Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 28, 2022, 11:45 am

Thank you for the note and new thread idea, Ali!

Of course, as you say, you know we're all good -and also were so before :)-.

Quote from Mats G on January 5, 2023, 11:14 am

I want to apologize to @lucio for my post here.

Although you took it very well there were parts of my post that, upon re-reading, didn't feel cool from my side.

While they were unintentional I still want to address and apologize for these:

1. Too much use of the judge frame. (For example the excessive use of the word "fair"). 
2. I only briefly mention the 95% of your post I thought was good but spend a lot of time on the 5% I thought could be improved.
3. I should have been more power protecting throughout.
4. Poor word choice:

Quote from Mats G on January 4, 2023, 4:41 pm

That's definitely not win-win behavior in the slightest -and not really that subjective, either. It's part of "power hoarding". Maybe you wanna say you didn't know because it's not on Wikipedia?-.

(The bold is mine). The first sentence here is fair and to the point, but the second sentence seems unnecessary and gives a feeling of bitterness. As I read it, it doesn't seem to add any real value to the post, but does run the risk of worsening the relationship.

By starting out my sentence with a judge frame, the rest of the sentence becomes disempowering. Also the word "bitterness" indirectly paints you in a negative way. This was not my intention, but it was still wrong.

 

Interesting you only remember now to react to it.

(Bold is mine). The "Interesting you only remember now to react to it" feels personal and even a bit sneaky (very little though). Again, on its own I would hardly think anything of it, but coupled with the other examples it makes the overall tone feel strong and personal.

This was a poor formulation and makes it seem as if I think you're sneaky, which I certainly don't. Sneaky wasn't a good word to begin with but I didn't come up with a different one. The whole sentence was poorly formulated though.

 

More thoughts on a strong tone

In PU we learn that a strong tone is often useful to check a strong tone. I think that's perfectly fine.

Slight judge frame again. I struggle a lot with these unfortunately.

 

Writing this I also see just how difficult it is to give feedback in a way that isn't disrespectful. I hope I succeeded, otherwise if anybody sees something in this (or any of my other posts) that isn't cool please call it out, even if it's minor.

Although it was meant sincerely, this comes across as a covert way to avoid taking responsibility for any mistakes I make in the post. (The frame becomes "it's not my own responsibility to communicate respectfully, and unless I'm called out I'll continue").

For all of these things above:

Lucio, I'm sorry man.

 

*Off topic*

After reading Kavalier's post as well as your own I agree that the tone was justified. I decided not to edit my post though because that was my initial reaction to the exchange and could potentially have some useful feedback.

*Off topic*

 

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 5, 2023, 2:54 pm

Thank you for saying that, Mats!

And I can wholeheartedly guarantee you that I was happy to read your feedback, that it was very helpful, that it was very well-written, well-received, and that I thought as well of you after the feedback than before -if not more-.

I personally thought that a few passages may have been slightly more on the left side of the "naive-cynic scale", but besides the obvious fact that I may have been wrong, it was also very useful to see how someone who may have not been involved the whole thing would take it.

And, finally, you did raise great points.

Quote from John Freeman on August 1, 2023, 12:43 pm

Hello Lucio,

@lucio:I know a clarification is under way and I don’t want to scramble the communication so I write here. I want to apologize for this:

Quote from John Freeman on July 31, 2023, 8:26 pm

A feed-back I haven't given yet.

Here it could feel like credit inflating since using the “given” emphasizing that one is giving something. It’s up to the other person to express if there is value or not. So it’s maybe slightly disempowering (not 100% sure since I chose this formulation because of language pushes me in this direction even after reflection: we “give” a feed-back. We don’t “do” a feed-back.). So a more neutral way would have been: “I would like to add something” even if it does totally express my thought: “something I thought about that I haven’t expressed yet” I could also have used this one.

Like Power Duck I need definitions to understand well a concept. For instance the difference between "power", "dominance", "social dominance" and "aggression" can be hard to grasp. Same with the difference between "high quality" and "high value".

These concepts are way more clear to me now. I understood them better through the forum mostly. I could not say about PU as I don't recall if you give definitions of them. It was after the first pass a couple years ago now. What I'm saying is that there are probably other learners like us.

I hope it's useful to you.

Here with the last sentence my intention was to power protect in the sense that “it’s up to you if this has value or not”. Again maybe this phrasing would have been better.

Here it could come across again as credit inflating: like nudging the other person in acknowledging the credit. As said it was not my intention. Here I thought that if I did not put any conclusion the message was a bit “dry” and curt. I did not want that. I wanted to end the message with an open hand.

I think in the end both on their own would have been ok. But 2 in a same message start to smell “credit inflating” a bit too much.

I thought about how to improve it but did not come up with better sentences. Today I wanted to tell you that.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 1, 2023, 7:41 pm

All good John, I think the original thread was pretty clear that it was about adding value.

Quote from John Freeman on August 1, 2023, 7:43 pm

Alright, cool then.

Quote from John Freeman on December 1, 2023, 7:31 am

Hello @kavalier,

my apologies for the tone of my answer in this post. I think your feed-back was great and I was a bit defensive. I’m not happy with the way I answered. So you know about the reasons of my reactions: I’ve been disrespected so many times and felt like sometimes people were intrusive I’m now very protective with things like: my right to answer or not (learned it recently), my right to share my thoughts or not, my right to share what info with whom, my right to privacy, etc. That’s probably the reason of what I feel was a strong reaction on my side. It’s probably still a sensitive topic to me as I could notice.

To be clear: this post is because I feel I did not do right by you and I respect and like you a lot. So this is largely due.

There was definitely some ego on my side even though I did my best not to. I think I could have let more time pass before answering in order to answer as objectively as possible.

Thank you again for taking the time and your thoughtful answer.

Quote from Kavalier on December 1, 2023, 6:21 pm

Hello, John!

All is good, man! And while you didn't need to apologize, as I didn't feel you've done anything wrong, I thank you for your gesture. Most people I've encountered in life tend to do the opposite – to withhold apologies when they believe they've done wrong. The Power Moves taught me to recognize in disposition to apologize and clarify things a sign of high value. I also like and respect you a lot, John, and things like this make me like and respect you even more!

Quote from John Freeman on December 1, 2023, 7:50 pm

Hello Kavalier,

I feel humbled and honoured, thank you!