Please or Register to create posts and topics.

New Book/Course: Ultimate Power

12

Lucio,

I honestly do not appreciate your reply.  It is rude, condescending, and really not the way to treat a long-time customer.  I made a request and explained why I am on the forum making this request, bot now I have to engage in a protracted exchange with you to clear myself of your implied accusations when all I really want is to get the book:

  1. To address your point 3: In no way have I implied for you to have to "do the work" to check any version for me. I already told you in my message that my version is not the latest one - to quote myself, "So yes, I did download it back then.  I would like the newer version now." I have already "done the work" to know I do not have the latest version, and came to this forum.
  2. In this forum, a few messages before, you said this: "But everyone who joined when Ultimate Power was included can still request it any time if they lost their copy." So here I am making my request.  Not because I lost my copy, but because the copy I downloaded is outdated from 2018, and while I seek to download the latest one, I can no longer do so from Power University as you have removed it from Power University. Quoting you here:
    Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on July 31, 2021, 9:26 pm
    Quote from Ali Scarlett on July 31, 2021, 9:15 pm

    Hi Lucio,

    Thanks for this update on Ultimate Power, I noticed it was missing from PU after the upgrade.

    To quickly clarify, does this mean that PU-alumni now need to purchase Ultimate Power separately if we want it?

    It's not there because it's a separate add-on, true, correct. But everyone who joined when Ultimate Power was included can still request it any time if they lost their copy.

    And that includes future updates (one of which is in the works).

     

  3. To address point 1, I went to check Power University again but it is no longer there. Hence once again, I am here, making a request.  If your counter argument is that I should have checked when it was once upon a time available on Power University before it was taken down, I am a lifetime access memberand can choose to log in 2 years later if I wish to do so, which is the case here. I had gone through the 3/4 of the previous iteration of Power University in 2019, but need a refresher only now.
  4. To address point 2, while it is your prerogative to do so, it is not unreasonable for me to provide feedback to you to keep the book which was part of the original course and its updates easily accessible to your most loyal long-time lifetime access students.  That is what lifetime access means - lifetime access to future updates, which is fully appreciated. 
  5. You said to drop you an email. However, the only email I have is connect@thepowermoves.com. The automatic reply tells me to come to  ask on the forum: "If you have questions about a product, read the sales page first. Then please see here, and if you didn't find an answer, ask here: https://thepowermoves.com/forum/forum/products-qa/" - Therefore, I am here on this forum in the Products QA section, after searching for Ultimate Power and combing through different threads, to make this request in the appropriate thread. 

So not only have I never asked you to do the work for me, I had put in work to figure out that Ultimate Power is no longer on Power University, to come to the forum to seek answers as told by your auto-reply emails, and searched to get to this thread, and made the request.

Why do I have to receive a rude reply from you for actually making a request in line with what you yourself said I could, and have to the best of my knowledge did my part to ask for the book?

Why your reply is rude:

  1. You assume I do not understand what "debt swapping" means and ask me to see a dictionary - this is condescending.  I work in finance and know full well what debt swapping means, and also that it has absolutely no relation to this conversation. For your info, from the Collin's dictionary: "A debt swap is a legal agreement where two people or companies exchange their debts, often where one has a fixed interest rate and one does not."   For your education, as per the Cambridge dictionary, it could also mean a debt-equity swap which is an agreement in which a company offers shares to its creditors (= banks and organizations that lend it money) so they will reduce the amount of its debt. If you are referring to any other definition of "debt swapping", I am not obliged to know what you are insinuating since your use of "debt swapping" is not found in the most-used and respected dictionaries, as well as its proper use in finance.
  2. I already stated that I do not have your direct email, and the only email I have come across and used is connect@thepowermoves.com which gives me an automated reply to come to this forum on product-related issues which I have done. Hence, I provided you my email.
  3. You somehow assume that I do not appreciate updates. If that was the case, why am I here politely asking for the latest version of the book multiple times?

Once again, I absolutely do not appreciate your rude reply.

I made my request. It was straightforward. Now I have to spend time to write this.

