Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
Group conversations: when people draw public attention to your behavior (Host behavior)
Hey so I have a few questions:
- What would you do if someone speculates what you're thinking, out loud? For example, you're with 2 of your friends and one of them is making a joke, but you don't think it's funny so you don't laugh, and so he'll say jokingly: "Wil is like 'what the fuck is wrong with these people?"' I know it is probably a sign of submission on his part because he's saying that in a way to get me to verbalize what I really think to get confirmation that I'm ok with the joke. I'll usually reply with either what I'm thinking or humor to put them at ease:
- "No worries man, I've just had a long day"
- "Yeah you guys are pretty messed up...and that's why we're friends"
Another example is when I'm at work and my boss is explaining to me how the company works and what actually happens in the back and why our operation is inefficient or whatever. His boss will also be present. I'll usually have kind of a blank expression and be silent because I'm thinking, and he'll say "He's thinking 'What did I get myself into?'". I'll just say "nah, i'm just thinking"
- I notice that when I make a joke and notice that my friend's reaction sometimes I'll say "no I'm joking". Yes it is a sign of submission, but is it best to just say nothing if your friend looks uncomfortable? Or most of the time it will be the other way around and my friends will say "no I'm joking", and I'll reply "no worries, it's all good"
- I've noticed that I have really bad timing when interjecting into group conversations, it seems like every time I want to interject, I interrupt the someone else. This is especially bad when I'm at work and I don't want to encroach on my boss's or the senior manager's voice at a meeting (plus their voice is usually louder than mine and will easily drown it out). Are there some nonverbal signs you can give off before you speak so that you don't interrupt someone else?
Thanks!
Very interesting situation, I love this case study!
I'm still on mobile only and will answer in the next days.
In the meanwhile, if anyone has any idea about this situation, give it a try to answer it.
P.S.: I greyed out the other questions. Let's keep each topic with one topic only or it gets messy. I will write some brief forum "best use" guide soon.
I think he should be more careful to treat his boss better, more preferentially.
Never outshine your master comes to mind
Quote from Guest on January 28, 2020, 2:37 amI think he should be more careful to treat his boss better, more preferentially.
Never outshine your master comes to mind
That's part of it.
And how about the general power dynamics there?
Is it really submissive to say this:
Wil is like 'what the fuck is wrong with these people?
Or any similar format?
And how about the general power dynamics there?
Is it really submissive to say this:
Originally, I thought it could be submissive because, my friend is only saying that because my response to his joke was unfavorable to him (I didn't laugh). But I realize that after saying something like that, he puts the ball in my court to answer, and if I answer, it means I've submitted to him. If I don't answer, then my silence will make it appear as if he read my mind.
I think he should be more careful to treat his boss better, more preferentially.
Never outshine your master comes to mind
What would treating my boss better mean in this situation?
The way you're answering now doesn't sound like you respect him enough, especially if in the presence of his own boss. Bosses like to feel respected.
Alright, so here it is:
This is typical behavior of what in Social Power I call "the host".
#1. Entry in "how power sounds".
Not only that's dominant, but it's dominant in a very good way.
This is what's happening from a social dynamics point of view:
1. You're Being Incongruent With Your Nonverbals (Possibly Breaking Rapport)
When a friend is making a joke the social expectation is that one:
- Will laugh if it's funny
- Will offer a smile if it's not funny
The smile servers to communicate that you understand they were trying to be funny, and that you respect them enough to offer a reaction.
When you don't offer any reaction, you send the signal that you're either not getting the social mood, or that you don't respect them enough to even curl your lips up a bit.
2. They're Drawing Attention to It to Alleviate the Social Pressure
When they draw attention to your incongruent behavior, they are doing a great job as "the host".
Just imagine this scene:
Guy 1: cracks a joke
Guy 2: laughs
Guy 3: stands there with serious face
Guy 3 is being a social disruptor, breaking the social flow and ruining the mood.
He is communicating that the two of them are stupid for laughing at what's not funny. And whether he is superior or just didn't get the joke, is communicating that he doesn't belong.
