Mist's Journal

Quote from ZenDancer on January 7, 2022, 5:52 pm

 

 

It's difficult in all honesty because as a self development guy putting "Get Laid" ahead of nearly everything else is tough for me to reconcile. Good Looking Loser has good info on this "Wannabe Player's Guilt".

 

Hi there Mist,

I'm glad you're sharing this. I'm in a very similar situation - in my case 'getting back out there' after a long absence. It's hard at first. When it comes to putting 'getting laid' ahead of everything else, it's very much the case that I have to make this a singular focus and priority in order to push past the internal blockages. In reality I'm not putting sex ahead of everything else - I'm just adopting a mindset of it being my only priority on a very temporary basis in order to get things moving... There are plenty of other things that are as important or more important to me, but just at this moment they don't require that level of immediate focus.... the same can be said of mindsets that need to be used... I might adopt a frame that is very 'PUA' in order to push past approach anxiety, but in reality I never see other human beings in the kind of predatory way that can sometimes be found in PUA circles (in my experience, very very few PUA are actually callous assholes, though of course some are)...

Just my own experience, of course, but sometimes beliefs are just things I use as tools that are appropriate for the moment...

Quote from Transitioned on January 8, 2022, 12:28 am

Does you credit that you are thinking about this because it means you were seeing these ladies as human beings instead of  just your next notch.  Enjoying the interaction.  If you put yourself out there enough you ll get laid randomly and make some friends along calling the way.   building on zendancers point women love games and attention so no guilt required.  A lot of guys seem to think they are gaming girls.  That's overly optimistic.  Your not creating an outcome.  Your having some fun.  That also differentiates you from a lot of generic guys.  And that might get you the outcome.  Men chase women choose.  You just can't chase too hard or all the time.

 

What I am curious about from you younger guys is I am from the generation that uses social media but it's not a big part of my life.  How do you guys manage the  crossover with friend groups and hookups.?

 

 

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on January 8, 2022, 8:00 pm

Mist1102: In this case it's my sex life/dating life. So you got it sort of. Women are prioritized sort of, but even deeper it's prioritizing you. Which I struggle with. I'm in a twilight zone between "ME ME ME" and "THEM THEM THEM".

Lucio: And being able to prioritize women: what a privilege!

ZenDancer: When it comes to putting 'getting laid' ahead of everything else, it's very much the case that I have to make this a singular focus and priority in order to push past the internal blockages. In reality I'm not putting sex ahead of everything else - I'm just adopting a mindset of it being my only priority on a very temporary basis in order to get things moving... There are plenty of other things that are as important or more important to me, but just at this moment they don't require that level of immediate focus.... the same can be said of mindsets that need to be used... I might adopt a frame that is very 'PUA' in order to push past approach anxiety, but in reality I never see other human beings in the kind of predatory way that can sometimes be found in PUA circles (in my experience, very very few PUA are actually callous assholes, though of course some are)...

You can do seduction monk mode as paradoxical as that sounds.

Although I recommend doing some vocal work so that your throat does not get fried.
Especially if you go to nightclubs on consecutive days.

Sometimes there's an area in life that you would like to greatly improve upon (or holding you back).
And one has to drop everything else to have a singular focus to get that up to speed.
Because real learning and practice take a lot out of an individual.
Especially when the learning involves putting yourself on the line.

Or you want to enjoy yourself with full pleasure on something for a period of time.
All good with that too.

What I am curious about from you younger guys is I am from the generation that uses social media but it's not a big part of my life.  How do you guys manage the  crossover with friend groups and hookups.?

That's part of the personal appeal of the cold approach in my opinion.
You and the girl and no one else.

I mainly use social media for business: ads and content marketing.
When it comes to managing friend groups and hookups on social media, I don't have much personal experience.

Quote from Mist1102 on January 22, 2022, 12:21 pm

Recently really messed up with a girl. Here's the end of the story. I might add more context soon, but this was me ending it. Original posted on Chase Amante's SkilledSeducer.

[spoiler title="Me Letting Her Down Gently"]I Almost Flaked Her (DR/Date Report)/HBWoMan Conclusion

This isn't the original part. 2

Not usual that I'll really tie a bow on a set. Normally it's some ambiguous affair. Well it's pretty straightforward that I'm likely to dud, just never so formalized. They come and they go and so do I. That's just how it is right now. Don't ask don't tell, we "move" on.