You did not provide me your direct email yet keep asking me to send you an email, even after I stated I do not have it.

So please send me the book - I provided you my email already for your convenience.

Shan

Hello Shan,

You have some good points.

With some others, I might not fully agree.

Also, there are some important misunderstandings.

Starting from my "just drop me an email" that wasn't clear to you.
And to your credit, I see why you might have not trusted email communication: I checked our com history and in the past I didn't reply to some of your emails (I had mistakenly thought your payment never came through, and later found out it was all good).

"Debt swapping" was another misunderstanding that turned out to be quite funny -not your fault by the way, I should have linked to the "dictionary of power dynamics" that I was referring to :)-.

Anyway, I did send you the current version now.

And as the relationship got strained and I think it'll save us -or at least, my- time, I also refunded you Power University, which also removes the right/obligation for future updates and communication.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Lucio,

I have received the current version as I had requested - thanks, finally.

As a long-time member who has always respected your work, it hurts me and disappoints me that you will rather remove my right to future updates and communication regarding the course and its materials, and suggest that I as a customer am a waste of your time of which time you would rather save.

You had wrongly assumed that I was asking above and beyond when I was making a sound request.  I had also legitimately followed the "rules" of only posting where relevant and which has not been previously answered, made my request politely, and took your instructions from your own auto-reply from email to come to the forum.

I do not appreciate at all your approach to your customers which is to cut them off to save your own time, especially when they make sound requests.

Of course, you are no longer obligated to reply to this given that you refunded me and pretty much kicked me off as a customer when I have not done any wrong.

Shan

Edit: To all who read this thread, Lucio removed my access to the course I had paid for 2 years ago, unilaterally deciding to "dump" me as a long-time customer when I corrected his false accusations of me in the messages above.  All because I requested for the current version of the Ultimate Power book which was a part of the course I purchased 2 years ago, which was something he himself said I can request for. You can decide for yourself if this is fair treatment to a customer or not. I frankly think it is utterly horrible he cut my access to the course when I bought it for lifetime access.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Hey Shan,

Again, you make some good points.

And both your hurt and disappointment are very appropriate in my opinion (as well as anger is, albeit you go a bit overboard in your edit section: my “like” was given before the edit).

I’m not happy it ended up this way either and I’ve made my share of mistakes.
But I stand by the final decision.

I might open a thread about this exchange later on.
There were very interesting power dynamics and social strategies (and missed opportunities, including on my side) that we can all learn from.

Cheers.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Lucio,

As when I purchased the course 2 years ago, this was promised, as is now on the site:

 Lifetime access

Once you’re in the program, it’s yours forever.
And Power University IS constantly upgrading (7th generation right now).
But once you join, you get access to all future updates and bonuses, no matter how much the price will increase.

Add the ebooks, the unlimited access, and the two bonuses lessons, and you get and you get a total of €1.004 in bonuses all included in Power University.

---

I asked for the Ultimate Power book update as I am going through the course again and the book is useful. As above, access to the updated version of this book and any other e-book in my package is included in my lifetime access.

Again, I did not do you any wrong to ask for the book on this forum nor inform you that I did not have your direct email, hence to send me a copy.  Neither was it any wrong to suggest if perhaps you can make the updates easily available for lifetime acccess members.

I made an investment two years ago to join Power University with this understanding that it is lifetime access regardless of the increase in price, and as you promised, once I join, I will get access to all future updates and bonuses no matter how much the price will increase.

I do not at all think it is fair that you have unilaterally revoked my access to the course.  This means that if I want access to the course now, I have to pay many times more what I invested two years ago.

You accused me of asking you to do work, when I did not.  You asked me to send you an email, I explained to you I do not have your direct email.  I clarified myself, and you finally sent the updated version. That's done.

I ask for my course access to be rightfully reinstated, please.

I did not ask for a refund, and think it is highly unreasonable and disappointing that I've been "kicked out" of my access of the course because, of all things, I asked for an updated copy of Ultimate Power which is a part of my package when I joined.

Again, I repeat, I purchased the lifetime access of the course, with the above promises of access to the course forever, as well as access to all future updates and bonuses.

