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Bel's thoughts

#501 · February 28, 2023, 4:41 am

Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:34 am
It was online, on the Gofundme website - which I now discovered is used precisely for these kinds of things.
He then spread the webpage around via Whatsapp to his contacts.
I find it incredible he raised money with this, although I now understand his success derives mainly from the contacts he has developed in real life with people, and less on the actual "request".
I also would never personally make an "emergency funding request" for anything. I find it manipulative to ask for "contribution" to "be able to buy back something I lost".
He could just continue doing his work and then buy back one when he can.
Assuming there is a legitimate use for these kinds of requests, I also think these have a "limited maximum number" in one's life. He used one. If he starts doing this regularly, people are going to stop being responsive. So why use an "emergency funding request" for a bike, when he could find himself in much direr straits in the future?

Yeah, this is a case of "selling your social capital cheap".

Still, never underestimate what an impudent self-interested narcissist may be able to do in the digital area.

A lot of people aren't very bright and many lack basic power awareness and even basic (financial) self-preservation instincts.

It's not many on a percentage basis -which is why it's not good to do it in your real life-, but with the Internet, those small percentages become an ocean of potential "not so bright" people to exploit.

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#502 · February 28, 2023, 4:45 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 4:45 am
Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:22 am
Thank you, Lucio.
I totally agree: consistency of higher-power behavior and checking power moves is key.
Especially after I let some people disrespect me for a loong time, they simply did not believe my first occasional push-backs were "real".
And people are testing me more than once, including in cases where I had blocked them for more than a year, and only then resumed contact - which proves that removing people from one's life is not sufficient to gain respect, in itself. *
Also, before-TPM, I would occasionally be able to "check a power move". But as you say, the general feeling these people got from me was probably: "just chance he did it". And, they were right.
I think there was a "switch" at a certain point of my learning here in TPM where I realized internally that:
I don't care if any people will get away from me because I check their power moves and demand to be respected. If so, good riddance. Go ruin someone else's life.
I'm the good guy, not the bad guy. I treat everyone kindly, but if someone disrespects me, all bets are off.
I can make people pay. Thanks to what I am learning in TPM and Power University, they are going to incur (social) consequences if they bullshit or power move on me.
Basically all the core messages that Power University teaches!
I still may not know how to manage specific things or behaviors. As I reflect on the first tentative checks I did, I find they were very rough. But I am starting to see that if I apply my mind to it, I can now deduce what's going on and strategize a response.
What makes the biggest difference for me is being able to understand and articulate why things work this way.
It's starting to be a huge change, and a huge life relief. It's freedom. Thank you!
* Digression here: one person, as soon as he saw me after more than one year "no contact", tried to put his hand on my shoulder when we said hi. I went for the Castro move (a staple now!).
He still touched me on the shoulder later when I was distracted. I then implemented my idea of re-touching to demonstrate "liking" (and maybe also judging): I waited a bit, then put my hand on his shoulder from behind and said "Nice suit you have" in front of everyone.
He has not touched me again so far. Now he salutes me politely.
BOOOM!
Rock on, Bel!
Now for the icing on the cake you may consider doing some self-defense classes, just so that you can feel confident you may be able to throw a punch or roll down.
Most likely never will be needed -same as for the law, after all-, but it's more something you do for the underlying confidence, than the actual skills -but still, the skills and also the physical exercise are a great plus-.
Some people don't need it at all, and some need it a lot (the latter are probably more than the former).
But most people fall in-between so most people can gain from it.

Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:22 am
Thank you, Lucio.
I totally agree: consistency of higher-power behavior and checking power moves is key.
Especially after I let some people disrespect me for a loong time, they simply did not believe my first occasional push-backs were "real".
And people are testing me more than once, including in cases where I had blocked them for more than a year, and only then resumed contact - which proves that removing people from one's life is not sufficient to gain respect, in itself. *
Also, before-TPM, I would occasionally be able to "check a power move". But as you say, the general feeling these people got from me was probably: "just chance he did it". And, they were right.
I think there was a "switch" at a certain point of my learning here in TPM where I realized internally that:
I don't care if any people will get away from me because I check their power moves and demand to be respected. If so, good riddance. Go ruin someone else's life.
I'm the good guy, not the bad guy. I treat everyone kindly, but if someone disrespects me, all bets are off.
I can make people pay. Thanks to what I am learning in TPM and Power University, they are going to incur (social) consequences if they bullshit or power move on me.
Basically all the core messages that Power University teaches!
I still may not know how to manage specific things or behaviors. As I reflect on the first tentative checks I did, I find they were very rough. But I am starting to see that if I apply my mind to it, I can now deduce what's going on and strategize a response.
What makes the biggest difference for me is being able to understand and articulate why things work this way.
It's starting to be a huge change, and a huge life relief. It's freedom. Thank you!
* Digression here: one person, as soon as he saw me after more than one year "no contact", tried to put his hand on my shoulder when we said hi. I went for the Castro move (a staple now!).
He still touched me on the shoulder later when I was distracted. I then implemented my idea of re-touching to demonstrate "liking" (and maybe also judging): I waited a bit, then put my hand on his shoulder from behind and said "Nice suit you have" in front of everyone.
He has not touched me again so far. Now he salutes me politely.

