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Speak with imperative form
At work there is this guy who comes across quite dominant. To be honest, I always felt a little impressed (or even intimidated) by him. I rarely spoke to him, just the occasional hello or small talk at the printer.
Since a couple of weeks we've become palls. We talk almost every working day. I've been studying power moves at the same time. So he really has been a case study for me.
I wondered what made him dominant, apart from his body langue. I've discovered that the single most important thing that makes him appear dominant is him talking in the imperative form.
He does that quite a lot. He not asks but orders you to come "Razor, come here". Or when he gets a phone call during our convo he says "Ok wait, be quiet". When a third person is joining us but he wants to discuss something just between the two of us he tells the person "Go get some coffee or something".
You may find his behaviour disrespectful but I don't experience it that way. Obviously since I know power moves I respond with "OK boss" in a sarcastic tone or something like that.
Or when I'm telling him a story he interrupts and says "get to the point". I respond by pausing for a very brief moment, raise an eyebrow, and continue my story anyway.
He also does that "Thank you" thing. When he asks someone to help him out, he closes by saying "thank you for your effort".
Thought it was quite a discovery.
This is a very good post and observation, Razor, thank you for sharing man!
One thing though:
Quote from Razor on November 14, 2020, 11:55 amObviously since I know power moves I respond with "OK boss" in a sarcastic tone or something like that.
Watch out on not falling for complacency.
From a frame control point of view, as well as general power dynamics, can anyone see the potential issue in this reply?
Reminds me of "Indirect Social Punishment". The sarcasm can come across as passive-aggressive, which isn't viewed as high-quality since high-quality men build people up, they don't put people down.
So, as a possible alternative, you can aim to neutralize those (typical) expressions of dominance. By doing so, you set the frame to two dominant men interacting instead of one the dominant leader and the other the submissive order-taker:
Him: "Razor, come here."
You: "Give me a minute."
*You're both having a conversation.
Him: (Gets a phone call) "Ok wait, be quiet."
You: "Go ahead."
On another note, it reminds me of one of Lucio's YouTube videos where Judge Judy gestured for the defendant to speak (she didn't even say a word) and the defendant said "okay" right before following her lead by speaking. It was very powerful since she gave the order to speak so dominantly. What really made Judge Judy appear to be the dominant party though, was how the defendant relinquished his own power by saying "okay".
If you're given an order and you respond with "OK" right before doing what they say, it signals to everyone that you're following their lead and that you accept their leadership/power over you. I've seen cases where you can say "OK" to be respectful but take your time or do something else first so you appear to follow their lead without coming across as a submissive order-taker.
That's more from the general power dynamics POV, anyone have any frame control notes here?
Thanks @aliscarlett. Your advice is very useful. Will use the "go ahead" next time.
@lucio I wonder what possible issues you've got in mind.
From a power dynamics perspective, he is acting dominant and above you in terms of status.
And you are not only not doing anything about it, but with that joke you actually confirm the power dynamics of him being above you, and you being beneath him.
If you make the joke and even execute the task, that would be the kiss of death.
From a frames point of view, you are using a form of the old PUA technique "agree and amplify", amplifying it into a joke.
But you remain within his frame of him tasking you.
You confirm his frame, and follow him into it.
"OK boss" might be a bit better than just saying "OK", as it shows at least some awareness of the power dynamics.
But not that much better.
You're right Lucio. Saying "boss" is sort of confirming his frame. I've still got much to learn. But like you said, it shows my awareness of his obvious power plays.
Out-dominate him would be the end game, to be honest. Not sure if I'd gain anything from it... I may risk him resenting me. He's quite useful for office politics as well.
He might be the most dominant co-worker on our office floor. It's actually fun to "use" him as a case study on power plays (in the positive sense).
Yes, I have a few key takeaways here. It seems that:
- The power dynamics are not set in stone, they only begin to solidify as you begin to confirm them
If from a power dynamics perspective someone is acting dominant and above you in terms of status, the power dynamics are still open to being changed and shifted if you can deal with their behavior socially powerfully. It's only as you confirm the power dynamics that they begin to settle in (and, quite possibly, become harder to change).
