to have a WA group for your group of friends BUT with social policing. I think it's also important to make everyone admin as people feel otherwise it's not their group and the leader is a tyrant (from previous indirect feed-backs).

Some random thoughts:
It's possible you lost some social capital when you were competing for the leader position
It's possible people smelled the "strategic predisposition" behind your moves, which make one come across as less natural/straight

Very probable for both. Since about 6-8 months I dialed down the machiavellianism a lot. I use it now very sparsely. So I was earlier in a much more machiavellian phase and I'm sure people could feel it. For my birthday they offered me a board game that is played on the long term (like the one we played for 2.5 years) since they loved so much the previous one. They said: "it's a little bit a gift for us". I got amazing comments on my birthday card and even got called "game master", etc. So I think people like me. BUT to them I'm the board game guy. It's funny because people meet you in phase A, B, C of your life and they think it's your identity. Anyway, I do the same. So no biggies.

It's possible people feel the "high-investment" into being liked/part of the group, while instead just like with women the "I like you but don't (strictly) need you" approach is often superior.
For example, I may have not asked "what's that surfing holiday" at all, just to show that I don't care/I'm not too invested and I'm easygoing and not going to chase people for whatever side convo they may be having (but then again, in some other circumstances I may have asked, so it also depends on the situation of course)

Yep, 100%. Hence my post on seeking approval in my journal. I'm working on it. I noticed I'm much more in demand since I'm not so much proactive. It's not a strategy but a reflection of my priorities and desires. So if only for my own happiness.

After reading your remark. 2 thoughts: 1. so I introduce them to one another, I invite them to countless events since 3 years and now they don't invite me (taking it personnally). 2. Who cares? (detachment)

As usual, wasn't there, haven't watched any live interaction, so I'm just shooting in the dark.

Well, I would say it's very helpful. Just like you I'm not 100% sure what's going on. When it's like that and I feel something is fishy it's usually that there are rumours spreading (OR shifting alliances): when people suddendly change attitude and there is no specific event to trigger it.

Your post helped me to take more perspective on it and not take it too seriously.

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#4 · October 20, 2023, 7:44 pm

Alright, after some thoughts it seems that I lost status as Lucio pointed out.

I don't know exactly why or how.

So I can regain it (If I want).

Regarding the WhatsApp group. I don't think I can correct it without looking too machiavellian. I created a group for our board games but if I start to use it like this it will look competitive and I'm back to square one. So I think it's better to lose some status in the group for losing the WhatsApp group than trying to compete with another group and lose even more status.

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#5 · October 21, 2023, 9:26 am

Also, one more important root question one may ask:

Are we being good friends?

Becuase, usually, if we are, people will want to include you and seek you out.

You say you want to be one, so you got the "raw material" to be one.
But actualizing that good intent may require some skills/behaviors that still need to be incorporated.

Edit:
Of course exceptions always apply and one can try to ostracize someone else because the target in indeed a better man and makes them feel not good enough or because they're threatened or competing for something (a woman, work advancement, the group leadership, etc.).
But I wouldn't necessarily start with these cases as the first-level analysis, and those can be addressed/prevented as well with good strategies.

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#6 · October 21, 2023, 10:18 am

Hello Lucio,

thank you very much. I realized I jumped to conclusions.

I’ll post more details later.

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#7 · October 21, 2023, 8:40 pm

