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Thank you for the kind words, Lucio! Compliments feel even more heartwarming when they come from someone who deserves the same compliments.

Thank you, Ali and Bel!

 

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Lucio BuffalmanoAli ScarlettBel

Hey guys.

My views on not answering people's input (and why the boundaries between giving and taking are elusive)

In my perspective, as long as it's respectful, any kind of reply to a thread is giving. Even when the answer was not helpful or if there was disagreement or criticism, the person who answers took the time to read, to analyse, to present her perspective with the intention of helping. But there is also an element of taking, because the replier expects something: acknowledgment, gratitude, feedback - even if it means to point out what one liked or disliked about the answer. The one who answers, just like the receiver, is seeking self-development. If the receiver of the reply does not acknowledge it somehow, she denies this chance for self-development for the replier - besides disempowering her.

When someone creates a thread on a public forum - or address people in public in general - it is already some kind of taking. Even when presented as an "advice", "contributing" or "sharing", the person who creates a thread is still implicitly expecting people to pay attention to her and to give her their time and feedback (otherwise she would have preferred to talk to a wall or something). But it's also giving, because what she has to say or ask may be of interest to the others and help to advance their lives. And not listening to the speaker disempowers the speaker.

There are no hard frontiers between giving and taking - they exist in a continuum and within the very same act (here included speech acts). Of course, one thing can be more taking than giving or vice versa, and I'm pretty sure some things are purely taking (If I give you a punch it is not "giving" regardless of the lingo). But more often than not, whenever someone utters a word or makes a gesture, there is both an element of giving and taking within it at the same time. A lot of credit scalping/swapping/erasing/inflating happen because people think binarily in terms of giving and taking and thus fail do address both sides of the coin.

In the real life, empowering and disempowering can and should be used (judiciously and strategically). But in a forum where everyone is seeking personal development, feedback is all the more important - both when you create and reply to topics. That's true even when there are power moves embedded in the text - that is expected after all, since we are all here to learn how to be more effective communicators.

From my part, I contribute to threads even when it's creator doesn't give back, if I'm interested in that discussion. This is strategic since I still get to learn (so it makes sense to show I'm part of the "demand" for more topics from this person/that subject) and I can always receive feedback from someone else who replies. In my face to face interactions out and about in the "real world", when what is said/not said and done/not done really matters and power is real, the same thing would hardly happen.

 

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Lucio BuffalmanoJohn FreemanAnonTransitioned

Are you referring to a specific thread?

I'm referring to a few threads and more than one person. So, to clarify, I think this specific issue is better addressed as more of a general etiquette/effectiveness discussion rather than a personal feedback.

Nicely said.  Other reasons I chime in.  To give back.  Content is king websites with dust bunnies soon disappear   Lucio has added to people s lives he deserves to become rich.  I like helping out as I have been helped.  I m sure if you deconstruct that it is all ego and brain chemicals.  But I would say when there are so many A holes in the world don't question the magic guys.

I enjoy working with the community to develop content that may go into PU or be linked to.  PU is already brilliant so that s a good challenge.

There's definitely a consciously self-interested component of keeping my credit good.  I know some of my case studies from the world of work are longer than I would like and full of project jargon.   If people are going to wade through all of that to help me I am going to help them anytime I can.   And the great thing about discussion is help can be indirect.  I might say something on it thread that sparks a thought in somebody else and they have much better value to give on that subject then I did but still it was the catalyst

So like all communities it's a little bit town and a little bit country swings and roundabouts the rough with the smooth.  And to quote Billy Joel you can come in anytime you want to my Italian restaurant.

BTW guys I would like to say we are all learners here and try and be kind to each other and give the benefit of the doubt guys.  A couple of times I have been called out here for making power moves in a post.  Reality was I was dashing off something between meetings or waiting at a traffic light.   The content I had contributed to the thread was good but somebody took issue with a sentence.  Which is why I generally I stay out of the dating forum it seems to be a minefield because most guys think somehow they are naturally gods gift to women and it is emotionally charged

Generally in life I go with ignorance and fuckups over conspiracies.  Yes you will hit some evil people with dangerous power move skills but a lot of that is just rote behaviour they heard it at some meeting and they use it.   They are not even being intentionally evil they just think that's how people should talk.  RANT /OFF

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Lucio BuffalmanoJohn FreemanKavalierBel

Great analysis, Kavalier.

