Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 5:03 am

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 5, 2022, 3:54 pm

Yeah planning is not "better".

My feeling is this.
The thing is he implicitly framed at the beginning that planning is better himself by saying

Friend: Hey Matthew, keen to meet next week?

Then, I was on the same wavelength as him so that I thought why not go ahead and confirm the date.

"Next week" is quite open, it's not really planning.

It's like "meet sometime next week".

BUT... If you feel a certain way and you only want to meet someone under your way of scheduling things, then your angle is valid simply because it's your way of doing things.

My initial message does not invalidate your approach, just added some nunances.

One of which was not necessarily to impose the "let's fix the date", but adopt the same attitude of "keeping yourself half-free and maintaining the option of moving or canceling".

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 5:07 am

Quote from ZenDancer on January 5, 2022, 8:02 pm

Really interesting exploration here. Is it possible that there's an element of social anxiety in your friend's vaccilating? Some times people have difficulty committing to social engagements, but it's more about their own insecurities than any kind of power play....

Good point, it might be.

Or it might be that he's messaging a girl he really likes and he's afraid of committing to anything else because he wants to be free "just in case" -often not a good approach for the simple fact that you're over-investing emotionally-.

Finally, just as a reminder, we're doing some guesswork here for the sake of learning, but in most real-life situations it's not up to you to think it over that much.
Just think "this is not cool towards me" and call it out / correct it.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 5:10 am

Quote from Transitioned on January 5, 2022, 10:38 pm

Interesting discussion.  I have a friend who does this all the time.  He is manipulative by nature.  The only other time I have encountered this is in dating.  And that's definitely ladies keeping their options open.  For me it's like any annoying behaviour if it's a one-off I would ignore it  if it's a repeated pattern then you have to deal with it.

Yeah, that approach, to most guys, comes across as sneaky - manipulative.

So actually if Matthew wanted to try a new thing -and potentially even help this guy out of self-harming behavior-, he might tell him on Monday, in person, what was the issue with that, and how it makes him come across.

It draws Matthew's boundaries, while at the same time potentially helping his friend to be more of an "eagle".

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 5:37 am

Quote from Transitioned on January 5, 2022, 10:38 pm

The only other time I have encountered this is in dating.  And that's definitely ladies keeping their options open.  For me it's like any annoying behaviour if it's a one-off I would ignore it  if it's a repeated pattern then you have to deal with it.

Yeah, in dating it happens more often.

The assertive approach can also work in dating.
Some women can be jolted by the high-power approach and love it.

But the big downside of that approach in dating is that it sub-communicates that she's busier and you want it more than her.
So it might not fly with busier, attractive, or higher-society ladies.

But I'll drop it now as it's off topic :)

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 6, 2022, 5:40 am

Transitioned: Yep - games.  They want you to be available when they want.  Also if it doesn't happen they can put some social debt on you.

Matthew: The thing is he implicitly framed at the beginning that planning is better himself by saying

Friend: Hey Matthew, keen to meet next week?

Then, I was on the same wavelength as him so that I thought why not go ahead and confirm the date.

Lucio: "Next week" is quite open, it's not really planning.

It's like "meet sometime next week".

Thanks a lot for the advice.

Actually, my concern is not so much about sticking to my way of planning things.

My concern is that when I say yes to "keen to meet next week?", I am committing to next week so, for example, I have to be in the same city.

Otherwise, if I have plans, then I have to pull out my calendar and list all the times that I'm not free.
Or I give the days I'm free like Thurs, Friday is good with me.
In short, I do a lot of the work to set expectations.

Then, as Kevin advised, I have to renege my "yes" if I cannot make the meeting happen and incur social debt.

Or is this a cultural thing?
Is it socially acceptable to say "yes" to "keen to meet next week?" and then not follow through when my friend asks to meet?

Maybe I'm overthinking a lot of things because this is a casual meet-up.

I think I subconsciously compared this to a client saying

Client: Matthew, could you give me a project update next week?

If I say yes, then I have to start preparing the presentation and demos.

But this is a casual meet-up so there's no social contract to saying "yes" to "keen to meet next week?".

I tend to think a lot whenever I have said "yes" to something or am going to say "yes" to another thing.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 6:44 am

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 6, 2022, 5:40 am

Maybe I'm overthinking a lot of things because this is a casual meet-up.

I think I subconsciously compared this to a client saying

Client: Matthew, could you give me a project update next week?

If I say yes, then I have to start preparing the presentation and demos.

But this is a casual meet-up so there's no social contract to saying "yes" to "keen to meet next week?".

I tend to think a lot whenever I have said "yes" to something or am going to say "yes" to another thing.

Certainly possible and I do get that feeling sometimes.

BUT...

Also don't "overthink the overthinking" :).

If your preference is to take casual catch-ups seriously, that's your preference, and it's not written anywhere you gotta change that (well, unless it's harming your social relationships, and I personally believe a more chill style is more advantageous for several reasons, but that's another topic now).

And it's as fair of you to demand that others accommodate -or move more towards your style- as it is fair for others to demand that you "relax" a bit (and then who has the upper hand is up to power dynamics and social/value exchanges).

But that goes beyond this specific case (feel free to open a new thread if you want).
In this case, the disempowering and "gamey" effects of the "tentatively yes" + "don't worry" was obvious and everyone agreed on that.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 6, 2022, 6:22 pm

Thanks a lot Lucio, that helps a lot with regards to the power dynamics of negotiating preferences.

I'm afraid I wasn't clear in my question.

Is it socially acceptable to say "yes" to "keen to meet next week?" and then not follow through when my friend asks to meet?

The core problem is that I feel lost about what "yes" to next week entails.
Like what am I supposed to provide on my side? (or commit for that matter)

And it's as fair of you to demand that others accommodate -or move more towards your style- as it is fair for others to demand that you "relax" a bit (and then who has the upper hand is up to power dynamics and social/value exchanges).

I think this is one of the core issue.

The main value offering he had was the warm gesture at the start.
After the exchange, I don't really want to meet him anymore.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 7:03 pm

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 6, 2022, 6:22 pm

Is it socially acceptable to say "yes" to "keen to meet next week?" and then not follow through when my friend asks to meet?

The core problem is that I feel lost about what "yes" to next week entails.

I'd say it depends on the situation.

Generally speaking, there probably are many situations where it's fair.

If you feel this is such a situation, then it's fair.

I can recall one time with a friend who had the same approach, and I also lost interest.

So I'd say: don't let the initial "yes" tie you up.
If people play power move, you have all the right not to waste your time with a disempowering power mover.

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 7, 2022, 3:22 am

Thanks a lot for the advice Lucio.

So I'd say: don't let the initial "yes" tie you up.
If people play power move, you have all the right not to waste your time with a disempowering power mover.

Very helpful advice.
If something better comes up on Monday, I will gladly take that over the meeting.

I will talk with my friend in person on Monday and see how it goes.