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Seducing 'I know my value' type fail

#1 · September 1, 2023, 4:36 pm

Quote from Mehdi ELK on September 1, 2023, 4:36 pm
Hello folks,
I've been practicing my skills using what I've learned from seduction university and I can tell my game has reached a new level. I've been more strategic in different situations and I still think there is a lot of room for improvement.
I want to share a new experience. I've recently dealt with a girl who has an extreme entitlement mentality (She expects a provider type to brought her gifts, dine and wine her, etc.). I have no problem if a girl wants to be taken care of, since the man should be the leader. However, I still think she has to provide value and invest in a way that she deserves to be taken care of.
Into ?the Get to know each other phase'. In this phase, I prefer to let the girl talk a lot without stating too much information about myself. I focus on the girl, so to speak. When discussing with this particular girl, I did not find it difficult. I find out that she has an insecurity being treated like a low-value woman, and she has a combative nature (probably from past experiences).
I decided to build comfort and a connection by focusing on our similarities. I showed much more interest tearing down her defensive walls, but I did not neglect my value aspect. When she tries to one-up or demean me, I ignore her and become less available to her. (There is other ways of course, to deal with this behavior; however, I want to limit the combative frames at the beginning to a minimum). Fast forward, she becomes more comfortable and softer with me. She started to reveal deeper layers and became more invested.
Afterward, having had a discussion over a phone call. She hinted at going to cinema to see a particular movie. I told her we should go see it together. Trying to get some compliance, I told her to check which days, they would broadcast it (since it was her idea). And there she hits me with:
Girl : I don't plan, I only get ready.
Me: Didn't ask you to plan, only to provide the information.
Girl : You know what? People will brought me gifts to go out with them, and you come tell me to check which days they'll broadcast it. If I did that, I would probably just go by myself.
Me: You take everything as a battle. Even something as small as this. If you want to go by yourself, you should probably do so. As for me, I'll go to sleep.
Girl *insults my masculinity*, and I hung up the phone.
What do you think about this experience? Had you any success with seducing this type of women? Any feedback is welcome!
PS: I'm not thinking to have a relationship with these type of girls. In fact, I drag it out with her only to test out my skill to see how much I can influence her. It was a unique experience. And I'm in point where I want to hone my social skills and drive masterfully through power dynamics, to become a real social strategist.
Cheers!

Hello folks,

I've been practicing my skills using what I've learned from seduction university and I can tell my game has reached a new level. I've been more strategic in different situations and I still think there is a lot of room for improvement.

I want to share a new experience. I've recently dealt with a girl who has an extreme entitlement mentality (She expects a provider type to brought her gifts, dine and wine her, etc.). I have no problem if a girl wants to be taken care of, since the man should be the leader. However, I still think she has to provide value and invest in a way that she deserves to be taken care of.

Into ?the Get to know each other phase'. In this phase, I prefer to let the girl talk a lot without stating too much information about myself. I focus on the girl, so to speak. When discussing with this particular girl, I did not find it difficult. I find out that she has an insecurity being treated like a low-value woman, and she has a combative nature (probably from past experiences).

I decided to build comfort and a connection by focusing on our similarities. I showed much more interest tearing down her defensive walls, but I did not neglect my value aspect. When she tries to one-up or demean me, I ignore her and become less available to her. (There is other ways of course, to deal with this behavior; however, I want to limit the combative frames at the beginning to a minimum). Fast forward, she becomes more comfortable and softer with me. She started to reveal deeper layers and became more invested.

Afterward, having had a discussion over a phone call. She hinted at going to cinema to see a particular movie. I told her we should go see it together. Trying to get some compliance, I told her to check which days, they would broadcast it (since it was her idea). And there she hits me with:

Girl : I don't plan, I only get ready.

Me: Didn't ask you to plan, only to provide the information.

Girl : You know what? People will brought me gifts to go out with them, and you come tell me to check which days they'll broadcast it. If I did that, I would probably just go by myself.

Me: You take everything as a battle. Even something as small as this. If you want to go by yourself, you should probably do so. As for me, I'll go to sleep.

Girl *insults my masculinity*, and I hung up the phone.

What do you think about this experience? Had you any success with seducing this type of women? Any feedback is welcome!

PS: I'm not thinking to have a relationship with these type of girls. In fact, I drag it out with her only to test out my skill to see how much I can influence her. It was a unique experience. And I'm in point where I want to hone my social skills and drive masterfully through power dynamics, to become a real social strategist.

Cheers!

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and 3 other users have reacted to this post.

