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Feedbacks & clarifications

And in the forum the assumption was that "it's a cool thing to do for active forum users". But that was obviously a nonsense mistake on my side, forgetting the silent majority that doesn't post.

The forum does not feel public.
Sometimes I thought I am talking in a WhatsApp group.
The silent majority doesn't feel to exist.

The reading majority does seem quite huge though, at least from what I see on the number of views.

The difference of course is that PU updates are automatically available to anyone.
The ebooks need action on my side.

Might have to find a way to formally describe it and write it somewhere.
More something for the business side of things though.

I resonate with your earlier post that Shan is one data point.
So it may not be a big deal.
Then, it shocked me that some people may have reached out to her privately.
So it seems that this may be more important than I have thought.

I was referring to private reach-outs.
If private texts contain anything I -or anyone else- might learn from, including criticism, then might as well post publicly and help people improve.

I think this is challenging for several reasons:

  • They are silent for most of the time.
  • Writing for the first time especially on a controversial topic in public may feel like a big thing.
  • They may feel the need to deal with the after-splash after giving the feedback.

Maybe the guest login may be useful after all on this forum.
Although I do enjoy the lack of spam on this forum without the guest login.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on August 29, 2021, 7:08 am

I think this is challenging for several reasons:

  • They are silent for most of the time.
  • Writing for the first time especially on a controversial topic in public may feel like a big thing.
  • They may feel the need to deal with the after-splash after giving the feedback.

Maybe the guest login may be useful after all on this forum.
Although I do enjoy the lack of spam on this forum without the guest login.

Yeah, great points.

OFF-TOPIC: POWER DYNAMICS OF PRIVATE SUPPORT

It's still a low power, ineffective, and potentially low-quality strategy though.

And I'm talking about the general dynamics as they apply to life.

For example, in business or in real-life social groups.

From a power perspective, you're siding with the, permission to be frank now, butt-hurt party who's complaining for having been left out.

So you self-associate and form cliques with those who're on the way out, rather than on those who stay and keep shaping the environment.
The former don't have much to give. The latter do.

If the "support" extends to badmouthing the boss (or supposed asshole), then it can be very disempowering for the support-giver.
At work, it's like the guy who goes to the person who's been fired and says "you're right, the boss is an idiot".

Then, if he's an idiot, why are you still there.
It self-frames you as a victim without option, who prefers to complain rather than to change things.

And if you're on the receiving end, it's not any better.
You don't want to be the receiver of those pats in the back because it's a disempowering pity party.
And at a mental level it's the same dynamics we discussed in "white virtue-signaling".

Anyway, I wanted to clarify the dynamics, but also don't want to give much more space to it because it thread expands on negativity.

So new feedback on the exchange are most welcome, discussions on the power dynamics are always welcome of course (but on a new thread), and for the rest, I'd personally prefer to start putting this behind.

OFF-TOPIC

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I think this is challenging for several reasons:

  1. They are silent for most of the time.
  2. Writing for the first time especially on a controversial topic in public may feel like a big thing.
  3. They may feel the need to deal with the after-splash after giving the feedback.

Maybe the guest login may be useful after all on this forum.

Although I do enjoy the lack of spam on this forum without the guest login

My thoughts on this are as follows.

The lack of spam is what makes this forum more efficient and effective and something that moves the forum towards mutual learning.

However it is also important to hear the thoughts of guests who have a say but might feel like it's a big thing or maybe even afraid of after effects of sharing their thoughts (of course if they are rude there will be after effects, However it's also very human to fear)

  • So we can have a seperate section where guests can share their thoughts without requirement to pay for the weekly/monthly/annual forum written access plan.

 

And to give the guests a sense of security we can do this.

  • When guests leave reviews their Username and/or name will not be shown.

However we must also ensure that the thoughts of each guest are unique and prevent one guest from posing as multiple guests to backup his own thoughts to benefit themselves and create a false sense of majority.

  • Hence the messages of each guest is shown with the guest having a unique ID number [We must ensure to give a sense of security to the guests that this unique ID can't be tracked to their username by anyone including the owner of The Powermoves(Lucio) ]

OFF-TOPIC: POWER DYNAMICS OF PRIVATE SUPPORT

It's still a low power, ineffective, and potentially low-quality strategy though.

And I'm talking about the general dynamics as they apply to life.

For example, in business or in real-life social groups.

From a power perspective, you're siding with the, permission to be frank now, butt-hurt party who's complaining for having been left out.

So you self-associate and form cliques with those who're on the way out, rather than on those who stay and keep shaping the environment.
The former don't have much to give. The latter do.

If the "support" extends to badmouthing the boss (or supposed asshole), then it can be very disempowering for the support-giver.
At work, it's like the guy who goes to the person who's been fired and says "you're right, the boss is an idiot".

Then, if he's an idiot, why are you still there.
It self-frames you as a victim without option, who prefers to complain rather than to change things.

And if you're on the receiving end, it's not any better.
You don't want to be the receiver of those pats in the back because it's a disempowering pity party.
And at a mental level it's the same dynamics we discussed in "white virtue-signaling".

Anyway, I wanted to clarify the dynamics, but also don't want to give much more space to it because it thread expands on negativity.

So new feedback on the exchange are most welcome, discussions on the power dynamics are always welcome of course (but on a new thread), and for the rest, I'd personally prefer to start putting this behind.

