Quote from John Freeman on December 16, 2022, 10:28 pm

Hello Lucio,

I read with great interest the article about the limitations of a growth mindset.

My interaction with Growfast was used as an example, rightly so.

There is one element that might have been left out of the equation.

I have been warned by you in the past due to my interactions with Matthew. So whatever happened this is what I think now: "if when I felt (don't want to start it all over again, so subjective is warranted) I was attacked I defended myself I got warned: what will happen if I defend myself again on this forum: will I get banned? "

So this is why I did not check the tone even though I felt it was inappropriate. Because last time it did not turn out great. I'm quite careful now because of the possible consequences so I want you to know it's part of my attitude.

It's your forum and your decisions, I'm not challenging any of these. What I'm sharing with you is how I feel as I see now how through your eyes how it looks like. I feel like I don't have a second chance from now so I chose to submit to Growfast (despite knowing it was not fair). Of course I want to learn. However I feel my speech has to be cautious if I don't want to pay consequences.

Even writing this I don't know what will happen to be fair. Alea jacta est.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 17, 2022, 4:09 am

Thank you for this note, John.

I'm actually glad to hear that you knew/felt it wasn't cool.
I was indeed a bit surprised you didn't call that out -and part of me wished you did-.

Now in grey to figuratively keep old stuff as old stuff:

As for that old thing, I still hold the same views strictly about the interaction(s) we discussed -not about the person, for whom I've also noticed changes for the better over time-. Everything's different today anyway. Things are cool, Matthew is not here (unluckily and hopefully he'll be back) and, most of all, it's in the past (together with that "admin warning" that is now decayed. So if you feel something is not cool, with anyone, please feel free to say it out loud).

And if you wish, please let me know if you prefer to add a link to this post or any other type of note to that lesson (I may add it anyway, but happy to hear your wishes/thoughts).

Quote from Growfast on December 17, 2022, 5:10 am

Quote from John Freeman on December 16, 2022, 10:28 pm

Hello Lucio,

I read with great interest the article about the limitations of a growth mindset.

My interaction with Growfast was used as an example, rightly so.

There is one element that might have been left out of the equation.

I have been warned by you in the past due to my interactions with Matthew. So whatever happened this is what I think now: "if when I felt (don't want to start it all over again, so subjective is warranted) I was attacked I defended myself I got warned: what will happen if I defend myself again on this forum: will I get banned? "

So this is why I did not check the tone even though I felt it was inappropriate. Because last time it did not turn out great. I'm quite careful now because of the possible consequences so I want you to know it's part of my attitude.

It's your forum and your decisions, I'm not challenging any of these. What I'm sharing with you is how I feel as I see now how through your eyes how it looks like. I feel like I don't have a second chance from now so I chose to submit to Growfast (despite knowing it was not fair). Of course I want to learn. However I feel my speech has to be cautious if I don't want to pay consequences.

Even writing this I don't know what will happen to be fair. Alea jacta est.

I am seeing this now and am quite surprised and disappointed that you didn’t tag me even though I am on the forum and the talk is about our interaction. To me it comes across as talking behind my back/ gossiping. (Or maybe you honestly forgot to tag me in which case its alright)

As far as the article on growth mindset is mentioned, I see that I did some power moves on you after I read the article. (Thanks to @lucio, I honestly never thought it came across as a power move and thought I was defending myself from a eagle mentality).

If my tone came across strong/curt, I will apologize.

As far as my views on the message of yours (“you are more than welcome to share your ideas”), I still think it comes across as a power move on us (especially the “welcome” part which treats us as some guests entering your house).

Feel free to mention tour thoughts on this.

 

 

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 17, 2022, 5:50 am

Thank you for the note, Growfast!

As for this general situation, I'll say my piece and engage for what concerns me in this, and then let you clarify what concerns you two between you two.

What mainly concerns me in this is the lesson.

So, about the lesson:

I respect both of you, and my aim was to share an example for learning purposes while being fair and respectful to you both.
But if any of you, John and Growfast, felt in any way that the lesson misrepresented the events and/or that there was anything that wasn't cool towards you, please do let me know.
And I'm more than happy to talk about edits and amendments, and to move forward with them.

Quote from John Freeman on December 18, 2022, 10:11 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 17, 2022, 4:09 am

Thank you for this note, John.

I'm actually glad to hear that you knew/felt it wasn't cool.
I was indeed a bit surprised you didn't call that out -and part of me wished you did-.

Now in grey to figuratively keep old stuff as old stuff:

As for that old thing, I still hold the same views strictly about the interaction(s) we discussed -not about the person, for whom I've also noticed changes for the better over time-. Everything's different today anyway. Things are cool, Matthew is not here (unluckily and hopefully he'll be back) and, most of all, it's in the past (together with that "admin warning" that is now decayed. So if you feel something is not cool, with anyone, please feel free to say it out loud).

Alright cool, thanks: I agree, let's do this.

And if you wish, please let me know if you prefer to add a link to this post or any other type of note to that lesson (I may add it anyway, but happy to hear your wishes/thoughts).

No need. My post was to clarify things between you and me, I'm glad it did.

But if any of you, John and Growfast, felt in any way that the lesson misrepresented the events and/or that there was anything that wasn't cool towards you, please do let me know.

It is a good example of going too far with the growth mindset as you pointed out. The clarification was for the background of the example between us as I said earlier. So I think it's valuable for other people as it is with your comments as they are.

@Growfast: it's all good man. As Lucio said: it's in the past.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 19, 2022, 4:18 pm

Got it, thank you John, added an "addendum" now.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 21, 2022, 1:22 am

Hello John,

Quick opinion on this one:

Quote from John Freeman on December 20, 2022, 6:20 pm

Thanks Ali for your feed-back!

