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To dominate or not to dominate after she points it out?

To lead or not to lead?

To dominate or not to dominate?

To answer or not to answer?

TPM taught me to take the leadership and the dominating position in a heterosexuals' relationship. Here comes the question: what shall I do if she mirror my behavior?

For example, TPM suggests that, if I remember correctly:

Answer the question only in the way you want to answer it.

Many dating coaches, for example swinggcat and Xuma, suggests a similar pattern: you should  avoid answering women' question directly; you can answer questions with questions.

Here is a conversation with a gal that I date:

Me: What are you doing right now?

She: I won't tell you. Take a guess.

Me: Pardon me?

She: I am just copying your style, Lucius. More than once you've answered my question with anther question. Do you feel frustrated when I am not directly answering your question? (sincere tone)

This gal is super cooperative and supportive otherwise in other aspects of my life. I don't know if I need to adjust my behavior or not.

Also, here are some lines by my previous exes or gals in date:

HB1: Don't take the judge role as I don't judge you.

HB2: You cannot always take the leadership role. We need to share the leadership.

HB3: You cannot always be dominating.

Specifically, HB1 is using a mirror frame control technique introduced in the TPM article, 10 Frame Control Techniques to Out-Frame Anyone | The Power Moves:

Him: Am I asking you to remove any piece of clothing of yours? No, right? So stop pushing me because you’re acting like a real bully (mirror frame control technique)

I've tried to convince the gals that a male-dominating relationship is healthier; however, they found many scientific articles that an egalitarian relationship is the happiest, e.g. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0265407516677060; https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1983-25534-001

and many others.

My question is, how should I explain this inequality in power and leadership to the gals who pointed out this inequality?

 

 

Hey Lucius,

A quick feedback from a few comments of yours I've seen and that I didn't have time to reply: it seems to me like you're applying some techniques or "rules" out of context.

Unluckily, there are very few rules and techniques that apply all the time -or never-.

It's contextual, and good calibration requires the "feel" for social and power dynamics.

In this case, it sounds like you're in the "dickhead" phase with these women, which is when you're being overly dominant -the negative side of dominance, for which those studies likely apply-.
Check out the stickied post on the "power dynamics" forum for what I mean by the "feel" -or the recent article on Power Intelligence-.

Getting rational about why it's better if you dominate is also, in general, a rather bad idea.
You don't explain that, and least of all you convince.
You do it, and ideally you do in a collaborative fashion that makes them happy to be with such a strong and value-adding leader. And trust, when adn if the issue comes up it will be along the lines that they like how "mannish", or how "leaderlike" or how "confident" or how "decisive / clever" you are. Most of the times, they can't really put a name on it, but when they something along those lines, you're doing it well.

It definitely piqued my interest though that your dates / regulars come up with citations and studies :D. Damn man, I also wanna meet some gals like that! 🙂

P.S.:
"HB" makes you come across like a PUA from the 90s who's just finished "The Game" -and that's generally low-ish value-. I'd definitely drop it.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Just one cent on PUA. Well, of course you could say that the PUAs are usually low-value male and the PUA techniques sometimes stem from a low-value mindset. However, I would like to point out that there are also many PUA techniques that are very similar to those taught in TPM, which you won't call them "low value"

Even if you conclude that "all PUA techniques" are low value, you cannot say that an acronym (HB) is of low value. I in fact truly appreciate those PUAs. Back in high school, I had a really good time with the first gal that I dated, until the moment I chose to abandon all PUA techniques and treat her like a nice guy. My appreciation wouldn't be diminished even if PUAs are harshly attacked by feminists and the mainstream society world-wide. By the same logics, if one day TPM is shut up by feminists and the mainstream in the world, just like what they did to redpill or PUA, I will still be on your side.

Anyways, an acronym does not matter that much.

I actually agree with almost every part of your post, Lucio. So here is my main understanding of your post:

A true leader does not need others to verbally call him "the leader". 

I need to show that my leadership works, rather than convince them that my leadership works.

I need to subtly lead the relationship in a collaborative fashion that makes every happy, without being too obvious that I am dominating or being the leader (?)

Am I correct on those understandings?

This recalls me my last EX, who seems always supportive: she verbally assumes the submissive role and respect my dominant, leader role. However, she was trying hard to make everything happen as she wishes; that is, she is trying to take the actual leadership.


It definitely piqued my interest though that your dates / regulars come up with citations and studies :D. Damn man, I also wanna meet some gals like that! 🙂

To meet those gals are easy for you I guess. You can simply date your classmates, if one of them happen to be hot, Lucio.

I actually shared some of the TPM articles with the gals, that is why we had some somewhat deep discussion on leadership or dominance. Weird enough, I did not share anything with the "judge" gal (HB1); though one day she suddenly asked me to stop judging.