OFF-TOPIC

In my opinion and Lucio may view this the same way, this is a true but risky message to post in the public forum because

  • It highlights Lucio's coercive power which may reinforce the narrative of Lucio bullying Shan
  • People may feel the need to power-align in their feedback rather than giving honest feedback
  • People may feel Lucio is using his authority in power dynamics to shape what they should do and feel limited in their freedom to express and choose their behaviour in a controversial issue

I wanted to type this because people may misconstrue the message as not objective.

Thanks for helping me to understand the underlying dynamics even though it's a potentially risky message to type.
As he has mentioned, it thread expands on negativity.

Feel free to not reply or continue if it's not helpful to do so.

Lucio, I wanted to offer my thoughts on what you said to me in this thread:

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 21, 2021, 9:09 pm

I'll give you a different opinion here.

It might come across as tough love opinion, and I might be wrong.
But you know it's all for a good cause, and it's better to be wrong and potentially deliver value, than agree and deliver no value.

When you preface your feedback by saying it could be tough love, it anchors expectations high.

So, now, I expect there to be some tough love somewhere in your feedback. And, that high anchor draws up my perception of how tough the feedback actually is which makes it hit harder (see "the assimilation effect").

In my case, the feedback didn't feel tough at all because:

  • Antifragile ego: I've taken great strides in internalizing my antifragile ego
  • I look at feedback objectively: I don't feel like anyone's feedback has to do with me, I feel like it has more to do with a behavior I happened to choose in a given situation. And, I can always change that behavior to avoid mistakes in the future and make my best better
  • Your positive reputation precedes you: You've shown yourself to care about your community and deliver feedback as constructively and positively as you can. So, I don't expect feedback from you to hit hard because of how kind your past feedback has been (which erased the high anchor)

So, in my case, the feedback was great. Yet, in the cases of other members, that "tough love" statement might actually be counterproductive.

So, moving forward, maybe you can say something like:

Lucio: "I want to be positive, but I'll also be very honest..."

The "I want to be positive" and "I'll be honest" are what Nick Kolenda calls "dispreferred markers" (see "DARRP") based on a study called "the dispreferred marker effect" [Hamilton, Vohs, and McGrill, 2014].

It softens the blow of negative information when you want to deliver it without anchoring expectations for that negative information high.

All that said, I learned a lot about assertive feedback-giving from you, so there's a chance I'm way off here. I'm only sharing my thoughts and feelings from my experience receiving your feedback from that post.

If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense or you disagree, you're welcome to let me know.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Thank you for the feedback, Ali!

It makes a lot of sense.

I added extra-cushion for a few reasons:

  1. The initial message made me think you might have been negatively predisposed towards the organizer (and I was indirectly going to defend him, which often irks people)
  2. Sometimes people share a story unconsciously looking for support, and it often annoys them when others provide a more balanced view, rather than support (in this case, my message wasn't even balanced, I was only taking the organizer's point of view)
  3. Matthew's first message was further cementing the narrative of "the organizer was pulling power moves" (which was true, but my answer was going to partially change that supportive narrative)

Apparently, I went too far with the cushioning. Great to know.
And it actually backfired. Great to know that, too, thank you.

Plus, I respect a lot that you didn't need that cushioning and that the message didn't even feel like tough love to you.

Here it is wishing that even more people can have your same personal growth.

OFF-TOPIC on "dispreferred markers"

That thread you linked to is awesome, a hidden gem.

On using the "dispreferred markers" specifically for giving non-supportive feedback, I'm not convinced though.

To me, it seems like a small power move.
The sub-communication is: I want to be positive (= I am good, I have good intentions), BUT (= your behavior doesn't allow me to completely follow through on my good intentions).

It seems rather self-referential, a move to cover one's ass, and shifting the blame of the tough feedback on the receiver.
Might be effective in a meeting or with a crowd of onlookers, but it doesn't seem like an eagle's approach.

OFF-TOPIC

Ali Scarlett has reacted to this post.
Ali Scarlett
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

This is pre-emptive.
Feel free to let me know if I'm writing too much on the forum.
Sometimes I contemplate a lot and feel the need to write out my thoughts.
Especially if I get emotionally triggered by a social situation like the last one.

I also feel that the more I advance, the more complex things get sometimes.
Then, I write even more.

Hi Lucio,

When you quote my name as follows, I feel that you were uncomfortable with my post:

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 30, 2021, 6:22 pm

Matthew,

The ones you propose can all work, but have a much different effect. They jolt the asker, and (slightly) break rapport.
Sometimes it's exactly what you want, so they work in different circumstances.

The responses in the original post are the "smooth" types, that avoid answering while also maintaining rapport.
The "smooth" format is helpful because it's an evergreen and you can't go too wrong with them: it's something you can use with almost anyone, including your boss or anyone you don't want to call out or potentially (publicly) disempower.

I was exploring alternatives to your given response.
Because I felt that there were proper answers to "How much was it?".

Did you feel that it was out of context?


I feel uncomfortable when you say

I'm glad you wrote here.

It feels like you're rewarding me on where to write in the forum.

Hey Matthew,

Yeah, fair point about writing "Matthew" first, especially because I don't often use that format -and used it a few times in situations when I did want to create some distance-.
It can be used as if to make it more "official" -especially when one usually writes "hey" first, as I often do-.
Similar to calling someone by surname when you were calling them by name.

BUT, it wasn't my intention there -not consciously, at least, and not going to go explore the unconscious since it's all good-.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on September 30, 2021, 7:10 pm

I feel uncomfortable when you say

I'm glad you wrote here.

It feels like you're rewarding me on where to write in the forum.

What I meant was "I'm glad you wrote here and gave me the chance to expand on this".

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to clarify!
I totally understand now.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
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