Shan

Lucio,

You have unfairly and unilaterally removed a product I have purchased which was promised to provide lifetime access as well as access to all future updates and bonuses.  It was a straightforward request to provide me an updated version of an e-book which is what is promised by purchasing your lifetime access product.  Providing access to the updates and bonuses is a part of the product package I bought that you promised to provide.  You are not doing me a favour by sending me an updated version of the e-book given you chose to take off the Power University platform - this is fulfilling your responsibilities as a seller and your own word.

You made it convoluted and even accused me of making you "do the work for me to check the version" which I have disproved completely, then suggested I am asking for too much as a customer even when I have provided you my email, and told you I don't have your direct email. While finally providing me an updated version of the e-book, you choose to remove access to the course altogether, on the basis of not wasting your time.  Let's not even get into the condescending attitude you took on trying to tell me I am "debt swapping".  This is an entirely toxic way of dealing with customers.   If you view answering simple customer queries in line with your own rules as wasting your time, as you have suggested, you are failing your responsibilities as a seller. 

If you think you have the right to remove a customer's access to a product, unilaterally think that providing a refund at your whim and fancy of the purchase price from 2 years ago so that if I want to continue my access I am forced to now purchase your product at a much higher price, then stop selling products with this claim of providing lifelong access and updates as you are deceiving customers like me. 

This is the worst online purchase experience I've had amongst thousands, and goes beyond poor customer service.  It is petty and unjustified - I have to jump through hoops just to get an updated version of an e-book, only to have the seller then remove my access to the whole product Power University itself.  Contrary to Lucio's claim that it is very rare for sellers to live up to their promise of providing updates, I have subscribed to other online products with lifelong access that frequently update their content and provide me all access to that content.  Never once has a seller ever suggested I am a waste of their time by asking for something I paid for.

Worst of all, I have no recourse whatsoever.  To all potential buyers, be warned.

Shan

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

To all on this forum and potential buyers of Lucio's products:

This is a public service announcement.

This is the worst online purchase experience I've had amongst thousands, and goes beyond poor customer service.  It is petty and unjustified - I was made to jump through hoops just to get an updated version of an e-book which was part of my original purchase, only to have the seller then remove my access to the whole product Power University itself.  Contrary to Lucio's claim that it is very rare for sellers to live up to their promise of providing updates, I have subscribed to other online products with lifelong access that frequently update their content and provide me all access to that content.  Never once has a seller ever suggested I am a waste of their time by asking for something I paid for.

Please read our exchanges in this thread to understand my claim - I rarely write any poor reviews to give sellers the benefit of the doubt, but there is literally no benefit of the doubt to be given here.

Worst of all, I have no recourse whatsoever.  To all potential buyers, be warned.

Shan

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

To answer the above messages would mean to:

  • Get dragged into an endless back and forth of "you said this, you did that", which is not about finding the truth, but about winning and hurt one another, which leads to:
  • Get dragged into a vicious cycle of nastiness

I'm not interested in that.

Of all the power dynamics that I've studied and observed, the best way to stop vicious circles is to either:

  1. Be the first to break it with an olive branch
  2. Remove yourself for a cool-off period
  3. End it for good

So my answer to Shan is "I'm sorry you feel this way, I think you have some valid reasons to be angry, and I want to thank you for having trusted TPM products with your original purchase".

You don't mention much in terms of the actual quality and practical utility of Power University.
Since you seemed to care about having continued access, I hope that it was at least somewhat useful when you went through it.

To Prospects Interested in Power University

Shan addresses readers here who might be potentially interested in TPM products.

For both clarity and business PR, I need to address that:

  • Access to Power University is a privilege

TPM is not the place for "the customer is always right".

Getting access to this website's products is BOTH a favor you do to me, which is much appreciated, and a favor I do to you.

Both sides of the equation are equally important.

There is a now-old article, but much of those values still hold:

A values-based business.

A Solopreneur’s Approach to Values-Based Business

P.S.: that article needs an update with more examples from TPM. It was an early article and back then I didn't have many TPM examples. But it's impressively prescient and TPM still runs on many of those mindsets and values.