BOOOM!

Rock on, Bel!

Now for the icing on the cake you may consider doing some self-defense classes, just so that you can feel confident you may be able to throw a punch or roll down.

Most likely never will be needed -same as for the law, after all-, but it's more something you do for the underlying confidence, than the actual skills -but still, the skills and also the physical exercise are a great plus-.

Some people don't need it at all, and some need it a lot (the latter are probably more than the former).
But most people fall in-between so most people can gain from it.

Kavalier and B have reacted to this post.

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#503 · February 28, 2023, 6:52 pm

Quote from B on February 28, 2023, 6:52 pm
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 4:41 am
Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:34 am
It was online, on the Gofundme website - which I now discovered is used precisely for these kinds of things.
He then spread the webpage around via Whatsapp to his contacts.
I find it incredible he raised money with this, although I now understand his success derives mainly from the contacts he has developed in real life with people, and less on the actual "request".
I also would never personally make an "emergency funding request" for anything. I find it manipulative to ask for "contribution" to "be able to buy back something I lost".
He could just continue doing his work and then buy back one when he can.
Assuming there is a legitimate use for these kinds of requests, I also think these have a "limited maximum number" in one's life. He used one. If he starts doing this regularly, people are going to stop being responsive. So why use an "emergency funding request" for a bike, when he could find himself in much direr straits in the future?
Yeah, this is a case of "selling your social capital cheap".
Similar to what multilevel marketing companies seek to manipulate people to do: https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/network-marketing-dynamics-selling-your-social-circle-short-avoid-it/
Still, never underestimate what an impudent self-interested narcissist may be able to do in the digital area.
A lot of people aren't very bright and many lack basic power awareness and even basic (financial) self-preservation instincts.
It's not many on a percentage basis -which is why it's not good to do it in your real life-, but with the Internet, those small percentages become an ocean of potential "not so bright" people to exploit.
Thank you, Lucio!
That thread you pointed to is golden and enlightening.
And as to the "impudent narcissist", you're totally spot on on this guy.
For more context, in the past this gym instructor even tried to make a pass at Bella, who told me. And, later he sent her a text message where he wrote "I apologize for making a pass at you, since it's obvious you and Bel have something special going on".
I'm missing the right emoji here, so let's just imagine it...

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 4:41 am
Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:34 am
It was online, on the Gofundme website - which I now discovered is used precisely for these kinds of things.
He then spread the webpage around via Whatsapp to his contacts.
I find it incredible he raised money with this, although I now understand his success derives mainly from the contacts he has developed in real life with people, and less on the actual "request".
I also would never personally make an "emergency funding request" for anything. I find it manipulative to ask for "contribution" to "be able to buy back something I lost".
He could just continue doing his work and then buy back one when he can.
Assuming there is a legitimate use for these kinds of requests, I also think these have a "limited maximum number" in one's life. He used one. If he starts doing this regularly, people are going to stop being responsive. So why use an "emergency funding request" for a bike, when he could find himself in much direr straits in the future?
Yeah, this is a case of "selling your social capital cheap".
Similar to what multilevel marketing companies seek to manipulate people to do: https://thepowermoves.com/forum/topic/network-marketing-dynamics-selling-your-social-circle-short-avoid-it/
Still, never underestimate what an impudent self-interested narcissist may be able to do in the digital area.
A lot of people aren't very bright and many lack basic power awareness and even basic (financial) self-preservation instincts.
It's not many on a percentage basis -which is why it's not good to do it in your real life-, but with the Internet, those small percentages become an ocean of potential "not so bright" people to exploit.

Thank you, Lucio!

That thread you pointed to is golden and enlightening.

And as to the "impudent narcissist", you're totally spot on on this guy.

For more context, in the past this gym instructor even tried to make a pass at Bella, who told me. And, later he sent her a text message where he wrote "I apologize for making a pass at you, since it's obvious you and Bel have something special going on".