Quote from John Freeman on October 21, 2023, 8:40 pm
Hello Lucio,
Thank you very much for your answer.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 21, 2023, 9:26 am
Also, one more important root question one may ask:
Are we being good friends?
After yesterday evening I think we are.
Becuase, usually, if we are, people will want to include you and seek you out.
You say you want to be one, so you got the "raw material" to be one.
But actualizing that good intent may require some skills/behaviors that still need to be incorporated.
Definitely. That's why I think insecurities an past traumas are sabotaging my relationships in general, friendships specifically.
Edit:
Of course exceptions always apply and one can try to ostracize someone else because the target in indeed a better man and makes them feel not good enough or because they're threatened or competing for something (a woman, work advancement, the group leadership, etc.).
But I wouldn't necessarily start with these cases as the first-level analysis, and those can be addressed/prevented as well with good strategies.
Yes what follows proves your intuition to be right.
Yesterday evening my friend Nelson had invited us to an afterwork to talk about the holiday.
I finished work earlier so I could go there. I did not answer in the group as I wanted to arrive as a surprise. I think I wanted to see their reaction and show that I had the power to come if I wanted to. So now that I am writing it: ego stuff. I'm being transparent but it's a bit petty I admit it.
When I arrived Nelson was pleasantly surprised to see me. He told me I should have said I was coming as there was only a little bit of pizza left. He gave it to me and re-heated the delicious pasta + meat he cooked for him for lunch. So he cared for me.
My 2 other friends Frank and Bernard were happy to see me. We had a great evening. We also opened up to one another on some topics that we did not before.
They told me they were going to surf in March and wanted to know if I could come. I'm going to Australia so I could not. They were a bit disappointed and said that the date was based on Rebecca's holiday (aligned on the manipulator GF, of course. She's higher power so she decides).
So I think these holidays were not intended to exclude me. I was wrong and a bit paranoid. I think it was a mix between bad organization and this holiday being planned around the couple (Frank + Rebecca). So they prioritize their needs and then don't care so much. I think it's more a case of selfishness than disrespect.
That being said, I still think that the leadership vaccum is probably a real thing.
What I learned from this was:
Learning power, status, manipulation and machiavellianism biased me towards seeing it when it's not always there
I probably have insecurities around my status and being disrespected. This translates in a very high sensitivity around being disrespected. It's something I thought about: respect is not only caring about people's feelings, wants and needs. It's also about status. So I want my needs, feelings and wants to be respected. I also want my status to be respected. So it's both in my case. These comes from past abused and trauma.
I have insecurity around betrayal in friendships. I have been betrayed several times when I was not as power aware as I am now. So I still carry this wound which probably distorts my perceptions. It's still not easy for me to distinguish between people social climbing and one-upping vs people just having normal human flaws.
I still have trust issues. If I could not trust my friends in the past and I could not trust my family who can I trust? So I think it's still an unconscious process in my mind.
I jumped to conclusions: I interpreted clues as directed against me.
So I understand I have good friends. They're not perfect but nor am I. I do have high standards for my friends as I've been disappointed in the past. So all these factors mixed together created this perception.
I cannot always have the deep complex conversations I like with them. But it's ok. I can have them here and with another friend.
So this episode was a huge self-development opportunity as I could identify insecurities I need to work on.
I hope you could also learn something from this episode.
Thanks.

Hello Lucio,

Thank you very much for your answer.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 21, 2023, 9:26 am
Also, one more important root question one may ask:
Are we being good friends?

After yesterday evening I think we are.

Becuase, usually, if we are, people will want to include you and seek you out.
You say you want to be one, so you got the "raw material" to be one.
But actualizing that good intent may require some skills/behaviors that still need to be incorporated.

Definitely. That's why I think insecurities an past traumas are sabotaging my relationships in general, friendships specifically.

Edit:
Of course exceptions always apply and one can try to ostracize someone else because the target in indeed a better man and makes them feel not good enough or because they're threatened or competing for something (a woman, work advancement, the group leadership, etc.).
But I wouldn't necessarily start with these cases as the first-level analysis, and those can be addressed/prevented as well with good strategies.

Yes what follows proves your intuition to be right.

Yesterday evening my friend Nelson had invited us to an afterwork to talk about the holiday.

I finished work earlier so I could go there. I did not answer in the group as I wanted to arrive as a surprise. I think I wanted to see their reaction and show that I had the power to come if I wanted to. So now that I am writing it: ego stuff. I'm being transparent but it's a bit petty I admit it.

When I arrived Nelson was pleasantly surprised to see me. He told me I should have said I was coming as there was only a little bit of pizza left. He gave it to me and re-heated the delicious pasta + meat he cooked for him for lunch. So he cared for me.

