She wants to be friends
You overall did better this time.
She came to you, you denied the next day to recover power: great!
Jack's going for broke is also good.
Don't quite the game before the game is over.
Quick note on this, which was probably the issue that sank you the biggest:
Quote from Strider on May 4, 2023, 6:32 pmI then said dinner will be good Saturday. She replied not possible, she don't want to abuse her friend's kindness for keeping her kid for 2 days. That's fine for me.
This is where you gotta be strategic.
You already knew it was more no than yes and you had enough power and leverage now that you didn't need that big risk.
There was a recent post about being strategic around leadership, and that's all the more important in dating, and all the more important before you're "officially together".
General rule:
Don't try to lead when the odds of success are small.
You lead, she spurns it, you lose BIG.
Couple of those in succession, you may be already out (sometimes one is enough).
If you're not sure, you gotta make your move more covert and strategic.
Ie.:
What are you up to this Saturday
Bang: that simple.
That's how you test the waters without exposing yourself.
Depending on how she replies, you calibrate.
If she says she can't, you say:
Ehehe thank you for holding the spot for me, but I was just asking and actually had already planned something else. But let's keep in touch and see to make it happen soon enough
Now you spurn her, then lead, and give her another chance.
That's the strategic approach that turns "maybes" into lovers.
Here's a text that used to work well for me to check if one is in or out of the game:
So, I suppose we want to get together soon?
It usually gets either a positive response or an explanation.
I believe it does lower interest a bit, so best used when things are really on the fence and more out than in.
Quote from Jack on May 4, 2023, 8:34 pmYou can try one last time by going direct and saying : “ next time we see each other I want it to be just us two”
You don’t have much to lose at this point.
Yeps. If she texts back and she calls for kids reunion, I'll try this one
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on May 4, 2023, 8:46 pmYou overall did better this time.
She came to you, you denied the next day to recover power: great!
Jack's going for broke is also good.
Don't quite the game before the game is over.
Quick note on this, which was probably the issue that sank you the biggest:
Quote from Strider on May 4, 2023, 6:32 pmI then said dinner will be good Saturday. She replied not possible, she don't want to abuse her friend's kindness for keeping her kid for 2 days. That's fine for me.
This is where you gotta be strategic.
You already knew it was more no than yes and you had enough power and leverage now that you didn't need that big risk.
There was a recent post about being strategic around leadership, and that's all the more important in dating, and all the more important before you're "officially together".
General rule:
Don't try to lead when the odds of success are small.
You lead, she spurns it, you lose BIG.
Couple of those in succession, you may be already out (sometimes one is enough).If you're not sure, you gotta make your move more covert and strategic.
Ie.:What are you up to this Saturday
Bang: that simple.
That's how you test the waters without exposing yourself.
Depending on how she replies, you calibrate.
If she says she can't, you say:
Ehehe thank you for holding the spot for me, but I was just asking and actually had already planned something else. But let's keep in touch and see to make it happen soon enough
Now you spurn her, then lead, and give her another chance.
That's the strategic approach that turns "maybes" into lovers.
Thanks Lucio. Yes I'm learning to be more strategic. After 14 years being with someone has made me less aware of certain aspects which I'm trying to improve on myself.
I am really not affected in the sense that this time I was not going to be patient. She does not want, she's losing something. I'm trying to tell myself to prepare for things not going as I initially wish.
Thanks this is giving me food for thought and I'm definitely learning so much
Quote from Bel on May 4, 2023, 9:19 pmHere's a text that used to work well for me to check if one is in or out of the game:
So, I suppose we want to get together soon?
It usually gets either a positive response or an explanation.
I believe it does lower interest a bit, so best used when things are really on the fence and more out than in.
Thanks Bell. Your response is in the same vibe as Jack's.
I'm not sure if she'll understand the question. Being more direct is my preferred option.
Hi
At least I've got an answer when I've asked next time we see, it's both alone. She replied hours later.
She told me she values our friendship and hopes I don't get any other ideas. She is in a relationship and it will be a pleasure to see each other alone or with the kids but she does not want to give false hopes.
I absolutely hold no grudge, but if really she values friendship, she could have told me when we hanged out.
Time for me to move on. She's a cool person but I've got to be honest with myself.
She goes out clubbing with you and sleep in your bed.
She’s in a relationship, but never tells you.
She is not a cool person.
You could still try to fuck her just because she’s a bitch.
Or you can never contact her again.
But she’s really not a girlfriend material in my opinion.
Quote from Jack on May 25, 2023, 10:30 amShe goes out clubbing with you and sleep in your bed.
She’s in a relationship, but never tells you.
She is not a cool person.
You could still try to fuck her just because she’s a bitch.
Or you can never contact her again.
But she’s really not a girlfriend material in my opinion.
10/10 post.
It's SUPER common and "normal" to fall for this "familiarity bias" where we evaluate the people close -or that we feel close- as better than most.
