Bel's thoughts
I think it's great, Bel. It brings upfront the fact that you are giving (I remain available) and reinstates the collaborative frame she was lacking, especially when you say together. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Kavalier! Your perspective is very helpful.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on July 6, 2022, 4:53 pmI wanted to quote the part on unblocking most of the contacts that I had quickly read on mobile as a major step forward, but I was too late for that 🙂
Lucio, thank you. It's true, I have unblocked almost everyone so far (one person remains blocked for now). Don't think I will ever hear from most of them in the future, but at least I don't have to "hide" anymore.
Quote from Bel on June 23, 2022, 12:49 amHim: My [relative] passed away weeks ago. Did you know it?
Me: Yes, I sent you my condolences then!
Him: That’s true! But do you understand it’s been years in any case since you last messaged me?
Me: I’m happy you are well X, talk soon.
Revisiting this script because I now remember that this text conversation was more complex than how I wrote it above.
I think it was me the one who reached out, and as far as I remember it went like this:
Me: Hi X, good [festivity]!
Him: Hi Bel, how are you?
Me: Hi X, I'm good and you?
Him: My [relative] passed away weeks ago. Did you know it?
Me: Yes, I'm sorry! I sent you an email with my condolences!
Him: That’s true!
Him: The last text message I received from you was years ago, can you believe it?
Me: Well it's good that we are talking now then!
Me: And I’m happy you are well X, talk soon.
Of course I probably came across exactly like in the "simplified" version, but I just wanted to reconstruct the full exchange here for myself, as best as I can remember it, as it was a bit more extended and maybe I was, at least, a bit less sketchy.
I understand the optimal responde to the line:
Him: My [relative] passed away weeks ago. Did you know it?
Consists of just empathizing and not even mentioning any past email/message of condolences, to avoid defending.
Coming back to this as well:
Quote from Bel on July 6, 2022, 5:32 pmLucio, thank you. It's true, I have unblocked almost everyone so far (one person remains blocked for now). Don't think I will ever hear from most of them in the future, but at least I don't have to "hide" anymore.
I'm probably still not behaving optimally here.
I recently received calls or messages from two or three very nasty people I had blocked (and now unblocked), and I didn't answer nor acknowledge them in any way. On some level I wanted to hurt them, and on some other level I still feared they could be able to successfully make me react emotionally / provoke me.
Maybe the next step in my path here will be me being able to just answer, say hi, listen for a minute and then, if they behave badly, politely find an excuse to get off the call.
Quote from Bel on July 6, 2022, 3:42 pm
Hi Lia,
I hope the vacation went well, and I remain available to review the draft agreement together.
Kind regards
Thinking more about this email I wrote: I think this was also meant to be a form of “inoculation” against the possibility that my client could have:
- anticipated to me that she would involve me further in this, and then
- not actually involved me anymore.
Now, I don’t think this would have happened or will happen in this specific case, but I have been wondering for a long time if there was a form of preventive protection against people anticipating doing things just to then spite me by disappearing: something I used to experience very frequently.
So the email above basically puts the relation on an equal footing: if she doesn’t write me anymore, I’m not “losing”, as I was “available to help her” (ie in an active stance myself) and not just waiting for her to follow up on her promise to send me the draft.
Would there be a way to do the same in purely social settings or situations?
Other: Hi Bel, I’m going to call you tomorrow to discuss that thing!
Me: Hi X, it’s good if we’re able to catch up on this.
The idea is to subcommunicate that I’m not passively waiting for the call (because the other person could then disrespect me by simply not following up, which used to happen frequently).
In general, my experience is that a person loudly anticipating he or she will do something is somewhat of a red flag (especially if it’s “I will call you on x day”). That could be a trigger to answer with an “interim self-protection text”.
Or maybe another idea could be to pin them down on their intention and frame it as a commitment:
Other: Hi Bel, I’m going to call you tomorrow to discuss that thing!
Me: Hi X, perfect. I look forward to speak with you tomorrow as you promised.
On the other hand, maybe I’m focusing on a defensive mindset here that is not helpful.
Quote from Bel on July 6, 2022, 3:42 pmHi Lia,
I hope the vacation went well, and I remain available to review the draft agreement together.
Kind regards
Me: Hi X, good [festivity]!
Him: Hi Bel, how are you?
Me: Hi X, I'm good and you?
