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Do serious girls exist?

#1 · February 28, 2020, 5:17 am

Lucio there are many men who say that serious women don't exist and that women are all the same, cheating because of hypergamy and never stay with just one man for love. All these people say to speak from experience. You also have knowledge and experience with random hookups, what do you say, do good girls exist

#2 · February 28, 2020, 4:17 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2020, 4:17 pm
Short answer: yes.
Slightly longer answer: define "serious". Then, most likely, no matter which traits you select, you will still find some girls who are high in those traits. However, first, focus on becoming a man who makes a girl want to live up to those good qualities.
You know what I'd ask you first: what do you mean by "serious"?
Usually, men define a serious woman with a mix of these traits:
Does not engage in (much) casual sex
Is (mostly) faithful when in a relationship (or at least seeks to be and bases part of her own self-esteem on being faithful)
Does not party or drink (too much)
And, sometimes, men also add this one to the mix:
Has a low sexual appetite
This last one is a less healthy indicator, though.
Albeit a lower sexual appetite correlates somehow with casual sex and faithfulness, the correlation is not 1:1. There are plenty of women who are all of the above three, but who still have a high sexual drive and/or are highly orgasmic.
If you are defining "serious" as a girl with some, all, or a mix of the above 3 qualities -or even the fourth one-, yes, there are many of them.
Faithfulness Is Shades of Grey, Not Binary
Here, again, a definition would help.
What does "faithful" mean?
Is faithfulness staying without any new man for her entire life in case her man dies?
Is faithfulness staying with a man who turns out to be an idiot just because she judged him wrong?
Is faithfulness helping and supporting a man who's an alcoholic and is doing nothing to get himself sober?
All of the above traits are more like spectrum traits rather than binary ones.
As a kid, I used to be a fan of cyclist called "Marco Pantani", a true legend of the bike world.
Like many cyclists of his generation, he took some performance-enhancing drugs. He was caught, and after a brief comeback, he fell into drug addiction, and alcoholism.
Pantani and his girlfriend broke up.
And I used to think that "she left him right when he needed her the most".
That might be.
But that might also be a terribly selfish way of looking at it.
What if the girl at least tried to help him out -later I found out she did-. What if he never showed any signs of wanting to improve -later I found out he was a hopeless case-? What if he at times turned abusive and aggressive -this one, he never was-? What if she was incredibly hurt, but it was either one goes down, or both go down -it was such a case-?
Today, I think there is some beauty and poetry in never-ending faithfulness.
But on the other hand, there is also stupidity and self-harm in never-ending faithfulness.
Most of all, I think it's the hallmark of an entitled and childish attitude to expect never-ending faithfulness. True maturity comes when you take responsibility for supporting others, and not expecting others to support you.
Men Who Deny The Spectrum (AKA "All Women Are Bitches")
I would not take people who share generalizations about "all women being the same" too seriously.
Especially when it comes to realms where it's been proven that women differ -just as men, after all-.
These men:
They don't have much experience 1: It doesn't take too long to meet women who present any, or even all, of the above traits. If one hasn't met them, he probably hasn't met many women.
They don't have much experience 1: most people extrapolate on just a couple of instances. Sometimes just one hard-hitting case, and they generalize to the whole population. Many of these guys have probably slept or heard of 2-3 of women with a boyfriend cheating, or their GF cheated on them, and now they say they have the "proof" women are (all) cheaters.
They don't have much knowledge of evolutionary psychology: while cheating is more damaging to men, cheating is also less genetically advantageous for women (ie.: men "gain more" by cheating). So saying "all women are bitches" without extending the same generalization to men, is either ignorant, or the clear sign of a personal bias
They have little knowledge of basic scientific principles: judging the entire population based on the positive cases only, and not in relation to the negative cases, is an obvious selection bias. Such as: even if you sleep with 1.000 women in a committed relationship, that tells you nothing about women's general faithfulness unless you include the ones that did not cheat -or the ones that did not cheat with you, which is basically almost every single woman in a committed relationship-
I touched a bit on these topics on the articles on the Red Pill.
They were long enough though so I didn't so deep into the details of this topic.
Focus on Making Girls Want to Be Faithful
I'll be honest: when I read that question my first thought was: "does he have the right mindset"?
It's been my experience that many guys who ask about serious girls do it from a position of both naiveness, and entitlement.
As if you got 100% "serious" and 100% "not serious". And as if they were owed the former. Than, if a girl, like most humans, turns out to be less than that 100% almost non-existent ideal, they predictably lash out saying that she was a bitch.
Drop the ideal, embrace the more complex reality of shades.
And set your priorities straight: your first priority should be to be a guy who makes a girl want to be faithful. Then, it's learning to select the right woman.
Now lemme be direct again: until then, you aren't holding your end of the bargain. And until you hold your end of the bargain, you don't have the right to complain.

Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer: define "serious". Then, most likely, no matter which traits you select, you will still find some girls who are high in those traits. However, first, focus on becoming a man who makes a girl want to live up to those good qualities.

You know what I'd ask you first: what do you mean by "serious"?

Usually, men define a serious woman with a mix of these traits:

Does not engage in (much) casual sex
Is (mostly) faithful when in a relationship (or at least seeks to be and bases part of her own self-esteem on being faithful)
Does not party or drink (too much)

And, sometimes, men also add this one to the mix:

Has a low sexual appetite

This last one is a less healthy indicator, though.
Albeit a lower sexual appetite correlates somehow with casual sex and faithfulness, the correlation is not 1:1. There are plenty of women who are all of the above three, but who still have a high sexual drive and/or are highly orgasmic.

If you are defining "serious" as a girl with some, all, or a mix of the above 3 qualities -or even the fourth one-, yes, there are many of them.

Faithfulness Is Shades of Grey, Not Binary

Here, again, a definition would help.

What does "faithful" mean?

Is faithfulness staying without any new man for her entire life in case her man dies?
Is faithfulness staying with a man who turns out to be an idiot just because she judged him wrong?
Is faithfulness helping and supporting a man who's an alcoholic and is doing nothing to get himself sober?

All of the above traits are more like spectrum traits rather than binary ones.

As a kid, I used to be a fan of cyclist called "Marco Pantani", a true legend of the bike world.
Like many cyclists of his generation, he took some performance-enhancing drugs. He was caught, and after a brief comeback, he fell into drug addiction, and alcoholism.

Pantani and his girlfriend broke up.
And I used to think that "she left him right when he needed her the most".

That might be.
But that might also be a terribly selfish way of looking at it.
What if the girl at least tried to help him out -later I found out she did-. What if he never showed any signs of wanting to improve -later I found out he was a hopeless case-? What if he at times turned abusive and aggressive -this one, he never was-? What if she was incredibly hurt, but it was either one goes down, or both go down -it was such a case-?

Today, I think there is some beauty and poetry in never-ending faithfulness.
But on the other hand, there is also stupidity and self-harm in never-ending faithfulness.
Most of all, I think it's the hallmark of an entitled and childish attitude to expect never-ending faithfulness. True maturity comes when you take responsibility for supporting others, and not expecting others to support you.

Men Who Deny The Spectrum (AKA "All Women Are Bitches")

I would not take people who share generalizations about "all women being the same" too seriously.
Especially when it comes to realms where it's been proven that women differ -just as men, after all-.

These men:

They don't have much experience 1: It doesn't take too long to meet women who present any, or even all, of the above traits. If one hasn't met them, he probably hasn't met many women.
They don't have much experience 1: most people extrapolate on just a couple of instances. Sometimes just one hard-hitting case, and they generalize to the whole population. Many of these guys have probably slept or heard of 2-3 of women with a boyfriend cheating, or their GF cheated on them, and now they say they have the "proof" women are (all) cheaters.
They don't have much knowledge of evolutionary psychology: while cheating is more damaging to men, cheating is also less genetically advantageous for women (ie.: men "gain more" by cheating). So saying "all women are bitches" without extending the same generalization to men, is either ignorant, or the clear sign of a personal bias
They have little knowledge of basic scientific principles: judging the entire population based on the positive cases only, and not in relation to the negative cases, is an obvious selection bias. Such as: even if you sleep with 1.000 women in a committed relationship, that tells you nothing about women's general faithfulness unless you include the ones that did not cheat -or the ones that did not cheat with you, which is basically almost every single woman in a committed relationship-

I touched a bit on these topics on the articles on the Red Pill.
They were long enough though so I didn't so deep into the details of this topic.

Focus on Making Girls Want to Be Faithful

I'll be honest: when I read that question my first thought was: "does he have the right mindset"?

It's been my experience that many guys who ask about serious girls do it from a position of both naiveness, and entitlement.
As if you got 100% "serious" and 100% "not serious". And as if they were owed the former. Than, if a girl, like most humans, turns out to be less than that 100% almost non-existent ideal, they predictably lash out saying that she was a bitch.