HB1: Don't take the judge role as I don't judge you.

Me: Elaborate? Seems like you are having a bad day with your friends.

HB1: Grown-ups shall not judge.

Me: This is your baby

HB1: Mankind shall not judge.

She was firmly holding her frame and I gradually lost my leadership since then. A few days later she is dead in my phone.

In my first example, she finally agree that I should be the leader, well, reluctantly. And now, after learning your post and article, I think this "agreement" will not work at all.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

OFF-TOPIC

Selffriend,

You didn't get what I meant at all, and created a total strawman, which happened to frame me very negatively -or, alternatively, I didn't make myself clear at all-.

It frames me -or this website- as if I were on the mainstream side, or supporting "nice guys".
Please don't put those words in my mouth.

I didn't say "PUA", I purposefully said "90s PUA who's just done reading The Game".
So I wasn't referring to general "seduction strategies and techniques", which are obviously valid and an important part of this website, but I was specifically referring to the origins of PUA, when terms like "HB" were popular -you don't read "HB" much these days anymore, or at least I haven't seen it much from any of the good contemporary authors-.

Since then the industry/movement has much progressed, leaving those early days approaches in the dust.
But when you use old acronyms, you associate yourself with early days movement, when the movement wasn't well-developed. It gives off a "geek" and an "old school, non-up-to-date" vibe.

To make a digital comparison, it would be like a guy talking about computers and referring to his laptop as "mainframe".

That's my personal take of course, you feel free to use whichever acronym you prefer.

OFF-TOPIC

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Selffriend: Weird enough, I did not share anything with the "judge" gal (HB1); though one day she suddenly asked me to stop judging.

Funny enough, she sounded like the most power-aware of them all.
Maybe she had randomly stumbled on the judge article by herself? Since then, I've heard the term "the judge" used by some other people talking about social dynamics, so might have used the term not by complete accident.

But it's hard to say, maybe it was just a pure accident and she simply had a good, natural intuition.

selffriend has reacted to this post.
selffriend
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 8, 2021, 6:17 am

OFF-TOPIC

Selffriend,

You didn't get what I meant at all, and created a total strawman, which happened to frame me very negatively -or, alternatively, I didn't make myself clear at all-.

It frames me -or this website- as if I were on the mainstream side, or supporting "nice guys".
Please don't put those words in my mouth.

I didn't say "PUA", I purposefully said "90s PUA who's just done reading The Game".
So I wasn't referring to general "seduction strategies and techniques", which are obviously valid and an important part of this website, but I was specifically referring to the origins of PUA, when terms like "HB" were popular -you don't read "HB" much these days anymore, or at least I haven't seen it much from any of the good contemporary authors-.

Since then the industry/movement has much progressed, leaving those early days approaches in the dust.
But when you use old acronyms, you associate yourself with early days movement, when the movement wasn't well-developed. It gives off a "geek" and an "old school, non-up-to-date" vibe.

To make a digital comparison, it would be like a guy talking about computers and referring to his laptop as "mainframe".

That's my personal take of course, you feel free to use whichever acronym you prefer.

OFF-TOPIC

OFF-TOPIC

Hi Lucio I am so sorry that my comment confused you. From this recent reply, you seems don't want to stay on the side of mainstream. I agree with it, as I said:

If one day TPM is shut up by feminists and the mainstream in the world, just like what they did to redpill or PUA, I will still be on your side.

By the way, I don't think there are material difference between 90s PUA and the recent PUA. For virtually everything taught by nowadays PUA, you could find a root in early PUA. I personally don't think the recent PUAs have a lot of innovations.

Well, of course, a lot of materials taught in TPM is not mentioned in early PUA. At the end of the day, TPM is not a genre of PUA. TPM is a higher level of thinking and a higher level of knowledge, which mean to sustain a healthy, long term relationships in a group of people.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on April 8, 2021, 6:20 am

Selffriend: Weird enough, I did not share anything with the "judge" gal (HB1); though one day she suddenly asked me to stop judging.

Funny enough, she sounded like the most power-aware of them all.
Maybe she had randomly stumbled on the judge article by herself? Since then, I've heard the term "the judge" used by some other people talking about social dynamics, so might have used the term not by complete accident.

But it's hard to say, maybe it was just a pure accident and she simply had a good, natural intuition.

Truly  appreciate your comment! She might be a Christian (10% chance). I can try to ask her if she knows TPM but mentioning texts exchanged a long time ago might tell her that:

  1. I really cared about her comment such that I don't have an anti-fragile ego
  2. I remember her texts for so long such that I care her too much

I'll try to ask her anyway next time she calls me out (if this will happen).