When guy 1 says this:
Guy 1: guy 3 must be thinking we're total idiots
He is drawing attention to the incongruence, and by doing so, he is helping to restore a good mood.
If nobody says anything, the mood stays broken.
By drawing attention to it, the host is taking charge of the situation and moving towards a solution.
3. You Either Help Him Fix The Incongruence, Or Make it Worse
Once the host draws attnetion to your behavior, then it's your turn to take the stage.
You got two options:
- Either you help him along, crack a joke on your own, take the blame, or generally show you're good with them
- You don't help him, keep your sour mood, and generally keep communicating you're not part of them
In your example, your reply does #1., and that's why it's very good:
Yeah you guys are pretty messed up...and that's why we're friends"
When you say that, you're playing along with him and you are helping him to mend the fracture.
You're taking the blame, complimenting them, and confirming the friendship.
With the other example of the boss when you say:
Nah, I'm just thinking
You are slightly turning your boss' attempt down.
Your boss was drawing attention to your behavior with a joke, but by refusing the joke, you are slightly breaking rapport.
That's why the guest was not too wrong in quoting Robert Greene's law of power #1. "never outshine the master".
But it's not that bad. Unless your boss is really thin-skinned, I wouldn't consider this a case of "Outshining The Master".
Still, you could do better in those cases.
First, by avoiding that anyone has to point out to you as spacing out, or not being in sync with the mood.
And if that happens, by getting more in sync with the mood after they call out your behavior.
In the case of your boss, you could have said:
Boss: "He's thinking 'What did I get myself into?'
You: Ahaha, all good, you guys are explaining it really well, and I want to make sure I get it, so I'm focusing 100%
In this exchange above, you avoid the "nah", which is almost always a small rapport-breaker.
With the laugh/smile instead, you accept his attempt at humor -a sign of respect and social intelligence-, compliment them -which never hurts-, and then you redirect towards your reality.
And then the rift is quickly forgotten and you're all good.
Does it make sense?
And BTW, that move you described, it's very good.
I use it all the time, even with women.
I'll give you an example:
Girl: So, what do you do actually, I don't get it
Me: Well, I write about power dynamics, social psychology, games people play. You know, bla bla bla (getting too complex)
Girl: Aha, OK (but blank stare, lost in her thoughts)
See what's happening there?
The girl might say "I understand", but she doesn't.
The social flow is broken.
If you let it slide, it also breaks rapport.
You come across as distant from her, and from her reality. Either too smart for her, or too up your ass, or talking nonsense. In either case, you don't want that.
So I draw attention to it and help us overcome the impasse:
Me: You're thinking (looks away in order not to sound too aggressive and mimicking as if she was talking to me) "what the fuck is this guy talking about". Power dynamics? What the fuck does this guy do
Girl: Ahahaha noooo, I didn't mean that ahah
I let it hang for a few more seconds of common laughter, which helps us bond.
From then on, I proceed to give a concrete and simple example, so that she understands it (BTW, I usually use a real-life example of yanking handshake power move to explain what I do, since it's easy to explain and everyone understands).
This is golden, even better than if the initial misunderstanding had never happened, because:
- Makes her laugh, lightens up the mood (always good, especially in the beginning)
- You come across as very socially intelligent, because you can see that she was pretending (women love it when a man can read her true moods and act on them)
- You act like a fun and positive leader: taking a social impasse and turning into an opportunity for fun
- You act like a socially intelligent and positive leader: moving from what was a communication breakdown, to a mutual understanding
- Uses some swear words, which I like because it sets an environment where "we can be ourselves"
Makes sense?
Yeah I just realize that when I'm with certain groups of people, I unknowingly kind of outed myself and I can even feel it. You explained it pretty clearly. Cheers.
Quote from Wil on February 1, 2020, 4:34 amYeah I just realize that when I'm with certain groups of people, I unknowingly kind of outed myself and I can even feel it. You explained it pretty clearly. Cheers.
All the more power to you, Wil, all the more power to you.