My 2 other friends Frank and Bernard were happy to see me. We had a great evening. We also opened up to one another on some topics that we did not before.

They told me they were going to surf in March and wanted to know if I could come. I'm going to Australia so I could not. They were a bit disappointed and said that the date was based on Rebecca's holiday (aligned on the manipulator GF, of course. She's higher power so she decides).

So I think these holidays were not intended to exclude me. I was wrong and a bit paranoid. I think it was a mix between bad organization and this holiday being planned around the couple (Frank + Rebecca). So they prioritize their needs and then don't care so much. I think it's more a case of selfishness than disrespect.

That being said, I still think that the leadership vaccum is probably a real thing.

What I learned from this was:

Learning power, status, manipulation and machiavellianism biased me towards seeing it when it's not always there
I probably have insecurities around my status and being disrespected. This translates in a very high sensitivity around being disrespected. It's something I thought about: respect is not only caring about people's feelings, wants and needs. It's also about status. So I want my needs, feelings and wants to be respected. I also want my status to be respected. So it's both in my case. These comes from past abused and trauma.
I have insecurity around betrayal in friendships. I have been betrayed several times when I was not as power aware as I am now. So I still carry this wound which probably distorts my perceptions. It's still not easy for me to distinguish between people social climbing and one-upping vs people just having normal human flaws.
I still have trust issues. If I could not trust my friends in the past and I could not trust my family who can I trust? So I think it's still an unconscious process in my mind.
I jumped to conclusions: I interpreted clues as directed against me.

So I understand I have good friends. They're not perfect but nor am I. I do have high standards for my friends as I've been disappointed in the past. So all these factors mixed together created this perception.

I cannot always have the deep complex conversations I like with them. But it's ok. I can have them here and with another friend.

So this episode was a huge self-development opportunity as I could identify insecurities I need to work on.

I hope you could also learn something from this episode.

Thanks.

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#8 · October 21, 2023, 9:53 pm

To be clear I meant: I hope you guys learned something from this episode.

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#9 · October 22, 2023, 10:49 pm

I cannot always have the deep complex conversations I like with them. But it's ok. I can have them here and with another friend.

I feel that this could be an important point to note.

As you have noted, Nelson may have closer 1-to-1 friendships with the others in the group.
So it's also natural for him to converse with others privately.

It could be the case that they were vibing in private and the topic of surfing came up.
So the idea bounced around, but it somehow didn't include you.

Regarding this response with Nelson in private,

Me: Hello Nelson surf holidays? (going low investment)

I don't think the going low investment would work in this case.
The surfing plan has already been set in motion.
It's a bit like trying to poke a car with your finger to change its direction.

On the other hand, if you know the others don't like surfing and Nelson suggests surfing, then this may work.
However, this doesn't seem to be the case here.

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#10 · October 24, 2023, 9:42 am

Hello Matthew,

Thank you very much for your answer. My apologies for the delay. I'll do better next time.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on October 22, 2023, 10:49 pm
I cannot always have the deep complex conversations I like with them. But it's ok. I can have them here and with another friend.
I feel that this could be an important point to note.
As you have noted, Nelson may have closer 1-to-1 friendships with the others in the group.
So it's also natural for him to converse with others privately.

Yes you're right. When I saw that my friends could not be as close as I thought they could be I stepped back. So the leadership vacuum started as a friendship vacuum. If they're friends only for fun, then they're not a priority anymore in my life and I prioritize my goals.

It could be the case that they were vibing in private and the topic of surfing came up.
So the idea bounced around, but it somehow didn't include you.

Yes i think this is what happened.

Regarding this response with Nelson in private,
Me: Hello Nelson surf holidays? (going low investment)
I don't think the going low investment would work in this case.
The surfing plan has already been set in motion.
It's a bit like trying to poke a car with your finger to change its direction.
On the other hand, if you know the others don't like surfing and Nelson suggests surfing, then this may work.
However, this doesn't seem to be the case here.

Yes you're right. There was no benefit in using low investment here. Either I wanted to know more or I would have let it go.

Thanks a lot!

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