#2 · September 1, 2023, 5:42 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 1, 2023, 5:42 pm
Interesting.
This, you know already I think:
From an already "cattier" and demanding woman, you get that 10x before you sleep with her (and the same if you sleep with her on her terms of waiting and dining and wining and doing what she says).
Quick analysis:
Quote from Mehdi ELK on September 1, 2023, 4:36 pm
Girl : I don't plan, I only get ready.
Me: Didn't ask you to plan, only to provide the information.
You were defending with the "just" format here.
Such as, you accept the initial frame that "planning" was wrong, and that you were "just" (doing something "less bad" than she was accused you of)...
Similar dynamic to this video analysis where he sounds strong, but reacts to her frame.
Quote from Mehdi ELK on September 1, 2023, 4:36 pm
Girl : You know what? People will brought me gifts to go out with them, and you come tell me to check which days they'll broadcast it. If I did that, I would probably just go by myself.
Me: You take everything as a battle. Even something as small as this. If you want to go by yourself, you should probably do so. As for me, I'll go to sleep.
Girl *insults my masculinity*, and I hung up the phone.
This one shows you had power and influence over her.
She was already making "exceptions" for you.
BUT... Not yet enough power to be a total exception, so she was still trying to push you into all the other low-power men chasing her.
As for your reply, it would have been great during a relationship, in person, or after you had already been intimate at least.
At this stage, it's a risk that breaks the interaction more often than not.
It provoked a strong reaction, which is a good sign of your power over here and can be great in the right circumstances.
But in this case, it may mean a dead interaction.
Challenging her big time was a fair option though.
I'd have said something like this:
Girl : You know what? People will brought me gifts to go out with them, and you come tell me to check which days they'll broadcast it. If I did that, I would probably just go by myself.
You: way to go girl. Here's your chance to go to the cinema with a really cool guy, and instead of showing your best side, you act like a snobby bitch
Then, let her reply.
The more she gets angry, the shorter replies you give until you say you gotta go and wish her good night before hanging up (rather than hanging up abruptly which feels reactive and not as high power. But in your case hanging up was OK).
That's the strategic way of keeping the relationship alive, while also ending it on your terms and "punishing" the poor behavior.
And it indirectly sets the frame that you ARE different than all those other average guys, and that she's throwing away her chance of "landing" you.
How well it works depends how good a previous impression you did and your history.
For girls you're already sleeping with and/or see you as a great catch, it's dynamite.
For all the rest, still a risk worth taking most of the times.
OVERALL: ROCK ON!
If I remember your first posts in here... Props to you!
Really impressive progress, this was a tough one, and you did great.

Interesting.

This, you know already I think:

From an already "cattier" and demanding woman, you get that 10x before you sleep with her (and the same if you sleep with her on her terms of waiting and dining and wining and doing what she says).

Quick analysis:

Quote from Mehdi ELK on September 1, 2023, 4:36 pm
Girl : I don't plan, I only get ready.
Me: Didn't ask you to plan, only to provide the information.

You were defending with the "just" format here.
Such as, you accept the initial frame that "planning" was wrong, and that you were "just" (doing something "less bad" than she was accused you of)...

Similar dynamic to this video analysis where he sounds strong, but reacts to her frame.

Quote from Mehdi ELK on September 1, 2023, 4:36 pm
Girl : You know what? People will brought me gifts to go out with them, and you come tell me to check which days they'll broadcast it. If I did that, I would probably just go by myself.
Me: You take everything as a battle. Even something as small as this. If you want to go by yourself, you should probably do so. As for me, I'll go to sleep.
Girl *insults my masculinity*, and I hung up the phone.

This one shows you had power and influence over her.

She was already making "exceptions" for you.

BUT... Not yet enough power to be a total exception, so she was still trying to push you into all the other low-power men chasing her.

As for your reply, it would have been great during a relationship, in person, or after you had already been intimate at least.
At this stage, it's a risk that breaks the interaction more often than not.

It provoked a strong reaction, which is a good sign of your power over here and can be great in the right circumstances.
But in this case, it may mean a dead interaction.

Challenging her big time was a fair option though.

I'd have said something like this:

Girl : You know what? People will brought me gifts to go out with them, and you come tell me to check which days they'll broadcast it. If I did that, I would probably just go by myself.
You: way to go girl. Here's your chance to go to the cinema with a really cool guy, and instead of showing your best side, you act like a snobby bitch

Then, let her reply.

The more she gets angry, the shorter replies you give until you say you gotta go and wish her good night before hanging up (rather than hanging up abruptly which feels reactive and not as high power. But in your case hanging up was OK).