I guess it isn't that simple all the time.

Days Following The Date

Saturday

Date Night / Fuck Up

Yay!

Sunday

I didn't message her and had no plans to unless I was going to see her again. I wanted to figure out what exactly happened and how I planned to maneuver things with future sets and her after some deliberation of the factors and somewhat her as a person. Mostly the benefits vs the risks.

Was mostly chill. Was writing Part. 2 for more details as I was really bare bones in part. 1 (also poorly written as I was rushing before school). Daydreamed about a smooth escalation on girls and was looking into some articles concerning issues I ran into.

Then at the end of the day

12:28Am
HBWoMan: Hey, so what happened last night? 12:28Am

Razzled me. I mean if you really put it on paper all that happened is we intimately danced and were hugged up after a very slow and hesitant escalation with me mostly guiding, but mostly stalling when the iron was hot, reigniting the heat a lot and then getting my kiss rejected. Not really in FRA territory like at all.

I will acknowledge this was a lot for her though which concerned me on a couple levels, but I'm not going to get to inner gamey with this post. Not the topic at hand.

I reply

12:29 Am
Mist: Hi HBWoMan with what?
Is this message for me haha

An obvious gaslight, but I was hoping either she would give away more of her cards so I could see the extent of my FU and or she would internalize that she's overthinking and uncalibrated and switch her tune due to the (false) warmth and confusion which has worked before.

Monday

I'm freaking out thinking of about million different positions and angles. Very sleeper deprived and blow a gasket in the chat. Catching the attention of the homies where they provide perspective on the interaction and my handling/view of it. Great stuff. I couldn't see it and or want to hear it as I was in fight or flight mode. Zero sum mode.

9:18AM
HBWoMan: I mean what exactly were your intentions when we were in my dorm, because I really wasn't expecting that at all.

11:33 AM
Mist: ?
What's going on HBWoMan?

One more futile attempt at getting more of her cards/ play at everything being ok.

3:21
HBWoMan: I just want to know what was going on in your head when we were hanging out

I don't respond until the next day. I have homework and I'm on hyperdrive thinking of every fucking position in the book, imagining she gets scornful and FRA's my ass, and the reputation fallout.

Not really too concerned about her or her feelings.

I'm only looking to come out ontop. Did not care about her. I only cared what she could do if this was mismanaged any further since she was closeby to my life.

I sort of missed the noncommittal ghosts of yore...I knew I couldn't just clean my hands of this.

Tuesday

Equipped with a gameplay and some perspective from the homies I sent

12:57Am
Mist: Ok. Getting Swamped, but I'll hit you up tomorrow lady. it's a promise

Pretty bad message imo. I was actually busy, but after 2 days of dodging and deflecting giving...reads as very cold. Also communicating scarcity and business when she's repeatedly shown she wants warmth, connection, patience... lol.

11:13Am
Mist: Ok what time do you finish your classes?

...
I know our school schedule also from dealing with her after 20 or so days I know how responsive and chasey she is. She's taking too long. We're past the stage of friendly chit chat though. I keep my formal and impersonal distance but add my availability. Could've came off as an ask to actually see her...which it definitely wasn't but text is flawed af and I didn't want to address the elephant in the room. Her feelings and my dismissal.

11:21
Mist: I get out at 5:00

3:42
HBWoMan: I'm busy today

I considered ghosting her at this point. I really did.

The issue is she's too closeby and how she looks back on Saturday matter's. Lofty's

Lofty said:

Don’t have ego, who cares, you're doing it for both of you - just say something to leave her feeling better and help both sides move on as cordially as possible.

kept ringing in my head on why I couldn't just say "Fuck it. Bye bye." With that in mind I decide to chase her down a bit. Which is sorta funny. Never had to chase a girl down to lightly reject her after blowing her off.

Time to address the elephant.

3:55pm
Mist: Hey HBWoMan, I recognize there is some confusion and would like to talk about that quickly but not with texting - you good if I call you then?

5:18pm
HBWoMan: What are you going to say?

Took a long nap. Very busy day as well as tons of stress hormones trying to manage this as it's too close to my actual life and with very little upside anymore.