Drop the ideal, embrace the more complex reality of shades.

And set your priorities straight: your first priority should be to be a guy who makes a girl want to be faithful. Then, it's learning to select the right woman.

Now lemme be direct again: until then, you aren't holding your end of the bargain. And until you hold your end of the bargain, you don't have the right to complain.

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#3 · June 6, 2020, 2:02 am

Interesting reading, thanks!

I think serious girls exist

#4 · October 14, 2020, 10:01 am

Off topic but related

I posted this on girls chase as I usually enjoy the content there yet as Lucio I am not a big fan of generalizations

"About thinking All women are silly and cute":

"this may be useful as a tactical assumption for purposes of maximixing seduction results (like assuming attraction), yet as anything is a big generalization, even if most women are silly and cute, at least some of them may be dangerous and powerful and you should be looking to recognize those (and some may be serious and capable leaders), and others may even be smart and ugly or whatever..."

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#5 · October 14, 2020, 10:38 am

Quote from Stef on October 14, 2020, 10:01 am
"this may be useful as a tactical assumption for purposes of maximixing seduction results (like assuming attraction), yet as anything is a big generalization, even if most women are silly and cute, at least some of them may be dangerous and powerful and you should be looking to recognize those (and some may be serious and capable leaders), and others may even be smart and ugly or whatever..."

Great, great comment, Stef.

As a matter of fact, it might deserve its own thread, since it's just a widespread mantra in the PUA world, but I've always felt it was mostly a crutch to make men feel more confident.

I wrote about in some articles:

It works like this:

I’m afraid of approaching a girl, but I tell myself she’s just cute and funny maybe it’s easier.
It will hurt if I get rejected, but if I tell myself girls are silly then it’s better
I feel inferior so I tell myself that girls are below me to make me feel better

But hey, if “girls are silly and cute” can help you for a while, that’s all good.

But I don’t think it really helps you much.
It’s because it seeks to address the consequences of the issues instead of fixing the root causes.

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#6 · October 15, 2020, 1:54 am

or you may target girls that really are silly and cute, cause those also exist.

Bad side: you would be a very limited seducer, and will lost all the benefits that may be associated with having relationships with girls that are not silly and cute.

Also, if you can only seduce silly girls, what does that imply about you?

what if you preffer ugly girls?... and so on...

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#7 · October 15, 2020, 8:29 am

Exactly.
Not to mention high-powered, go-getter women.

Or high socialites who know how to move to come across as high-quality.

Take Melania Trump, for example.
She hasn't really "worked" or done anything since she married Trump.
But she certainly was "silly and cute".

Guys who defend that concept say that women become "silly and cute" once they submit to the man / fall in love / recognize him as the leader.
And there is some truth in there, there happens a major shift in women's behavior, and previously higher power women can mellow.
But that's very different than "silly and cute".
Plus, it's also a phase that does not necessarily last forever. Make children, for example, and women's priorities shift. Or divorce and start divorce papers for alimony and custody.... Then go see if "women are silly and cute" :).

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#8 · March 22, 2021, 7:35 am

From my personal experience, 90% of my (ex) girlfriends have collaborative mindset. Whether or not being serious depends on whether or not I want to be serious about the relationship.

Of course, manipulators do exist.

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#9 · March 22, 2021, 7:44 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2020, 4:17 pm

What does "faithful" mean?
Is faithfulness staying without any new man for her entire life in case her man dies?
Is faithfulness staying with a man who turns out to be an idiot just because she judged him wrong?
Is faithfulness helping and supporting a man who's an alcoholic and is doing nothing to get himself sober?
All of the above traits are more like spectrum traits rather than binary ones.

In my humble opinion, you might be overly complicating the meaning of "faithful". To me, faithful simply mean that telling the truth. "Cheating" simply means lying. Telling the partial truth is also a form of lying.

For example, if we all agree that we don't lie to each other, then, if she is meeting someone else one-on-one tonight in a non-working setting, without telling me the whole truth, then she is cheating.

Of course, if she tells me the truth, then whether or not should I tolerate this behavior is another complicated, grey-area question which depends on our personal values.

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#10 · March 22, 2021, 5:24 pm

You make a great point, selffoe.

In my answer, I was seeking to address the root causes of why many men ask if "serious girls exist".

And the root cause is that some men expect faithfulness no matter what.

And in my opinion, that is a bad approach since it shifts the focus on demanding only, without considering what you can do -and should also do-.

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