Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
Bel's thoughts
I may even reply these for fun.
Something like:
LOL, very professional guys.
(Probably not coming to work there).
For example, I was told at a local gym here that I oculd cancel a membership I had done (I'd have never done a membership without the possibility of canceling because I knew I'd probably would have needed so soon).
When I needed to cancel, they told me to write an email -which I already thought was bad service-.
On email, they said they "don't have to" and won't do it.
So my reply before I'll block the card and leave a public review:
Not saying it's the best way to go.
It's not.
Of course the most effective approach is to ignore and do your thing.
However, if you want to get it out of the system, it may also be an option.
It’s a great suggestion Lucio!
I think I’ll experiment with this in specific cases.
My doorman tries to go at it again
Doorman: Hi! I have a surprise.
Me: I’ll take it.
Doorman: Negative surprise.
Me: For me all surprises are positive.
Doorman: (laughs nervously. I interpreted it as a sign of him having “lost” - then he tried to recover:) If you’re happy…
Me: You need to interpret things positively. It’s bad to have fear at life.
* click on blockquote to expand
Then he stayed silent and handed me the… monthly condominium bill.
It appears he’s still trying to power move on me.
I think one of the main benefits can be for mental self-development.
For example, if one still feels a bit timid about being assertive or showing displeasure, then some stronger stances or replies can help.
Edit: was referring to the previous post
Removing warmth after my doorman power moved again
I found myself not responding to the doorman's "hi's" anymore.
I deliberately removed all warmth to subcommunicate his recent power moves were not appreciated.
I suppose it's the reverse of Lucio's suggestion to start saluting again people who started respecting me.
Encouraging good behavior by power movers
One relative of mine sent me birthday wishes via text.
He was a very bad manipulator who used to disrespect me constantly.
I found myself answering him:
Him: Happy birthday [emoji of glasses toasting]
Me: Thank you so much X!
Initially I thought my response was aimed at subcommunicating I did not hold a grudge (which no doubt angers former manipulators more than not responding).
But now I'm thinking it may also be a way to encourage good behavior.
The other side of "checking power moves" may be "respond warmly to good behavior".
In my mind, it's not so far fetched anymore to resume having a relationship with some former ass*****
I find myself entertaining the thought I could start responding and interacting again with some former high-level ass*****, if anything to learn more about how to interact with these bad people.
I suppose this is a testament to my getting better.
In groups, do we need to "fake being friends" with high status "bad people"?
I witnessed this in my former law firm by some power-aware new hires.
One of them raised ranks quickly by simply associating with the "bad people" founders of the firm.
Bella told me she also started unconsciously doing something similar with the people she knows.
It leverages "The Gervais' Principle"'s rule of exploiting the association with high status people to raise ranks.
Since in groups, status is illegible unless one associates with the leader or with the bottom guy.
Some random notes:
- I don't think status is "illegible". It's "fuzzy", which is not exactly the same. How fuzzy or not also depends on groups and environments
- Status boost by association is a proven and tested approach to personal advancement
- For the doorman, I'd also consider a direct approach. For example: "Hey Mr. X, I know you mean it well and in joking. But I don't like this thing of introducing this or that letter as "bad news". Then feel free to add your own reason why not. I'd personally go the philosopher one that it's disempowering and the bad news are much different, but up to you how to go from there
Thank you, Lucio.
I will wait to see if he does it again, and if he does, I'll go with the direct approach.
First of all, thank you Lucio for the birthday wishes from Mats' journal.
I have some reflections I made these days.
Covertly aggressive, one-upping people use social games (cards, board, soccer, etc.) as occasions to abuse and play power moves covertly
Before-TPM, I remember sometimes I would go to Bella's parents house in the countryside and they (her dad, her mom and Bella) would gather in the common garden, on a table, to play card games in the evening.
Initially I would take part in these games.
As the years went by, though, I stopped playing.
I remember the last times I went there with Bella, I used to stay in their home, alone, while them three would play card games in the garden during the evening.
When you don't understand power dynamics, being abused creates wrong links and wrong mental associations, and mostly self-blaming ones.
Initially, I thought I simply didn't like to play cards with people.
But the discomfort didn't end. I once went there (to their house) for three days, never played cards, and still felt really bad.
I thought I didn't like the house, or being around people in general.
In the end I simply told Bella I didn't want to go there anymore, and I never went again.
Now I realize that Bella's father, in particular, used to humiliate me constantly while playing these games in the guise of being "excited while playing" or being a "sore loser".
I remember he would basically criticize me constantly during the game, bit like De Niro in "Meet the parents", screaming loudly that I was a fool, didn't know how to play, and he would even "show me" how to play "correctly".
Of course this was not all that he did. He did much more those days. The dynamic, I am now reflecting, was very very similar to De Niro in "Meet the parents". If anything, it was nastier.
Before-TPM, I did not know what was going on. Nor how to react to address this stuff.
They still got what they deserved
In the end, the more I didn't react and didn't see what was going on, the more the abuse escalated.
It escalated very severely.
So much, that I could not "not see it" anymore.
When I opened my eyes (I remember the very day I realized Bella's father didn't like me, after he had humiliated me in front of everyone), I was really really angry.
My solution was to explain away these people's behaviors as "severely disturbed".
I even played a part in Bella's eventual distancing from her parents.
I showed her what they had done, in detail, and she ultimately reflected on what they had done not only to me, but to her, and she chose to get distance.
But I paid a big price: so far, I had rationalized my not wanting to be near these abusers as me "not liking to play cards", and worse: "liking to be alone" and "being an introvert"
Recently, Bella and I went to her parents' country house again, for the first time in years.
But we went, for the first time, alone.
Her parents were not there. We deliberately chose to not go there with them anymore.
So we were just the two of us.
And when, in the evening, we got down to the common garden, I had this thought flashing through my mind:
Me: This garden and table is very nice. It'd be a very pleasant evening to stay here with Bella and friends and maybe chat or play some card games.
Then it hit me:
I DO like to play cards.
I do like to play cards with: good people, and good friends.
And, I'm NOT an introvert; and, I DO like being around people and friends.
But I didn't (and still don't) like being around asshole abusers.
And I couldn't accept THESE people were the abusers.
So I rationalized that I was the issue.
That I was a loner, not wanting to have friends.
Now I see the full truth.
Wow, cool story, Bel, thank you for sharing.
Would be curious to hear more about those one-upping, games, and general nastiness.
And would also like to see you meet them again, now with more awareness and skills, and "even things out".
Also, I remember when you said you had a lot of assholes around you in your life.
And I thought it probably was more like you were suddenly becoming aware, rather than having had more.
But it's certainly possible you did have "more than the average", so to speak.
And, finally "Meet The Parents" is such a fantastic movie for power dynamics.
It's supposedly to be all covert and subtle, but because it's a Hollywood movie, it overdoes it anyway -and that's also its advantage because then it becomes visible enough even for those who aren't yet advanced-.
Thanks for sharing that Bel, some of the things you said resonated strongly with me.
I'm starting to think that those things might have happened to me as well.
Particularly these two:
Quote from Bel on June 26, 2023, 8:06 pm......When you don't understand power dynamics, being abused creates wrong links and wrong mental associations, and mostly self-blaming ones.
.......
But I paid a big price: so far, I had rationalized my not wanting to be near these abusers as me "not liking to play cards", and worse: "liking to be alone" and "being an introvert"
......
I wonder why some people rationalize after negative social situations that they like to be alone, I suppose it's a survival mechanism to stay away from potential abusers/toxic people. I'm no expert in the matter though :)
Cheers.