10:29pm
Mist: Idk say what’s up and then talk about your question…your texts come off as if you’d rather not… I could be wrong though as texting is flawed communication. Am I wrong? If you don't want to, we don't have to HBWoMan

11:13
HBWoMan: You can call

I take a minute to collect my breath and put lofty's post in front of me. Trying to collect my pacing and the frames. Also plan a reward as rejecting someone is really fucking tiring. Especially when for all intents and purposes the one you're rejecting isn't in the wrong.

Took maybe 8 minutes.

Mist: Calls

HBWoMan: *Doesn't Answer*

I'm pretty over it. But then like my guardian angel this rings again

Lofty said:

1. Escalating or dragging this out in any way
2. Not diffusing her negative feelings, which actually may be riskier to you than boosting them up (you say it's a really small town with the community college, etc, so wouldn't want seepage into other parts of your life)
3. Not focusing on her emotions, how she felt, and how she feels
4. Not learning from this, and not using this as an opportunity to get better

Lofty said:

Don’t have ego, who cares, you're doing it for both of you - just say something to leave her feeling better and help both sides move on as cordially as possible.

I stick it out and decide if she messages me I'll call her.

11:50
HBWoMan: I'm free now.

12:00
Mist: Calls

The Call

I'm on my bed with my laptop looking at the written out frames and considerations. As well as a sinking sense that I'm dealing with a borderline autorejected and to make it better her response time and demeanor gives me the perspective I'm not just talking to her. She's getting counciled by someone. Hopefully not her roommates ugh. Too closeby.

Here's the transcript. I recorded it for review and I think also so I could have another degree of distance/insulation just in case she gets scornful. Cringe to listen to.

HBWoMan: Hello?

Mist: Hello?....
WASSUP!

HBWoMan: Hey!

Mist: How you been?

HBWoMan: I'm good.

Mist: Yeah, I'm chilling. They have a project coming up so they're like "LET'S DO THIS- EVEN THOUGH WE JUST GOT BACK- we're going straight in." I'm just like "Nice...that's great-thanks guys! I definitely wasn't chilling or anything..." - What's your classes looking like?

HBWoMan: what

Mist: What are YOUR classes looking like right now?

HBWoMan: They're mostly going fine not too hard though...

Mist: That's good to hear-that's good to hear... Alright... you messaged meee yesterday? And...You were asking me about Saturday right?

HBWoMan: mhm

Mist: Am I correct in sensing the confusion and stuff like that.

HBWoMan: MHM HMM

Mist: Ok. yeah I cannn-I can definitely understand that...Ummm...I definitely do not want to create any bad feelings for you at all because I think you're really cool, incredibly introspective, and I think that your art is like awesome... and it makes...for a really valuable thing for people around you(?) and the world in general...so like definitely that's never-that's like the least thing I'd ever want to do. Just letting you know that upfront.

HBWoMan:Ok.....................

Mist:...............(God. I hate this so fucking much.).....................

An Eternity Later

Mist: So yeah let me...ummm.... erase like....the confusion(?)... sooo let's seeeee- what do you-like- want to know specifically?

HBWoMan: Mmmm... I guess... what your intentions were going into Saturday night?

(To fuck)

Mist: Intention-Like what do you mean?

HBWoMan: Like what you were planning to do.

Mist: Oh, ok gotcha. Sooooo yeah basically just like get to know you, have a good time, and chillax and shit like that was basically what I was after. There was nooooo end goal....or anything like that...it was just like Let's go chill and hangout with this cool person and that was basically it - I will admi- I will... say that I think we got like...caught up in the moment. And.... there are some things I think went too fast. Personally... I just got out of a relationship not too long ago... you know it's like ummm....it kinda spooked me at the end.

HBWoMan: MmmHmm........

Mist: But yeah no that has like nothing to do with you... you're.... you're like incredible you're really cool... and I think... I think I've... I've conveyed already how great of a person you are. That's nothing on you, that's on me... that I just got out of a relationship and I'm just like NOT ready for like anything. and I definitely...think some things happened fast so.....

HBWoMan: ..........

Mist: Atleast on my side- but like what are you feeling right now?

HBWoMan; I meannnn...*huph*... was that even like a thought or was that like....purely in the moment?

Mist: Yeah it was in the moment. (Facepalm.)

HBWoMan: Ok... that's what I wanted to know. Thanks for talking.

Mist: Yeah of course! You're a good person I don't want to leave you with any bad vibes...that's the LEAST... of what I want to do or put out there. Especially to you because you're a good person that has nothing to do with you.

HBWoMan: Ok........

