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Why are these traits of a low value man?

#1 · August 29, 2020, 4:36 am

The article "8 Signs of Low Value Men" is packed with lots of great information. I recommend it highly.

However, I need help understanding why the following characteristics / traits are sings of a low value man:

Make as much money as possible: I do not understand why this is a trait of a low value man at all. Millions of men AND WOMEN want to make as much money as possible. For openers, every man in the business world wants to make as much money as possible. I can understand why lying/cheating/stealing is extremely low value. But what is wrong with wanting to make as much money as possible legitimately?
Sleep with as many women as possible: What is wrong with a man who wants to sleep with as many women as possible as long as he is a gentleman who behaves responsibility, always respects women, and only seeks relationships that are completely consensual?
Provide for a low-value woman: I can understand how providing for a low value woman just to get sex in return is low value. No arguments here.
Do or collect quirky stuff most people don’t care about (ant farming, stamps, etc.) What's wrong with collecting stamps if it makes you happy? The only way I can see this as being low value is if you talk about it at length to people who have no interest in said topic during dates, social gatherings etc.

Input please.

#2 · August 29, 2020, 5:36 am

Quote from Stef on August 29, 2020, 5:36 am
"Make as much money as possible: I do not understand why this is a trait of a low value man at all. Millions of men AND WOMEN want to make as much money as possible. For openers, every man in the business world wants to make as much money as possible. I can understand why lying/cheating/stealing is extremely low value. But what is wrong with wanting to make as much money as possible legitimately?
Sleep with as many women as possible: What is wrong with a man who wants to sleep with as many women as possible as long as he is a gentleman who behaves responsibility, always respects women, and only seeks relationships that are completely consensual?
Those 2, they strike me as in many cases they can be a sign of searching for validation through numbers (high bank account, high partner count). In cases when the person do this to fill a void, it may be a sign of low value or low self-stem. Also many supposedly more "profound" people are supposed to be have at least some interest ( intellectual pursuits, art, spiritual) that would be much more important for them than money by the sake of money, or pussy by the sake of pussy.
thats the line of reasoning I think Lucio may be following there.
You can argue that there may be some level of bias, as if the author of those arguments do not value too highly money or promiscuity, but at the end it would turn on a questions of what the ultimate purpose of life is supposed to be, and as I am agnostic about it, at most I can apply the philosophy know as "As if" for those ultimate questions.
My version of that philosophy is that sometimes we act "as if" we were sure some things are in a way that we are not really sure they are.
"Philosophy of as if, the system espoused by Hans Vaihinger in his major philosophical work Die Philosophie des Als Ob (1911; The Philosophy of “As If”), which proposed that man willingly accept falsehoods or fictions in order to live peacefully in an irrational world. Vaihinger, who saw life as a maze of contradictions and philosophy as a search for means to make life livable, began by accepting Immanuel Kant’s view that knowledge is limited to phenomena and cannot reach to things-in-themselves. In order to survive, man must use his will to construct fictional explanations of phenomena “as if ” there were rational grounds for believing that such a method reflects reality. Logical contradictions were simply disregarded."

"Make as much money as possible: I do not understand why this is a trait of a low value man at all. Millions of men AND WOMEN want to make as much money as possible. For openers, every man in the business world wants to make as much money as possible. I can understand why lying/cheating/stealing is extremely low value. But what is wrong with wanting to make as much money as possible legitimately?
Sleep with as many women as possible: What is wrong with a man who wants to sleep with as many women as possible as long as he is a gentleman who behaves responsibility, always respects women, and only seeks relationships that are completely consensual?

Those 2, they strike me as in many cases they can be a sign of searching for validation through numbers (high bank account, high partner count). In cases when the person do this to fill a void, it may be a sign of low value or low self-stem. Also many supposedly more "profound" people are supposed to be have at least some interest ( intellectual pursuits, art, spiritual) that would be much more important for them than money by the sake of money, or pussy by the sake of pussy.

thats the line of reasoning I think Lucio may be following there.

You can argue that there may be some level of bias, as if the author of those arguments do not value too highly money or promiscuity, but at the end it would turn on a questions of what the ultimate purpose of life is supposed to be, and as I am agnostic about it, at most I can apply the philosophy know as "As if" for those ultimate questions.