That's the strategic way of keeping the relationship alive, while also ending it on your terms and "punishing" the poor behavior.

And it indirectly sets the frame that you ARE different than all those other average guys, and that she's throwing away her chance of "landing" you.
How well it works depends how good a previous impression you did and your history.
For girls you're already sleeping with and/or see you as a great catch, it's dynamite.
For all the rest, still a risk worth taking most of the times.

OVERALL: ROCK ON!

If I remember your first posts in here... Props to you!

Really impressive progress, this was a tough one, and you did great.

John Freeman, Jack and 3 other users have reacted to this post.

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#3 · September 2, 2023, 12:44 am

OVERALL: ROCK ON!
If I remember your first posts in here... Props to you!
Really impressive progress, this was a tough one, and you did great.

I want to start to say, that my learning, my progress, my mindset and my skill got better thanks to this site. Not only the courses, ( they are a shortcut to progress faster) but also the articles you put effort into. It's thanks to you, Lucio, I got from a total clueless about social dynamics, to a more social strategist and be able to navigate these dynamics.

You were defending with the "just" format here.

That's true! I was aware of that. In fact, her frame confused me. When she said "I don't plan, I only get ready" I understand it in two different ways:

1- You are the man, you should lead and plan. Which makes me power-down and her the judge, or

2- A defensive response of : don't task me. Which makes her power-down and tries to rebalance her power.

Therefore, at whim, I decided to reframe 1 and balance 2 with subtle just format.

The more she gets angry, the shorter replies you give until you say you gotta go and wish her good night before hanging up (rather than hanging up abruptly which feels reactive and not as high power. But in your case hanging up was OK).
That's the strategic way of keeping the relationship alive, while also ending it on your terms and "punishing" the poor behavior.

Oh, that's good way to do it. The truth is, insults (Masculinity shaming) is a big turn off for me and I automatically turn cold and don't give it a damn effort. Anyways, it's a good experience why having a relationship with these type of girls is a no-no and a headache.

Lucio Buffalmano, John Freeman and 2 other users have reacted to this post.

#4 · September 2, 2023, 3:12 pm

Great example of collaborative shaming in a dating set up.

Potentially PU/SU worthy.

Lucio Buffalmano and John Freeman have reacted to this post.

#5 · September 2, 2023, 8:38 pm

Hello Mehdi,

I think it is important to differentiate as you did:

Analyze the power dynamics/situation and how you can improve it (as it might occur similarly in a different situation)
Think about what kind of woman you want in your life.

You guys already discussed point 1. So I'll comment quickly on point 2.

I don't know if that's your case. In my case there were many times when I wanted a woman who "was not for me". I thought she was beautiful and sexy but her mentality did not work with me at all. And I don't know how many times I insisted with these kind of girls before understanding what was going on. So I totally agree with you that this woman's character is not up to par. She has an entitlement mentality (probably is pursued by many men for her looks and youth). So it makes for a bad character. There are beautiful and sexy women who have better character as I'm sure you're aware of it.

If you're interested there is this channel. It is male chauvinist and I don't support this ideology. It also has a particular context: Miami and the women on the show are often young (20-25), sometimes older. I've been in Miami and there is a lot of emphasis on appearance and money. A lot. So it's a particular context. However, these interviews surface how some women think. I think particularly about some women in the western World where the level of entitlement is quite high.

Jack and Mehdi ELK have reacted to this post.

#6 · September 3, 2023, 1:57 am

Hello John, thank you for your reply.

Analyze the power dynamics/situation and how you can improve it (as it might occur similarly in a different situation)

For this particular situation (Trying to seduce her), it is purely 1.

Situations like these are rare, and it's a big opportunity to test my skill on the field seeing how far I can manage it. With an objective of course! In this case not a relationship.

In fact, difficult situations are the true test for the skill:

1. You have to keep tranquil mind in a stressful situation.

2. If you don't, you won't be fully aware of what's happening

3. Therefore, you won't act in a strategic way overall.

I still need to improve all of them in the field. I still need to learn and experience.

I thought she was beautiful and sexy but her mentality did not work with me at all.

I totally get it. In my particular situation, I only drag it further for the 3 points I cited above. Sometimes trying something new in a deadend and see (but I always keep aware when I should stop and move on).

2. Think about what kind of woman you want in your life.

It's important, I agree. She'll either drag you down or help you up. I do have a clear idea of what kind of woman I want in life. But for now, my only focus are developing my social skills, my network and my resources.

Cheers!

Jack and Power Duck have reacted to this post.