Mist:................Ok uhhhh, but yeah uhhhhh....that's it.

HBWoMan: Ok well... thanks for calling. Guess I'll see you around.

Mist: Yeah of course. If you uhhh pop up to any projects let me know.

HBWoMan: Ok.

Mist: Stay safe.

HBWoMan: Bye

A Few Moments later she sends this text " So are you actually into me or were you just in the mood?"

I call her back. Want to end this quickly. Texting takes too long and is easily misunderstood. Take a few breaths and resume recording

HBWoMan: Hello?

Mist: Hello. Yeah no it wasn't like a mood or anything like that. I had a good time with you from like walking around in Walmart to like, talking about cattle, farming, and dying...Hypothetically. And just like all the little nice, silly, and beautiful moments in that were there.... so no there wasn't a moodier anything like that, but I'm just getting out of a relationship... and it's kind of uhhh tumultuous thing...

HBWoMan: Mmmhmm

Mist: So I'm not just not trying to do anything in like that region of my life.... and to add onto that...even when I was in a relationship with all I was doing it was nearly impossible to do anything...but yeah no mood.

HBWoMan: Ok

Mist: Do you have anything else you want to know.

HBWoMan: No...um... I think that's good.

Mist: Ok...yeah just...let me know.

HBWoMan: Ok

Mist: Rest tight.

HBWoMan: Yep. Bye. *Sniff*

Call End

Sort of mentally exhausted writing this.

I want to be done with it. I might return to it another time with a bigger lens on inner game issues, flaws in my call approach, expectation management, empathy, and my pacing.... much later though.

I didn't fully grasp many of my fuckups until I had success and or lot's of time reading and writing before I fully got what it was telling me. This fuck up is sort of significant upon reflection.

Here's some of what I'm looking into as a result of this.

1. Empathy
2. Avoidance Attachment
3. Zero Sum Worldview and Collaborative Views
4. Guilt and Backwards Rationalization
5. A gym
6. A therapist
7. Psychopathy
8. Date formats and ending dates
9. Managing and using failure
10. Being a good student, peer, friend
11. LMR Busters
12. What place social circle anything has in what I'm trying to achieve right now
13. No moving backwards

I apologize as once again I am writing this without the small details that make the big lines really pop out. Also you probably have noticed some pretty calloused inner game... no comment for now. Might just be that way for awhile.

I'm not going to be risk averse anymore. This fuck up was a blessing. I fully intend for the experience to be utilized in my growth and betterment of future women I'm dealing with.

I wish I could tell you I won't hurt a girl or people that I don't intend to, but I cannot. I'm human and on this offbeat path I'm not going to waste my time.

"Don t ask for permission ask for forgiveness"

I'm in for some mighty fuck ups. I'm up for it too and I appreciate all who call me out when they see it.

I'm going to make many.

No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell.
– Carl Jung, Aion: Researches into the Phenomenology of the Self (1951)

The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.
- William Blake

For both our sakes my next sets won't be nearly as melodramatic.

What's the point of the melodrama anyway if we're not lovers. You have not earned that from me.

Yet I still feel like a dick. Honestly for all that maneuvering I did if I simply told her I was into her then it would've been over. I'm not though.

I did plan to fuck her. That was it.

The story she wrote for me was very nice, but it didn't compel me to anything deeper for her.

My actions have left an impression on me[/spoiler]

Big blunders and I'm pretty concerned regarding my mental landscape.

I'll press forward though.

I wish her well and hope she doesn't run into a confusing/contradictory guy like me again.

 

Quote from leaderoffun on January 22, 2022, 7:40 pm

Quote from Mist1102 on January 7, 2022, 6:19 am

Really asking myself "Do I have the guts to stand on my desires and to earnestly pursue my ends? To refuse all the narratives and take my life and it's story in my hands?"

I can't just say yes to that either. It's something I have to live by and show myself everyday.

There has to be a better frame. Hopefully action will absolve me of this insecurity and then success will embolden me further.

Freedom is the aim.

Hey Mist, I can't contribute anything to your question, other than saying that I'm in a similar spot.

Many decisions I'll make in the next few weeks will reduce my freedom. And I don't like that.

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 22, 2022, 7:47 pm

It sounds like you met a lady, but whatever happened / didn't happen, you didn't want to see her again

Bar that you didn't do any crazy shit, like forcing yourself on her or stuff like that, then...

