Bel's thoughts

Quote from John Freeman on September 15, 2022, 8:33 pm

What Lucio said! You get real life feed-back on your new behaviours. Taking off.

"imaginary generosity"-.

That's one of my favourite concepts as I find it so funny: "Hey all forum members, when I'll be a billionaire I'll give you one million each, I swear! Don't thank me, it's natural. I'm just a giver, that's who I am."

Quote from Bel on September 15, 2022, 9:14 pm

My former boss was a master of future faking or imaginary generosity.

Constantly moved the goalposts, constantly pointed out the intangible benefits ("you are learning, this is the invaluable thing, next year things will be better", and so on).

Of course nothing was better apart from my working more and more.

At the end, after I went away, he called me back and proposed me he would make me partner within a year if I returned.

My thinking at that point was a mixture between laughter and repulsion.

Quote from John Freeman on September 15, 2022, 9:46 pm

That's the real life common imaginary generosity in work environment. In my hospital it's: "if you do this training, this training and this doctorate (totals to years of work), you'll be an executive physician (high status high earning position where you are basically a sophisticated high earner high status slave)"

You go to Canada for 2 years, you do a Ph.D., you come back and they say: "Sorry, while you were doing all of this, we gave the job to this guy". Basically you come back and the promise is gone.

There is another version: "Sorry, we gave the job to this guy with a better CV". They're improving their options, not yours. They're saying this to a bunch of people and take the person which they want the best. They say the promise to like 10 people or more.

It's all over the institution, it's not even funny. This goes more into the "empty promise" category though after thinking about it.

Quote from Bel on September 16, 2022, 1:01 am

Here's something that happened to me years ago that only now I understand.

I was making a lecture at a company (my first significant client) about interactions with health care professionals from a legal point of view. When my lecture was over, another lawyer who attended the lecture, who was a member of a vigilance body in the company, came on stage, took the microphone and started speaking after me to this tune:

Him: Exactly! These things are important! You employees need to do this! And by the way it is also important to [proceeds to basically restate and summarize what I had said].

I stood alongside him and didn't understand the power dynamics.

He was basically destroying my posture and credibility (that I had built so hardly by preparing for that lecture for weeks) by using the "have the last word" technique.

I remember he was a lawyer of a multinational law firm, who previously used to do for the company the same work that I had started doing. It makes sense now.

It's just incredible that I was still called to do further work by the company after this event. They gave me only work that didn't have an adversarial/litigation nature though, and now I understand why.

I remember the person who had introduced me to the company (who was also present) told me after the fact:

My friend: Bel, weren't you upset that this guy who nobody knew went on stage and made that speech after your lecture?

Me: No, why should I?

Later when I would try to phone my friend, more and more he became evasive and didn't answer my phone calls. I didn't understand why. I started being annoyed at his behavior and the relationship basically disintegrated.

What happened was that he probably basically lost respect for me right there at that moment. My cluelessness was the proverbial nail in the coffin.

I think basically almost everyone in my life thought I was some kind of fool and that I could be used. Or given the crumbs.

I think if this all happened today, I would look at the speaking underminer guy and say something like:

Me: No no go ahead, it is very useful to have what I said so eloquently summarized. In fact I am going to sit in the audience and take notes of your eloquence. [smile]

On a related note, I am starting to see an improvement in my emotional state when I understand these past things: the sadness I used to feel when I realized things like this is not significant anymore.

I am starting to be more annoyed (at what these people did on purpose to undermine me) than sad now. Can't really write what I am thinking of all these people.

Quote from Kavalier on September 16, 2022, 1:55 am

Hey, Bel!

It's great that we can look at the past and recognize situations where people took advantage of our good nature, and think it over and come up with better answers. I've been in so many situations like this that I can't even count.

I'd suggest a different take here. After he finishes his speech, there is an opportunity for taking the judge role and framing him as doing a service for everyone:

Thank you very much (now it's the thank you power move), X [if you didn't know his name, you could have asked].

[Then addressing the audience again]

Our friend X here made some very interesting observations (framing him as being a good student) about X, Y, Z. In fact... (make some brief evaluating comments about his observations, then bridge to your own summation).