My version of that philosophy is that sometimes we act "as if" we were sure some things are in a way that we are not really sure they are.

"Philosophy of as if, the system espoused by Hans Vaihinger in his major philosophical work Die Philosophie des Als Ob (1911; The Philosophy of “As If”), which proposed that man willingly accept falsehoods or fictions in order to live peacefully in an irrational world. Vaihinger, who saw life as a maze of contradictions and philosophy as a search for means to make life livable, began by accepting Immanuel Kant’s view that knowledge is limited to phenomena and cannot reach to things-in-themselves. In order to survive, man must use his will to construct fictional explanations of phenomena “as if ” there were rational grounds for believing that such a method reflects reality. Logical contradictions were simply disregarded."

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#3 · August 29, 2020, 6:53 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 29, 2020, 6:53 am
A quick preface:
That's part of 4-series articles that, in the beginning, I intended as a mix of "self-development info" and "thought-provoking list" of what makes men and women high or low value.
But they have become some of the most popular articles on the website, as well as being near the top of Google search's result when you look for "high/low value men/women", so I feel an obligation now to make them deeper, more comprehensive, and more thought-through.
That will come soon enough.
That being said, much of the information is still solid, and yes, Stef got it right.
On the limits of being a one-trick pony
First of all, being generally driven is a high-value trait.
The issue I'm referring to is that being highly driven for one thing only makes you fall short of your overall potential, since there are a few basics in life where you should at least reach a threshold minimum level.
Plus, what it means is that if all you do in your life is that one thing, be it chasing money or pussy, or whatever else, you lack also lack some depth.
Chasing money only
To be precise, and this is what I should have been more careful about, people who chase money all their life and do get it, are not low value.
The simple fact of having lots of money gives them lots of value.
But they are still probably far from the highest value they could have.
They have the drive and they achieved the results to be high-value, but if they lack personal depth becuase all they've done is that one thing, then they're falling short of their maximum potential.
How are these guys going to be in their relationships if they haven't learned power dynamics and some basics of female psychology? They are more likely to be manipulated and controlled, as well as more likely to have poor relationships and unhappy partners.
And what kind of fathers are they going to be, if they are haven't learned about their biological self (see John's thread on this one) and some basic child psychology and they push their children to be just like they are? That can be very abusive for children who have different dispositions than their fathers.
If they had gone just 80% on the money thing, and 20% on all this other basic stuff, they'd probably be far higher overall value.
Etc. etc.
Chasing pussy only
Same for people who spend their life collecting sexual partners.
If they do so not because of their position, but because they got good at getting women, then they might also be quite high-value folks -albeit not as high as the rich guys, probably-.
They learned psychology and "game", and they can teach and help others. And some women they get along with, might also fall for them and, hence, consider them high value -albeit if all they've done is picking up chicks, then that love will likely dissipate over the course of a long-term relationship-.
On the inherent fragility of getting validation from just one thing
The second issue is the one Stef mentioned.
If all you do is that thing and you get all your validation from that, then you are inherently fragile.
It's already fragile to base your self-esteem on your general life results, but it's so much more so if your self-esteem comes 80% from just one thing.
In investment and asset allocation that's over-exposure. And the moment your only source of validation and self-esteem disappears, then... You crumble.
Makes a bit more sense now?
On collecting / chasing / being a buff of quirky stuff
I can expect -and understand- people to be upset about that bullet point.
The issue of spending hours and hours of your time on stuff that nobody cares about is that it's an opportunity loss.
You invest in things that add no value to the world, or the people around you.
To make an example:
If your hobby is collecting cars, that makes you more valuable to a lot of guys, who now hope that you might take them on one of your Ferraris. And of course, it tells women that you are rich, and now many of them will also interested in that type of value.
But if your hobby is collecting car magazines, well... You see where I'm going. Guys will think "oh, weird/interesting", but you provide no real value and you get not personal uplift in your social standing. And women will just think you're a bit of a weirdo with whom they can't really connect -and some will think you're a loser-.
Even if you don't talk about it, you still plowed so much of your time on an activity that adds no value to the world, and that makes you no more valuable to anyone. It's an opportunity cost.
Makes sense now?