I don't see anything particularly bad on this mate.

The one thing I'd mention is this:

It might be more about your own perception and attitude, then the events.

It sounds like you had a very apologizing attitude towards her.
And that might make her feel wronged even more than whatever happened -or didn't happen-.

Instead, try a more neutral attitude:

We did whatever we did at that time because both we felt like.
And if we did it, it's because it felt good -or at least OK- at the time.
And what do next is up to each one of us.

And if you don't feel like seeing her again, there are thousand ways of doing that humanly and ethically.

Personally, I like the fading away approach.
I know that some people feel like "it's not masculine/strong enough".
But that's BS.

It's simply easier on both, her included.

Simply say "it was nice spending time with you", and then don't ext again.
If she texts you text back some time later but never making concrete plans. Wome most of the times get it without having to make it complex.
Then make your texts more and more spaced out... And people will get the message without any heartbreaks, without any emotional and time-consuming conversations, and (often) while also keeping a better relationship.

But whatever you choose, it's often more in the attitude: you spent some time together, and it was good. Nothing else is needed (except basic human respect and decency as you'd extend to anyone else).

Quote from Mist1102 on January 22, 2022, 8:36 pm

Quote from leaderoffun on January 22, 2022, 7:40 pm

Quote from Mist1102 on January 7, 2022, 6:19 am

Really asking myself "Do I have the guts to stand on my desires and to earnestly pursue my ends? To refuse all the narratives and take my life and it's story in my hands?"

I can't just say yes to that either. It's something I have to live by and show myself everyday.

There has to be a better frame. Hopefully action will absolve me of this insecurity and then success will embolden me further.

Freedom is the aim.

Hey Mist, I can't contribute anything to your question, other than saying that I'm in a similar spot.

Many decisions I'll make in the next few weeks will reduce my freedom. And I don't like that.

 

Make a post on it friend!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 22, 2022, 7:47 pm

It sounds like you met a lady, but whatever happened / didn't happen, you didn't want to see her again

Bar that you didn't do any crazy shit, like forcing yourself on her or stuff like that, then...

I don't see anything particularly bad on this mate.

The one thing I'd mention is this:

It might be more about your own perception and attitude, then the events.

It sounds like you had a very apologizing attitude towards her.
And that might make her feel wronged even more than whatever happened -or didn't happen-.

Instead, try a more neutral attitude:

We did whatever we did at that time because both we felt like.
And if we did it, it's because it felt good -or at least OK- at the time.
And what do next is up to each one of us.

And if you don't feel like seeing her again, there are thousand ways of doing that humanly and ethically.

Personally, I like the fading away approach.
I know that some people feel like "it's not masculine/strong enough".
But that's BS.

It's simply easier on both, her included.

Simply say "it was nice spending time with you", and then don't ext again.
If she texts you text back some time later but never making concrete plans. Wome most of the times get it without having to make it complex.
Then make your texts more and more spaced out... And people will get the message without any heartbreaks, without any emotional and time-consuming conversations, and (often) while also keeping a better relationship.

But whatever you choose, it's often more in the attitude: you spent some time together, and it was good. Nothing else is needed (except basic human respect and decency as you'd extend to anyone else).

You'll be glad to hear that I actually had a very neutral tone in my recording. Part of why I didn't slow fade was the fear of an FRA (False R*** Accusation) considering she was unattractive and my only aim was sex and experience. We're in the same college and you hear those horror stories.

Her expectations were so high though, also she is a complete virgin so everything was a big deal. No forcing anything though. At most we danced.

Honestly never plan to do this again even neutrally. The slow fade works fine.

I do feel I fell into a unsavory frame a little, but mostly kept it neutral tone and we oriented with the important details.

But damn are you right on emotionally exhausting. Thanks for the added perspective.

This won't keep me down.

I also don't think I'll ever have to or will do this again. That FRA fear was strong though. Despite nothing happening. American college horror stories y'know.

'Preciate it.

Quote from Mist1102 on December 13, 2022, 7:42 am

I've always loved this site and with my focus being frames, frames, frames and more frames

what better place is there to return to my brothers 😀

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 13, 2022, 3:05 pm

Good to see you, Mist!

And BTW, don't know when it was the last time you checked again PU, but since the 8.0 upgrade the module on frames has expanded and improved a lot (and Ali is planning on a book on the topic).