I'm missing the right emoji here, so let's just imagine it...

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#504 · February 28, 2023, 6:54 pm

Quote from B on February 28, 2023, 6:54 pm
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 4:45 am
Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:22 am
Thank you, Lucio.
I totally agree: consistency of higher-power behavior and checking power moves is key.
Especially after I let some people disrespect me for a loong time, they simply did not believe my first occasional push-backs were "real".
And people are testing me more than once, including in cases where I had blocked them for more than a year, and only then resumed contact - which proves that removing people from one's life is not sufficient to gain respect, in itself. *
Also, before-TPM, I would occasionally be able to "check a power move". But as you say, the general feeling these people got from me was probably: "just chance he did it". And, they were right.
I think there was a "switch" at a certain point of my learning here in TPM where I realized internally that:
I don't care if any people will get away from me because I check their power moves and demand to be respected. If so, good riddance. Go ruin someone else's life.
I'm the good guy, not the bad guy. I treat everyone kindly, but if someone disrespects me, all bets are off.
I can make people pay. Thanks to what I am learning in TPM and Power University, they are going to incur (social) consequences if they bullshit or power move on me.
Basically all the core messages that Power University teaches!
I still may not know how to manage specific things or behaviors. As I reflect on the first tentative checks I did, I find they were very rough. But I am starting to see that if I apply my mind to it, I can now deduce what's going on and strategize a response.
What makes the biggest difference for me is being able to understand and articulate why things work this way.
It's starting to be a huge change, and a huge life relief. It's freedom. Thank you!
* Digression here: one person, as soon as he saw me after more than one year "no contact", tried to put his hand on my shoulder when we said hi. I went for the Castro move (a staple now!).
He still touched me on the shoulder later when I was distracted. I then implemented my idea of re-touching to demonstrate "liking" (and maybe also judging): I waited a bit, then put my hand on his shoulder from behind and said "Nice suit you have" in front of everyone.
He has not touched me again so far. Now he salutes me politely.
BOOOM!
Rock on, Bel!
Now for the icing on the cake you may consider doing some self-defense classes, just so that you can feel confident you may be able to throw a punch or roll down.
Most likely never will be needed -same as for the law, after all-, but it's more something you do for the underlying confidence, than the actual skills -but still, the skills and also the physical exercise are a great plus-.
Some people don't need it at all, and some need it a lot (the latter are probably more than the former).
But most people fall in-between so most people can gain from it.
Thank you!
I totally agree, and I took several years self-defense classes in the past.
I learned a lot in two different sports (judo and krav-maga), but in both cases - I now realize - I was forced out of these classes as I was seriously injured by some bad people... but that's another story.
It's true, just knowing how to throw a punch without breaking your wrist or finger bones makes a big difference. But the biggest difference was still made by PU.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on February 28, 2023, 4:45 am
Quote from Bel on February 28, 2023, 2:22 am
Thank you, Lucio.
I totally agree: consistency of higher-power behavior and checking power moves is key.
Especially after I let some people disrespect me for a loong time, they simply did not believe my first occasional push-backs were "real".
And people are testing me more than once, including in cases where I had blocked them for more than a year, and only then resumed contact - which proves that removing people from one's life is not sufficient to gain respect, in itself. *
Also, before-TPM, I would occasionally be able to "check a power move". But as you say, the general feeling these people got from me was probably: "just chance he did it". And, they were right.
I think there was a "switch" at a certain point of my learning here in TPM where I realized internally that:
I don't care if any people will get away from me because I check their power moves and demand to be respected. If so, good riddance. Go ruin someone else's life.
I'm the good guy, not the bad guy. I treat everyone kindly, but if someone disrespects me, all bets are off.
I can make people pay. Thanks to what I am learning in TPM and Power University, they are going to incur (social) consequences if they bullshit or power move on me.
Basically all the core messages that Power University teaches!
I still may not know how to manage specific things or behaviors. As I reflect on the first tentative checks I did, I find they were very rough. But I am starting to see that if I apply my mind to it, I can now deduce what's going on and strategize a response.
What makes the biggest difference for me is being able to understand and articulate why things work this way.
It's starting to be a huge change, and a huge life relief. It's freedom. Thank you!
* Digression here: one person, as soon as he saw me after more than one year "no contact", tried to put his hand on my shoulder when we said hi. I went for the Castro move (a staple now!).
He still touched me on the shoulder later when I was distracted. I then implemented my idea of re-touching to demonstrate "liking" (and maybe also judging): I waited a bit, then put my hand on his shoulder from behind and said "Nice suit you have" in front of everyone.
He has not touched me again so far. Now he salutes me politely.
BOOOM!
Rock on, Bel!
Now for the icing on the cake you may consider doing some self-defense classes, just so that you can feel confident you may be able to throw a punch or roll down.
Most likely never will be needed -same as for the law, after all-, but it's more something you do for the underlying confidence, than the actual skills -but still, the skills and also the physical exercise are a great plus-.
Some people don't need it at all, and some need it a lot (the latter are probably more than the former).
But most people fall in-between so most people can gain from it.