I must say that I always stopped at a much shallower level :).

But I'm still generally very watchful of give/take in life.

Quote from Kavalier on June 20, 2022, 6:34 pm

From my part, I contribute to threads even when it's creator doesn't give back, if I'm interested in that discussion. This is strategic since I still get to learn (so it makes sense to show I'm part of the "demand" for more topics from this person/that subject) and I can always receive feedback from someone else who replies. In my face to face interactions out and about in the "real world", when what is said/not said and done/not done really matters and power is real, the same thing would hardly happen.

I tend instead to "give one or two chances".

Then if one keeps not answering, saying "thanks" or providing feedback, I would not answer again in the future -or answer with less depth than I would to someone who provides feedback and/or contributes-.
Especially so if that person was given a feedback here and still ignored it.
BUT... Sometimes some of those threads turn into goldmines (which says a lot about the level of the forum, BTW), and then I adopt your same approach (and not doing so would mean losing a chance to advance the discipline and offer better products, and that is a higher priority).

Quote from Transitioned on June 20, 2022, 11:00 pm

Nicely said.  Other reasons I chime in.  To give back.  Content is king websites with dust bunnies soon disappear   Lucio has added to people s lives he deserves to become rich.  I like helping out as I have been helped.  I m sure if you deconstruct that it is all ego and brain chemicals.  But I would say when there are so many A holes in the world don't question the magic guys.

Thank you so much for the nice words, Kevin!

And I agree with you, and it's one of the reasons why I also stop at the first level of analyzing giving & taking: if one gives, he gives. Of course you can read some self-serving motive, and some of those may even be correct, but still... He's giving.

 

Quote from Transitioned on June 20, 2022, 11:00 pm

BTW guys I would like to say we are all learners here and try and be kind to each other and give the benefit of the doubt guys.  A couple of times I have been called out here for making power moves in a post.  Reality was I was dashing off something between meetings or waiting at a traffic light.   The content I had contributed to the thread was good but somebody took issue with a sentence.  Which is why I generally I stay out of the dating forum it seems to be a minefield because most guys think somehow they are naturally gods gift to women and it is emotionally charged

Generally in life I go with ignorance and fuckups over conspiracies.  Yes you will hit some evil people with dangerous power move skills but a lot of that is just rote behaviour they heard it at some meeting and they use it.   They are not even being intentionally evil they just think that's how people should talk.  RANT /OFF

Yeah, great point, and I must say: it never one single time happened to me to feel that in anything you've done or written there was any power move or any disempowering anything.
So yeah, if over hundreds of messages and thousands of sentences one is fully in the clear... He's probably "clear for good" 🙂

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AnonTransitionedKavalier
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I do read most threads that pop up in 'activity' every day. I don't contribute to most though.

IME, factors (for not contributing) could be:

  • I don't have personal experience on the topic. For example I tend to contribute when it's something about dating (I've dated a lot, and put serious effort in being social), when it's about business/value creation, and when it's about complex strategic power stuff with multiple stakeholders with different incentives. I tend not to contribute when it's about 1:1 interactions such as boss:employee, friend conversations, or peers at work.
  • I'm not that deep into PU to pattern-match and answer, and even if I do, someone else could do it better (and will)
  • I don't have evidence that what I'm going to say is anything other than my opinion. That is, I don't have evidence that it's solving the problem

This might be limiting myself a bit too much? I'm very intentional about not dealing in bullshit (producing it or consuming it). I like clear thinking, actionable stuff. And I don't produce that easily 🙂 So better to be quiet

The forum is active enough as it is and it takes about 1hr of active reading to get on top of things, let alone producing good writing.

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Lucio BuffalmanoAnonKavalier

I think the expectations about gratefulness depends also on personal expectations and the virtual relationship you have with the person. I do agree that it takes time and thought to answer to someone so I think it deserves to be noted.

On my side: a thumbs-up is a feed-back that shows to me that the person read my answer and most of the times it's enough on my side. When I'm expecting a more elaborate answer on my feed-back is when I'm invested and I feel like I'm "in the fight" with the other person in his/her situation.

I'll be more aware thanks to you!

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Lucio BuffalmanoKavalierMMC

Kevin, Lucio, LOF, John, thanks a lot for your perspective on this!

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Lucio Buffalmano
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