About the title: it's all good as it is now. Thanks for the proposition though! 🙂

On the technical side, I also feel that the current title is great: brief and to the point, with all the right keywords.

Still, if I had been in Ali's shoes, I'd have felt disempowered by that reply (Ali may differ in that, and curious to hear his take if he wishes to do so).

So I'd have power-protected more on that.

The way it stands, it can feel like a door shut on someone's face because:

• Quick thanks doesn't match effort levels: the "thanks" is very quick compared to the time Ali took for the feedback and doesn't mention any value added (if there wasn't, then fair enough. If there was, then I'd have mentioned it. Just to keep things good, it's still a good idea to mention something good in one's reply)
• Standalone "no": the "no" standing without a justification can feel like a door shut on someone's face
• Distant "thanks": the "thanks for the proposition though" may feel corporate speak for covering one's ass with "distant politeness". One potential issue with that approach is that it feels like a stock sentence for CYA, rather than honest "thanks".
  It's great in professional settings, but in settings where one would want closer (and more informal) relationships, it may create distance (if you prefer more "professionally distant relationships", then it may work for your goals)
• Ignores Ali's moderator rights: including changing titles. Ali asking first is also a form of displaying public consideration -even respect-. Just for that public display, not doing the same back can feel like a form of power hoarding (ie.: you show consideration for me, but I don't the same back to you)

The way I'd have phrased it:

Thank you for the feedback, Ali, great value in that (and powerful reminder on power-protecting others).

As for the title, thank you so much for asking: I appreciate that, (<--- a good, "considerate back" way to keep that consideration coming)
and your options also seem great.
To be honest, (<--- a good way to start the "direct talk")
I feel the current title is fine because... (<---with all the above the "because" isn't needed anymore, but it still won't hurt)

P.S.:

I'm not using the "@" John because you have a different nickname for the "@".
Let me know if you're cool with using the "@".

Please share opinions...

Really curious to hear how others feel about this one.

I believe that how people perceive disempowerment depends a lot on people's level of power awareness, sensitivity, and, ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶g̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ , ego and "drive to power" (previously wrote "thirst for power" I stroke it through as it's not inherently negative to have some ego and some "drive to power").

That's my theory so far, but I'd like to hear more to have it either confirmed, or disproved.

Quote from Ali Scarlett on December 21, 2022, 2:31 am

Thank you for the note, Lucio!

Yes, I noticed that small social "door shut" and totally agree with your thoughts above.

And yet, I didn't feel it was so disempowering that I needed to address it. (It was neutral enough to frame ignore and move on, in my opinion.)

But, glad you took the time to write a breakdown of the dynamics because it was very insightful for me. If it had become a pattern, perhaps, I'd have made a similar (yet, less wise/valuable :) ) post as well, so thanks again.

Also, in my opinion, if one is short on time, I also would've been cool with this as a response:

Thank you for the feedback, Ali, great value in that.

As for the title, thank you so much for asking: I appreciate that and your options also seem great.

To be honest though, I feel the current title is already fine (and, of course, you're always free to disagree) (<---this last part in parentheses shows respect for the receiver's moderator rights without having to expend too much effort in a long-winded justification)

Happy to read any thoughts.

Quote from Maverick on December 21, 2022, 7:45 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 21, 2022, 1:22 am

Hello John,

Quick opinion on this one:

On the technical side, I also feel that the current title is great: brief and to the point, with all the right keywords.

Still, if I had been in Ali's shoes, I'd have felt disempowered by that reply (Ali may differ in that, and curious to hear his take if he wishes to do so).

So I'd have power-protected more on that.

The way it stands, it can feel like a door shut on someone's face because:

• Quick thanks doesn't match effort levels: the "thanks" is very quick compared to the time Ali took for the feedback and doesn't mention any value added (if there wasn't, then fair enough. If there was, then I'd have mentioned it. Just to keep things good, it's still a good idea to mention something good in one's reply)
• Standalone "no": the "no" standing without a justification can feel like a door shut on someone's face
• Distant "thanks": the "thanks for the proposition though" may feel corporate speak for covering one's ass with "distant politeness". One potential issue with that approach is that it feels like a stock sentence for CYA, rather than honest "thanks".
  It's great in professional settings, but in settings where one would want closer (and more informal) relationships, it may create distance (if you prefer more "professionally distant relationships", then it may work for your goals)
• Ignores Ali's moderator rights: including changing titles. Ali asking first is also a form of displaying public consideration -even respect-. Just for that public display, not doing the same back can feel like a form of power hoarding (ie.: you show consideration for me, but I don't the same back to you)

The way I'd have phrased it:

Thank you for the feedback, Ali, great value in that (and powerful reminder on power-protecting others).

As for the title, thank you so much for asking: I appreciate that, (<--- a good, "considerate back" way to keep that consideration coming)
and your options also seem great.
To be honest, (<--- a good way to start the "direct talk")
I feel the current title is fine because... (<---with all the above the "because" isn't needed anymore, but it still won't hurt)

Agreed that the ideal way to ask would have been like the one Lucio suggested, but it really wasn't very dis-empowering to Ali, on the power scale I would rate it a 2 on a 10, the 2 because the answer could have been more warmer, and not so abrupt. Also since it is a public forum, and Ali was power protecting it would have been if John could have power protected as much as Ali did. If John's answer was aimed at someone who he is not going to interact again with, this answer might have been sufficient, but for someone with whom there will be further interactions, this answer may not have been sufficient, given that, Ali invested in  much time and effort.  it could be construed as the "first cut" in the "death by thousand cuts" if this was a repeating pattern. Since it is not, I wouldn't stress to much. If the short thank you was a result due to being pressed for time, I would expand on the thank you and feedback later on when I get the time.

Thank You