Thank you!

I totally agree, and I took several years self-defense classes in the past.

I learned a lot in two different sports (judo and krav-maga), but in both cases - I now realize - I was forced out of these classes as I was seriously injured by some bad people... but that's another story.

It's true, just knowing how to throw a punch without breaking your wrist or finger bones makes a big difference. But the biggest difference was still made by PU.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#505 · February 28, 2023, 6:58 pm

By the way, one additional note:

my idea of framing touching back as a form of "kindness" was, I now realize, also derived from something I saw my former boss do super-frequently. Among other things, he would often touch my face in the guise of being a "caring fatherly boss"...

I think doing the same for self-defense against people who touch to one-up is totally justified.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#506 · March 3, 2023, 12:16 pm

Person constantly suggesting I was not fond of seeing her

I had lunch at home with a relative who, during the conversation, constantly suggested she was "unwelcome" throughout the conversation:

Relative: Are you happy that I'm here?
Relative: You're not answering, maybe you didn't like what I said?
Relative: Don't worry, I'll leave soon.
Relative: (to Bella) He's not so happy about me.
Relative: If you can stand me a bit more...

Initially, I tried ignoring or addressing each single one. But to no (general) avail.

It was becoming maddening and it was irritating me a lot.

At a certain point, I thought "I have to do something about this and point it out, otherwise I'll really wish she were not here".

I believe I unconsciously tried to apply the suggestion to "raise availability to avoid self-rejection", and said something like:

Me: X, why do you keep questioning my fondness of seeing you. I assure you I am happy to see you, and there's no need to doubt about this. I'm here.

And, she stopped.

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#507 · March 4, 2023, 1:29 am

Well handled, Bel.

I find that approach very irritating.

In my opinion, it's a covert power flip from a position of (fake) weakness.

Similar to guilt-tripping.

Why is it a power flip?

Because if normal and well-adjusted people don't like you, it's your responsibility to change something and make your presence more pleasant and value-adding.
Edit:
This is contextual of course. If someone doesn't like you no, it's not necessarily your problem -especially not if you want or ask nothing of them-. But if that someone is family, invited you home, is offering you food and attention and you're actively annoying them, then no, it is also your responsibility to be a "pleasant enough" guest and have a "good enough" relationship.

That approach instead singles out and blames you for not liking them.
You become the one who's ruining the evening -instead of them-.

That's the power flip: they act poorly, surprise surprise you don't like them because, well, nobody would, and they blame you for it.

Personally, I'd address it higher power.

There are many ways of course, but one option is to say exactly that with a meta technique:

Originally, it's 100% false and Iwas very happy to have you here (<---- strong stop)
so I don't appreciate you saying the opposite.
HOWEVER, the more you repeat it, the more unpleasant you make our time, and so the truer it becomes.
You're our guest and we're happy to have you here.
But we share the responsibility of making this a pleasant evening.
Sorry to say, but if you keep making up unfonded accusations that I don't want you here, you're doing the opposite of being a pleasant guest.
So I'm asking you to please stop it for good.
Got it?
Can you do that?
OK, thank you

Then go back to being kind and pleasant and leave it all behind.

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#508 · March 4, 2023, 5:54 am

Quote from Bel on March 3, 2023, 12:16 pm

Me: X, why do you keep questioning my fondness of seeing you. I assure you I am happy to see you, and there's no need to doubt about this. I'm here.

Hi Bel,

Your answer was solid and I feel you could have surfaced it by asking her about it since she kept on repeating the question.

Relative: Are you happy that I'm here?
Me: Of course I'm happy that you're here, what makes you ask that?

I don't think it was a power move, seems to more like a a socially uncalibrated bid by the relative to feel more valued and wanted.

There is a chance your relative was expecting you to say/do something which might have signaled/ reassured her that her presence was indeed wanted by you and that you had not invited here as mere obligation, it could have been something genuine or been prompted as a power move like Lucio said. Next time maybe this could be resolved by simply asking what makes you say that? Or even now you could reach out to the relative and ask what made you ask me that, and based on the reply decide if its a power move or something harmless, but socially uncalibrated.