  • Access to Power University is a value exchange that both sides can opt-out

It goes both ways:

If you see no value, you can request a refund.
If you think that the author of PU is an asshole or a clueless idiot who provides no value to you, you are entitled to your opinion and can request a refund.

And the same applies to me:

I can end the relationship if a user becomes value-negative,
If I think that a user is not a good fit for this website's goals and values, not ready for PU, or using the material in nasty ways, I can end the relationship.

  • Shan enjoyed PU access for free

Since this all started with Shan, take Shan as an example.

Shan has been removed from PU after Shan received the update she requested, and a full refund.

That means that Shan has enjoyed PU access, for 2 years, for free.
Plus the ebook can always be accessed at any time in the future. Also for free.

Shan may still despise TPM.
But if we remove the emotional component, Shan lost nothing with TPM and, most likely, gained at least something.

  • 99.x% of purchasers are happy

To make informed decisions it's important not to over-weight the exceptions.

And it's better to focus on the rule instead.

TPM has very low refund requests.
And I can remember very few instances where I initiated a refund/cut-off from my side.

That means that most prospects reading here can safely expect to fall between varying degrees of happiness and delight with PU, see real-life benefits from it, and keep enjoying for as long as they want.

shannifyme, Dre and 3 other users have reacted to this post.
shannifymeDreTinaTransitionedMitch White
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Dear all on the forum and prospects interested in power university:

I am once again compelled to speak up for myself as a customer.  I have not only been wronged by the seller, Lucio, but now, am being blamed for starting this (quote: "Since this all started with Shan").

I implore you to read the facts of the exchange for yourself, rather than take any framing that Lucio has done at face value, such as "a vicious cycle of nastiness" and "since this all started with Shan".

As Lucio is the owner and moderator of this forum with the ability to edit or delete all posts, you may refer to the unadulterated exchange on archive.org here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210827081703/https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/new-book-course-ultimate-power/?part=1 & https://web.archive.org/web/20210827081646/https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/new-book-course-ultimate-power/?part=2

You can then make the judgments for yourself about who is truly nasty and who started this.  As I have pointed out clearly, I made a straightforward request, but was instead met with rudeness, condescending words, false accusations of "making him do work" out of nowhere, reluctance to meet his seller's obligations, implying I as a customer am a waste of his time, and finally unilateral termination of my lifetime access to Power University from Lucio since.

I repeat that I never asked for refund when I have owned the product for two years now, I have only asked for an updated version of an e-book that Lucio promised I would have access to all updates to. Instead, Lucio unilaterally kicked me out of my access to the course, and refunded me my purchase price from years ago which is approximately 1/10th of the current price, then bragged I enjoyed his product for free.  Judge for yourself who is nasty and who started this. 

You would not expect a salesman from a store to come to your home and take without your permission something you had bought and owned for years,  leave the original price of the product at your door, and then brag that he allowed you to use the product "for free" and that you "lost nothing".  Meanwhile, the same salesman has inflated the price of the product 10 times, so that if you want to replace the product he unfairly took back, you will have to pay 10 times.

The same principles apply with an online product which when bought came with the promise to be "yours forever" and "get access to all future updates and bonuses, no matter how much the price will increase". This is exactly the promise that came with Power University that I bought, which was taken so lightly and broken by Lucio.  This is the same promise that is made to you, and the same seller who broke the promise to me.  If a seller promises you that you own a product forever when you buy it, as in this case, the seller does not have the right to take back the product at their whim and fancy years later.

Additionally, thank you for those on this forum who have reached out to me privately to give me their support. I do not expect any of you to support me publicly as you would also fear Lucio doing the same thing to you and removing your access to the product unilaterally, with no good reason whatsoever.

I stand by my public service announcement above fully, and may all readers make sound judgments for themselves.

Shan

Lucio Buffalmano, Ali Scarlett and Growfast have reacted to this post.
Lucio BuffalmanoAli ScarlettGrowfast
12
Processing...