Him: My [relative] passed away weeks ago. Did you know it?
Me: Yes, I'm sorry! I sent you an email with my condolences!
Him: That’s true!
Him: The last text message I received from you was years ago, can you believe it?
Me: Well it's good that we are talking now then!
Me: And I’m happy you are well X, talk soon.
Mature answer.
I recently received calls or messages from two or three very nasty people I had blocked (and now unblocked), and I didn't answer nor acknowledge them in any way. On some level I wanted to hurt them, and on some other level I still feared they could be able to successfully make me react emotionally / provoke me.
This is passive-aggressiveness. Trying to hurt them while avoiding of doing something. I would recommend to answer them so you can learn something. Try being assertive with them, ask them news from them, be cordial and defend power moves. It will go smoothly if you do I believe. You don't have to see them again or talk with them. Just exchange a few texts and then you wish them a good day.
Other: Hi Bel, I’m going to call you tomorrow to discuss that thing!
Me: Hi X, perfect. Talk to you tomorrow. 🙂
I would change it to this. You are assertive and if they are not calling you you go assertive as well: "Hey X, you told me you were going to call me but I got no news. Let me know"
Quote from John Freeman on July 7, 2022, 12:50 pmOther: Hi Bel, I’m going to call you tomorrow to discuss that thing!
Me: Hi X, perfect. Talk to you tomorrow. 🙂
I would change it to this. You are assertive and if they are not calling you you go assertive as well: "Hey X, you told me you were going to call me but I got no news. Let me know"
is especially helpful. Just being a normal guy who says "yes, talk tomorrow". And if they don't follow up, I'll ask why.
I'll do that.
Exactly. I'm happy it's helpful. You don't have to do what I proposed. Only if it makes sense to you. What I'm offering is feed-back not instructions 🙂
We're brothers in arms!
But if it does make sense, it's a good thing if you apply what you learn here.
Yes, I think it's very important to move from submissive behaviour to assertive behaviour. Behind hides the fear of conflict and the fear of being harmed. It can happen when our parents condition us to bow to them and not be able to express ourselves. So there might be some conditioning to break here.
And it happens through experimentation. Seeing for ourselves that these situations as adults don't have the same consequences or importance as when we were vulnerable and dependent children.
I don't know your childhood history. I'm speculating from mine here.
Quote from John Freeman on July 7, 2022, 1:06 pmExactly. I'm happy it's helpful. You don't have to do what I proposed. Only if it makes sense to you. What I'm offering is feed-back not instructions 🙂
I know John. Wouldn't have said that if you had suggested to jump off a bridge 🙂
Here's something I experienced at the start of my career many years ago, when I was intern at a company.
It's lunch. I am sitting and eating with 10 colleagues from throughout the company, plus my then-boss. I've been working there for 5 months so far, and everyone was satisfied. Suddenly the boss says loudly:
Boss: Bel is great, but has no eagerness to work whatsoever.
I said nothing and just started at her in disbelief. Then she asked me to stay after lunch to talk, and I refused saying I had work to do.
What could be a good comeback for this kind of thing? It seems so far out of normal polite bounds it isn't even a joke.
I now think it was related to me announcing the day before that I would be leaving at end of internship contract.
After the remark, I cut short my time there by one month.
(BTW, every time I resigned from a place and gave the standard two weeks' advance notice (which I wasn't bound to under the law), I experienced retaliation. If I ever entered into new "subordinate" employment now (never!), I would very probably never give advance notice, and just announce I'm leaving on a Friday afternoon.)
I'm thinking about using vulnerability here:
Boss: Bel is great, but has no eagerness to work whatsoever.
Me: I'm shocked. I'm really shocked my boss could say that. (shaking head in disbelief)
Personally, I would use surfacing + the frowned eyebrows face:
Boss: Bel is great, but has no eagerness to work whatsoever.
Me: Why do you say that?
Because I would really like to know. There's something implied that is unsaid. And you cannot address it if you don't know what it is. Maybe that is why he wanted you to stay after to talk. To tell you why. Who knows? Anyway here is another suggestion.
Boss: Bel is great, but has no eagerness to work whatsoever.
Me: Hahaha, well I love to work here, clients are awesome!
If he does not reply to it as it was a joke, I would address it this time:
Me: Oh this is not a joke? Well, I'm quite surprised to hear that. Why do you say that?