Thank You

Mav

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#509 · March 4, 2023, 11:26 pm

I remember one of the principles of thanking correctly is to make it specific.

I wonder if this might be useful here. On top of saying you do like her visiting.

Of course we love it when you come around love it when you come around I was just telling Bella the other day that story I love the other day that story you told me.... blah blah

Or maybe remind her of some good time that you guys had to good time that you guys had together at family Christmas

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#510 · March 5, 2023, 10:22 am

Quote from B on March 5, 2023, 10:22 am
Thank you, Maverick and Transitioned.
And, thank you so much, Lucio:
I particularly liked this approach you suggest, and will use it:
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 4, 2023, 1:29 am
Well handled, Bel.
I find that approach very irritating.
In my opinion, it's a covert power flip from a position of (fake) weakness.
Similar to guilt-tripping.
Why is it a power flip?
Because if normal and well-adjusted people don't like you, it's your responsibility to change something and make your presence more pleasant and value-adding.
Edit:
This is contextual of course. If someone doesn't like you no, it's not necessarily your problem -especially not if you want or ask nothing of them-. But if that someone is family, invited you home, is offering you food and attention and you're actively annoying them, then no, it is also your responsibility to be a "pleasant enough" guest and have a "good enough" relationship.
That approach instead singles out and blames you for not liking them.
You become the one who's ruining the evening -instead of them-.
That's the power flip: they act poorly, surprise surprise you don't like them because, well, nobody would, and they blame you for it.
Personally, I'd address it higher power.
There are many ways of course, but one option is to say exactly that with a meta technique:
Originally, it's 100% false and Iwas very happy to have you here (<---- strong stop)
so I don't appreciate you saying the opposite.
HOWEVER, the more you repeat it, the more unpleasant you make our time, and so the truer it becomes.
You're our guest and we're happy to have you here.
But we share the responsibility of making this a pleasant evening.
Sorry to say, but if you keep making up unfonded accusations that I don't want you here, you're doing the opposite of being a pleasant guest.
So I'm asking you to please stop it for good.
Got it?
Can you do that?
OK, thank you
Then go back to being kind and pleasant and leave it all behind.
This is spot on and very helpful.
While originally I thought the behavior in question was a form of insecurity, I now see how it is a way to condition others to "cater to her" without her directly asking for what she wants. With the added negative of trying to make people "feel bad".
My original approach has the negative of falling down the manipulative "catering" request.
So your higher-power approach of showing what she was doing is perfect. I'm going to use it.

Thank you, Maverick and Transitioned.

And, thank you so much, Lucio:

I particularly liked this approach you suggest, and will use it:

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 4, 2023, 1:29 am
Well handled, Bel.
I find that approach very irritating.
In my opinion, it's a covert power flip from a position of (fake) weakness.
Similar to guilt-tripping.
Why is it a power flip?
Because if normal and well-adjusted people don't like you, it's your responsibility to change something and make your presence more pleasant and value-adding.
Edit:
This is contextual of course. If someone doesn't like you no, it's not necessarily your problem -especially not if you want or ask nothing of them-. But if that someone is family, invited you home, is offering you food and attention and you're actively annoying them, then no, it is also your responsibility to be a "pleasant enough" guest and have a "good enough" relationship.
That approach instead singles out and blames you for not liking them.
You become the one who's ruining the evening -instead of them-.
That's the power flip: they act poorly, surprise surprise you don't like them because, well, nobody would, and they blame you for it.
Personally, I'd address it higher power.
There are many ways of course, but one option is to say exactly that with a meta technique:
Originally, it's 100% false and Iwas very happy to have you here (<---- strong stop)
so I don't appreciate you saying the opposite.
HOWEVER, the more you repeat it, the more unpleasant you make our time, and so the truer it becomes.
You're our guest and we're happy to have you here.
But we share the responsibility of making this a pleasant evening.
Sorry to say, but if you keep making up unfonded accusations that I don't want you here, you're doing the opposite of being a pleasant guest.
So I'm asking you to please stop it for good.
Got it?
Can you do that?
OK, thank you
Then go back to being kind and pleasant and leave it all behind.

This is spot on and very helpful.

While originally I thought the behavior in question was a form of insecurity, I now see how it is a way to condition others to "cater to her" without her directly asking for what she wants. With the added negative of trying to make people "feel bad".

My original approach has the negative of falling down the manipulative "catering" request.

So your higher-power approach of showing what she was doing is perfect. I'm going to use it.

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