But it doesn't make it correct -or, crucially, doesn't mate it good for you-.
Not a good person, had the exact same reaction as Jack.
Of course, it's possible she got into a relationship later on, or that she lied now about the relationship.
Which would be a tad better, but still not a good person in my book.
Hello, Strider, how are you doing?
Man, that sucks. To like someone and not to be liked back is a pain in the ass.
I'd like to offer a different perspective from Jack and Lucio here: yes, there are red flags as both pointed out. However, you also saw signs that she is a good person, and I saw many too. I think your feel about the situation is more important, because only you have the complete picture of your interactions and therefore can be a better judge of character.
I wouldn't go so far as to say she is a bitch. Yes, she went out with you, drank with you, but the point is: she never said she wanted you as a sexual partner. You never kissed, you never had sex, from the outset she told you that you were her friend.
Yes, you too cuddled, but then... so what? Perhaps she was into it that one moment, that one day, but didn't feel secure enough to have anything with you. Perhaps you weren't able to inspire the reassurance she needed, perhaps she was on the fence about what she wanted and didn't want to take any steps to avoid having to reject you if she changed her mind. There is also the possibility that she didn't want you to caress her at all, but once you started doing it, she wasn't assertive enough to tell you to stop. Lucio's advice for turning her on is golden: as long as there is not a single doubt that she's enjoying it.
What happened after that is more telling: you stopped seeing each other, then she wanted to meet you, but as friends, and with kids. I saw indecisiveness, but never nastiness coming from her.
A woman is not a bitch just because she didn't want to have sex or is on the fence about you or just wants to be friends. And I'd advise you the opposite, to stay clear of "fucking" someone just because you think they're a "bitch". It's a dangerous mindset, because it leads to a skewed view of that is harmful both for women and for you and your progress as a better man, boyfriend, husband, father, person. Fuck people that want to fuck. This is especially important in this case because, if there is one think clear in this whole interaction from the moment you met, ist that she was not looking for casual sex, so there is no reason to push for that.
Perhaps it's painful now because you idealized her, and it's ok if you want to cut contact if you need to spare yourself the suffering. Still, once the pain period passes, you'll realize there are many benefits in having friendships with women, either from a humanist or from a purely social exchange point of view.
I posted my situation and I'm really glad to hear your opinions : Lucio, Jack, Transitioned, Bel and Kavalier!
Yeps of course I'm the one who knows better. I know I made some mistakes and I definitely grow and learn from them while I subscribed to SU. Things are sometimes more complex to implement.
I know I made some "mistakes". But I also know that I'm in the middle of a divorce and my kids are my priority. I work a lot and I do miss the bonding during a relationship.
@Jack : no I won't try fucking her because she is giving me too much resistance and if I want a bitch, rather fuck an easy one lol.
And yes, I did notice some red flags. She keeps changing her profile photo like every 2-3 weeks, and recently started putting some sexier photos. Of course, she has an army of boys and girls liking her, and commenting. I never did, because I'm not into commenting /liking these kind of photos. I feel like a puppet if I do so.
Since my previous posts, I also stopped contacting her, I was ready to move on. I was just waiting to ask her, the next time we meet it's only both of us. I didn't want to contact first because for me it's giving too much power to her, while she is not investing much.
Thing is that, she did initiate contact with me twice. She once texted me, had some rapid good vibes and had to go. And the next time she called me because she wanted our kids to play together. Thing is I was on bluetooth driving my car, with my little daughter checking youtube. So my daughter answered and I could not have a proper "the next time it's only you and me". And my kids and I were invited elsewhere, so it was not possible to meet and I did not want too with the kids.
I checked her vibe by text yesterday. We did "cracked a few jokes" and again she tells me to plan something with the kids together. So I told we should be going out alone next time and I've got the answer I shared to you.
Well when I say she is a cool person, she is in front of me. But I do realize that she is not a "good" one. We are only talking about things going on for 2 weeks. She can't tell me she is my "friend" but did not even bother telling me she found someone.
She knew I was interested. That's not honest from her, she is a grown up woman attracting a hell lot of attention. Just that she is in a delicate situation where she has her kid everytime. I sensed her frustration about it when we talked sometimes . And this was a "little red flag" for me too.
@Kavalier thanks for sharing your view. I'm good thank you. Indeed what you say I did think about it, like why would she let me to that extent without saying anything. She didn't seem uncomfortable and didn't tell me to stop even after, except for the kissing thing.
My plan
I'll delete her from my Facebook friends. I haven't replied yet. I 'll tell her I respect her feelings. But I' ve got to be honest with her and with myself. I'll move on and we are OK. Then delete her number.
I'm pretty sure she will be OK with that. Like I said she has an army of admirers online, but not physically. I'm not over thinking but I just feel she was starting to feel annoyed when she had her kid for long and when her friend could not help with the babysitting. So I was the comforter, to join in cause I'm doing loads of interesting activities with my kids.