My opinion is that the part on sitting in the audience and taking notes is too confrontational for the situation.

I also usually prefer to avoid constructions like like "as I said", "as I was saying", because they might look defensive depending on the context. I think that to "good job" him and reinstate what you said in different words sounds smoother.

Quote from Bel on September 16, 2022, 3:25 am

Thank you Kavalier!

Your suggestion makes much more sense than my belligerent approach.

I’m thinking about my other client who stopped answering me that I described some posts above, where I recounted that I had basically progressed with him from working for free to being paid.

I think I’ll do the opposite of what I should nominally do in the presence of his silence, and send him an email whereby I will waive all my fees on my latest work.

It’s possible my limited success with clients so far has derived from my not recognizing that there is a moment of trust where I should go along with the unstated request of the client to see if I am on his side. It’s possible he is waiting to see if I am on his side or on mine, so to speak.

I don’t know how to put it better, but if I am mistaken I’ll chalk it up as an economic loss and learning. If I am right, it might save the professional relationship.

I’ll think about how to phrase it and communicate it to him.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on September 17, 2022, 6:18 pm

Hey Bel, I gotta you're really sharing a ton of insights as you revisit and share past events, with your current awareness -thank you for that-.

I think you already have a great read on that situation, and anything you did would have been a huge step foward.

I agree with Kavalier's solution.

Also, think about leverage and power: the power is on that stage.

When you go sit, you relinquish that power and self-demote yourself to an audience member -those who listen, instead of teaching-.
What is he going to say next on that stage once you leave?
Who knows, but he stays there. And you can't handle it with nearly enough effectiveness because you're mostly defanged away from that stage.

Of course, since he was being an asshole, it's also very possible that he could destroy himself while standing there.

But albeit that's a good approach with cockblockers in dating, the dynamics are slightly different and there are many women aorund.
There, there is only opportunity, so it's not a risk I'd take.

I'd rather be an active participant and stay on the podium: even if you're only collecting your thoughts, you're still in the spotlight and whatever you do next is higher leverage.

Quote from Bel on September 18, 2022, 4:30 pm

Thank you so much, Lucio.

I read your post and it is very helpful, having the dynamics explained so clearly is incredibly incredibly useful.

Quote from Bel on September 18, 2022, 11:00 pm

Quote from Bel on September 16, 2022, 3:25 am

I’m thinking about my other client who stopped answering me that I described some posts above, where I recounted that I had basically progressed with him from working for free to being paid.

I think I’ll do the opposite of what I should nominally do in the presence of his silence, and send him an email whereby I will waive all my fees on my latest work.

It’s possible my limited success with clients so far has derived from my not recognizing that there is a moment of trust where I should go along with the unstated request of the client to see if I am on his side. It’s possible he is waiting to see if I am on his side or on mine, so to speak.

I don’t know how to put it better, but if I am mistaken I’ll chalk it up as an economic loss and learning. If I am right, it might save the professional relationship.

I’ll think about how to phrase it and communicate it to him.

I have prepared an email I will send shortly:

Dear Mr. …,

nothing is due for the work specified in my email here below and the attached timesheet.

Sending you my kind regards,

Bel

Rationale:

however I want to put it here, I need to make a decision.

Either I force being paid in the face of the client going silent, and likely lose the client for good, or I communicate, however late, that my relationship with the client is more important than me being paid.

Yes, my client did not speak clearly.

Yes, had he done so I would have come toward him.

Yes, I have done the work and deserve to get paid.

But, I don’t want to do work and then get paid by clients who are not happy.

I want first and foremost a good relationship.

I want to be respected and to respect my clients. That matters more than being paid or not.

One thing I am starting to understand: one can be higher power in conceding, and lower power in taking.

In other words, being higher power does not mean you never go along with the other person, even if you are right and the other person is wrong.

And another thing: some people don’t want to speak clearly, and subcommunicate things implicitly. Being a good consultant probably means being attuned to different styles and accepting how explicit the client wants to be.

In any case let’s see what happens. It’s very probable the client is lost anyway. I must have done something very offensive to him.

But at least I’ll exit with knowing I did my best to keep the professional relationship, even if I only realized it late.