Former Community – We Moved
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Roberto's journal
Hello TPM Community
I have started a new phase in my life since discovering this website and purchasing Power University. However, I became aware of this only with time.
Fast forward until today, I have big social and business changes coming up soon. I am convinced that this will be another chapter in my personal development and I am excited about what is to come. With this journal I want to document past, and hopefully, many future events.
Things I will cover here
- Interactions that are exciting but too short for a whole post
- Power moves
- Social/networking skills
- Strategies I am working on/using
- Psychology
- Frames
- Machiavellianism
- Interesting links or other things that have helped me
- My own development
I wish all of you a successful day!
Looking forward to read you!
Good to see you on this site of the forum Roberto and excited to read your progress, machinations, and wins :).
The other day I went out of the driving range and waved goodbye to the owner.
I am only superficially friendly with him because we once had an argument where I lost all my respect because of his behavior, or so I thought. I consciously noticed for the first time when saying goodbye that I slightly raised my shoulders and lowered my head.
In terms of body language, this behavior is in no way a sign that one has no respect (or fear) for the person opposite.
When I think about it more deeply, it is likely that I subconsciously estimated him as a force to be reckoned with, but consciously convinced myself of the opposite by labeling him as an "idiot".
In the future I will try to pay more attention to my own body language, and not just that of others, to see if what I think and how I behave actually match.
Yeah, I think it's a great point, Roberto.
Sometimes we call or mentally label someone "an idiot" right because we (subconsciously) recognize him as a threat/force to be reckoned with.
And while sometimes that can be useful to avoid being afraid, it's often better to be fully aware of the reality before we use whatever tool available to avoid (mentally) submitting.
I was thinking about why I couldn‘t stand assertiveness from certain people.
Maybe it’s because I've been categorizing people almost only by the status/power/respurces they have. I did this to assess who can give me the things I wanted/needed. Probably related to me scoring high in all 3 areas of the Dark Triad traits.
In this scale, one is either "above", "equal to" or "below" me.
However, my parameters for this evaluation are subjective just like my assessment of the person or reality itself. This logically results in all sorts of problems. It's not a good approach if you want to become a social chameleon, because such a categorization subconsciously influences the behavior you show towards the person. (I definitely need to take a deep look at how I value people)
An example of how fucked up things can get if you go assertive with the wrong people:
(Around 2 years ago)
I made a tasteless joke with a colleague about a fellow student who then heard it from her friend who was sitting behind us.
This girl wrote me on Whatsapp the same day that she wants to talk to me after the lectures.
Something like this happened:
She came to me and said that my words hurt her a lot. She doesn't want jokes like that made about her and if it doesn't stop she'll go to the school board. At the end she touched me on the upper arm and told me that she still hoped everything would be fine between us from now on.
That was it basically.
But I really much held that against her. Actually, I almost freaked out after she left. At the time I thought to myself: Who does this b*tch think she is to talk to me like that? She'll see what she gets out of it!
My attacks became much more frequent and sneaky.
Ultimately, she was one of the few who failed the final exams. When I heard this I was so happy I almost shouted: YES!
I thought: Now you finally got what you deserve HAHA!
*End of the story*
Now to the reason why I considered her below me:
She escaped from a country where civil war was raging a few years ago and therefore she didn't have much money (scholarship).
So I was basically happy that a refugee with little financial resources failed.
The whole thing says a lot more about me than about her and should illustrate how ugly it can get when you talk with the wrong communication style to some people. Espacially narcissists, people who think very very high of themselves and people with a fragile ego can get very nasty if you go assertive on them.
I think it all has to do with the fact that they subconsciously think they are above the person who is assertively speaking to them.
PS: I'm only now realizing, while writing everything down, how crazy I could get back then.
This is awesome insight, Roberto!
Thank you for sharing, and I've seen similar dynamics in life.
Edit: and before becoming more "straight" myself and also appreciating more straight talkers, my reaction would have probably been similar to yours.
The problem with assertiveness is that it can easily turn into a power move.
It can sting and backfire especially when:
- The person you talk to is high-power / power craving
- The assertive is right, and we know it (so they "found us out")
- The assertive acted straight when we usually don't (so, in a way, we resent that they showed themselves for being higher quality)
- We ourselves wouldn't have the guts / skills to do the same (so we resent they "showed us" what's high-power/high-warmth and we resent it)
- The assertive is (we feel) below us (and then it turns into whatever offense we can muster that serves to re-establish our superiority. In this case, "who the f*ck does this third world h** think she's talking to")
That's why more power-protection is often better than less when you're not sure.
That's all the more true when the hierarchy is official, like at work.
And that's why I don't buy for a second the "radical candor" thing. It works mostly for the owners, and rarely for the workers.
Unless you happen to have a super enlightened boss -or a super naive and submissive one, actually-, strategic beats "radical candor" -and the "enlightened bosses are probably around 1%, so good luck with those odds-.
I would surmise that the last point is the most important common denominator of these situations: the assertive person having lower power than the recipient of the assertiveness.
I myself encountered lots of people who waged full war on me after I tried to be assertive.
This led me both to being less assertive in time and learn to retaliate covertly, and to cut people off ruthlessly.
I also never actually "folded" from the conflict. I rather waged it covertly. Sometimes, externally, I was the lowest status guy and fell for all the power moves and the attacks. But internally, even if I was in pain, I always fought mercilessly to win the longer game.
So to me being the person who is unable to face assertiveness from others has no real long-term value.
While the person who gets angry in front of assertiveness can wage war, and even ultimately "win the war" against the "rebel", waging such a war is ultimately a fruitless and time-consuming conflict.
And the lower status person can do damage just as much as the highest status person can: just in other ways.
Also: sometimes the lower status person can improve and later become higher status. And guess what I'm going to do now, if I encounter again one of those people who waged war on me when I was "below them".
So to me being able to be assertive and to face assertiveness straightly is always the better stance.
Does not mean of course that "doing assertiveness" is always the right choice: I concur with you that many times, as we discussed, it's better to not do assertiveness.
And, from what I studied on TPM, ex post facto assertiveness is almost always best avoided. Either one goes assertive in the moment, in front of everyone, or does nothing.
Going assertive after the fact and in private, only subconsciously reinforces a "weakness/lower power" stance.
Agree with everything, Bel.
Being able to be assertive and to face assertiveness is a crucial step of self-development.
But on this I'd add a note:
Quote from Bel on September 5, 2023, 10:54 amI would surmise that the last point is the most important common denominator of these situations: the assertive person having lower power than the recipient of the assertiveness.
I wouldn't underestimate how easily and frequently you can turn a narcissist, a fragile ego, or a sneaky/passive-aggressive person against you with assertiveness.
That's why, the way I see it, assertiveness goes with the general principle of "straight behavior": you better reserve it for those who deserve it.
Start of the second week in my "new" life. Very much to do. Not everything is work. It's also about connecting and settling in.
I feel so much freer since I no longer live with my parents. It has really been a stressful situation for me (and them) the last few years.
Maybe in a few months I'll be able to revisit the experience with a little more distance and from a different perspective.
Hope you are all healthy and well!
See you soon :)