- The joke: not socially powerful and, gladly, not the worst outcome
It seems that the problem with the joke isn't really the joke itself, but how the joke impacts the power dynamics. Making the joke sarcastically is almost a way of saying that you have no power to refuse his orders, so a sarcastic comment is the best you can do as a response.
At the same time, a trait of the high-quality man is knowing power dynamics. So, using that joke as a response does signal that you've developed that high-quality trait some since you were aware of the power dynamics enough to know to respond. With this move, you've shown that you're on your way to becoming a more high-quality man, so I can think of worse outcomes :)
- "If you make the joke and even execute the task, that would be the kiss of death."
That would confirm the power dynamics which would further solidify his power and authority over you (on top of the issues with the joke above). It may be harder to change this dynamic later down the line.
What I didn't consider, is how this affects his status. If, "He is acting dominant and above you in terms of status," then he's acting high-power, which can be faked to appear powerful. But, by handling his orders in a way that's viewed as submissive, even without having any actual status over you, people may actually begin to believe that he is. This is interesting to me because I knew that submissive handling of dominant behavior could elevate the leader's authority, but this is the first that I'm wondering if it could directly elevate the leader's "status".
For example, if you had handled his orders dominantly, his dominant behavior may have still caused him to appear as having authority (albeit that authority would've taken a hit if you refused to follow his orders). But, his status may not have moved since status can usually only be lowered by submissive behavior and raised to a peak with dominant behavior before you need actual status to raise it further (like fame). But, with the submissive behavior of others in response to your dominant behavior, you may be able to raise your status beyond that peak without needing actual status like fame.
- "Agree and amplify": yes
Forgot about this one. I'm more familiar with the "agree and redirect". So, it's only after Lucio pointed it out that I realized this is a form of the agree and amplify since you did agree to the task and elevate it into a joke. I also forgot that the "agree and amplify technique" doesn't only apply when agreeing to something someone says, but when agreeing to a task someone gives you.
This goes to show that these frame control techniques apply to more than the frames within sentences said by the other person in the interaction. They also apply to the frames set by the power dynamics of the situation themselves.
Quote from Ali Scarlett on November 14, 2020, 11:30 pmYes, I have a few key takeaways here. It seems that:
- The power dynamics are not set in stone, they only begin to solidify as you begin to confirm them
If from a power dynamics perspective someone is acting dominant and above you in terms of status, the power dynamics are still open to being changed and shifted if you can deal with their behavior socially powerfully. It's only as you confirm the power dynamics that they begin to settle in (and, quite possibly, become harder to change).
Absolutely.
It's a negotiation of sorts.
It's "sticky" in the sense that past events are more likely to be confirmed in the present and trends tend to stick as expectations and behavioral habits (both for power and submissive behavior) sets in -which is why it's harder sometimes to change past dynamics-, but it's also an ongoing negotiation, and the past can be changed.
Keeping it simple the way to go
About status, frames, authority, etc., I might have unwittingly overcomplicated it for you guys in my first post when I separated power dynamics and frame control.
It's not like the two are separated in real life.
And the other elements also move together.
High status is also almost always high authority, and tends to control the frame, assign tasks, speak directly (or with imperatives). While low status is more often submissive, lower authority, executing tasks, relinquishing control of frames.
They go together, and tend to move in locksteps.
When one is lost, rather than trying to find the answer going into the details, it's sometimes better to go higher instead, and simplify the analysis with "power up / power down".
Was X behavior power up, or power down?
And that can provide much clarity.
Quote from Razor on November 14, 2020, 10:12 pmOut-dominate him would be the end game, to be honest. Not sure if I'd gain anything from it... I may risk him resenting me. He's quite useful for office politics as well.
He might be the most dominant co-worker on our office floor. It's actually fun to "use" him as a case study on power plays (in the positive sense).
Absolutely.
A strategy of always having to dominate anyone is nonsense, and make you a rather nasty person to deal with.
Even with assholes, sometimes you're not in a position to out-dominate them, and a grander social strategy will seek other solutions.
In this case, rather than out-dominating, I'd see to "sterilize" his tasks and one-ups (there are examples around the website or PU, can't exactly remember where)
Exactly. Neutralising is what I need to do in this case. Hopefully I'll find some more examples on how to do that. In the meantime "go ahead" is a good one.