A quick preface:

That's part of 4-series articles that, in the beginning, I intended as a mix of "self-development info" and "thought-provoking list" of what makes men and women high or low value.
But they have become some of the most popular articles on the website, as well as being near the top of Google search's result when you look for "high/low value men/women", so I feel an obligation now to make them deeper, more comprehensive, and more thought-through.

That will come soon enough.

That being said, much of the information is still solid, and yes, Stef got it right.

On the limits of being a one-trick pony

First of all, being generally driven is a high-value trait.

The issue I'm referring to is that being highly driven for one thing only makes you fall short of your overall potential, since there are a few basics in life where you should at least reach a threshold minimum level.

Plus, what it means is that if all you do in your life is that one thing, be it chasing money or pussy, or whatever else, you lack also lack some depth.

Chasing money only

To be precise, and this is what I should have been more careful about, people who chase money all their life and do get it, are not low value.

The simple fact of having lots of money gives them lots of value.
But they are still probably far from the highest value they could have.

They have the drive and they achieved the results to be high-value, but if they lack personal depth becuase all they've done is that one thing, then they're falling short of their maximum potential.

How are these guys going to be in their relationships if they haven't learned power dynamics and some basics of female psychology? They are more likely to be manipulated and controlled, as well as more likely to have poor relationships and unhappy partners.

And what kind of fathers are they going to be, if they are haven't learned about their biological self (see John's thread on this one) and some basic child psychology and they push their children to be just like they are? That can be very abusive for children who have different dispositions than their fathers.

If they had gone just 80% on the money thing, and 20% on all this other basic stuff, they'd probably be far higher overall value.

Etc. etc.

Chasing pussy only

Same for people who spend their life collecting sexual partners.

If they do so not because of their position, but because they got good at getting women, then they might also be quite high-value folks -albeit not as high as the rich guys, probably-.

They learned psychology and "game", and they can teach and help others. And some women they get along with, might also fall for them and, hence, consider them high value -albeit if all they've done is picking up chicks, then that love will likely dissipate over the course of a long-term relationship-.

On the inherent fragility of getting validation from just one thing

The second issue is the one Stef mentioned.

If all you do is that thing and you get all your validation from that, then you are inherently fragile.

It's already fragile to base your self-esteem on your general life results, but it's so much more so if your self-esteem comes 80% from just one thing.
In investment and asset allocation that's over-exposure. And the moment your only source of validation and self-esteem disappears, then... You crumble.

Makes a bit more sense now?

On collecting / chasing / being a buff of quirky stuff

I can expect -and understand- people to be upset about that bullet point.

The issue of spending hours and hours of your time on stuff that nobody cares about is that it's an opportunity loss.

You invest in things that add no value to the world, or the people around you.

To make an example:

If your hobby is collecting cars, that makes you more valuable to a lot of guys, who now hope that you might take them on one of your Ferraris. And of course, it tells women that you are rich, and now many of them will also interested in that type of value.

But if your hobby is collecting car magazines, well... You see where I'm going. Guys will think "oh, weird/interesting", but you provide no real value and you get not personal uplift in your social standing. And women will just think you're a bit of a weirdo with whom they can't really connect -and some will think you're a loser-.

Even if you don't talk about it, you still plowed so much of your time on an activity that adds no value to the world, and that makes you no more valuable to anyone. It's an opportunity cost.

Makes sense now?

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#4 · August 29, 2020, 7:20 am

Yes, it all makes a lot more sense now. Thank you for the clarification.

I do have a follow up question. Your write:

"That's part of 4-series articles that, in the beginning, I intended as a mix of "self-development info" and "thought-provoking list" of what makes men and women high or low value."

Please tell me how I can find the entire 4 part series.

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#5 · August 29, 2020, 7:30 am

Quote from EdnBr on August 29, 2020, 7:20 am
Yes, it all makes a lot more sense now. Thank you for the clarification.
I do have a follow up question. Your write:
Please tell me how I can find the entire 4 part series.

Great.

The corresponding articles are:

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