Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
Bel's thoughts
Yeah, the main lesson that (to me) sounded "off" was this:
But I admit it may be a personal distaste for "quick fixes".
Got it, thank you Bel.
Yeah, I can see it can come across as a "shortcut to avoid the hard work" and one may certainly take it that way.
I see it differently though because:
- One may see dating as secondary to another life mission, so the shortcut to save time/investment can make sense
- One can do BOTH hard work and shortcut (you can always get "more" in an easier market, no matter how hard you've worked or how good you've become)
- Not everyone will do the hard work, no matter how much you can recommend it, and that's a good way to at least get results (probably this is the majority, actually)
Connecting to the discussion on "honest sexual marketplace talk" that was started on John's journal.
Another piece of the puzzle I only now realize is that most people (ie most women and probably even most men) simply do not want to admit what turns them on and what they like in the behavior of the opposite sex.
In other words, I believe it's an innate thing for most people to not admit what they are really attracted to, and - when asked - give out an edulcorated version of how "they would want things to be".
So speaking about these things is always risky of the speaker being used to virtue-signal against by most women and by most other men.
A bit like speaking about the realities of corporate manipulation in a workplace - to be probably avoided.
Unless one knows what he's doing, why he's doing it, and how to respond to the inevitable push back.
Fake disinterest and fake annoyance as a test?
Connecting to Alejom's journal entry about a woman texting:
She: when you said you were Spanish, my first thought was NO FUCKING WAY AGAIN. Really.
Alejom said he took it as a test.
I reflected on it and now realize something about an approach I did many many years ago.
The woman, whom I went to talk to while waiting for a train, after some chit chat told me:
She: Oh you're a lawyer... what a bad profession. (disappointed tone)
Now I see that she was most likely testing me as well.
A sort of "big disqualifying" test, meant to see if one can handle a pretty big "rejection" - probably also related to being kind of an insecure woman, as I was as a man at the time.
It makes sense, because if a woman isn't interested, she's not going to say much at all. Most likely to stop texting or interacting.
It's also in line with what happened later: I lost interest then and there, and stopped talking to her.
And I remember another guy came to talk to her, and she made a big show of being kind and courteous to him in front of me - with a behavior that was dramatically opposite to the one she had used throughout her conversation with me.
I didn't understand it at the time, but this was most likely another signal to me, ie that she actually liked me.
Very interesting situation, Bel.
And I totally agree with your read that her extra niceness to the next guy was a power move toward you (or at least something done on purpose and with a definite end and for sure not out of "genuine kindness").
And it may have indeed been because she was emotionally affected by that whole approach (ie.: liked you).
Don't think it was to show "liking" in a nice way, but more to show "look what you have lost, there's a queue here... (Do something to turn it around/chase me)".
Thank you, Lucio.
I should have used your approach:
Me: Good thing I'm the good kind of lawyer then (smile).
Only thing, alas, I didn't know it back then...
I suspect her reaction was due to several factors which are unlikely to present themselves now:
- I was insecure
- I was somewhat confrontational in my approaches
- I was attracted to a different kind of woman than the kind I am attracted to now.
This morning, as I was leaving the house and exiting the elevator, a neighbor said "Hi" to me.
Some context:
- before getting on TPM, I had always said "good day" to this particular neighbor, and he never responded to me;
- once, he told Bella when he encountered her on the street alone "cover yourself, it's cold!"
- after I studied PU, I stopped saying hi to him altogether.
Now, this morning, he saw me and said hi - for the first time.
I am now dressing much better than before, to be sure.
And also probably projecting a different vibe.
But I didn't respond to him.
As we were passing in front of my doorman, I noticed the doorman said "Hi" to me but not to him.
Even though the doorman, in that initial year before-TPM when I sorta got to know him, had often talked about this guy as a successful lawyer in front of me.
Everything's becoming very clear to me now.
Nice going, Bel!
Those are all signs that your development has gone a looong way.
Personally, I'd have replied to the "hi" after her said so first.
The first time you reply very cold and distant, quietly, without looking at him -just to avoid turning around too quickly-.
Then, with normal voice loudness.
Then, quickly looking at him.
Eventually, you can say "hi" normally.
How I would personally do it -not necessarily the best approach, and for the specific situation you always know better of course-.
I've been reflecting on this answer I gave, as the forum consensus was that I was overreacting there.
I've found that reflecting on why I overreact in my imaginary scenarios or in real life is key to uncovering past unaddressed hurt that is begging to be let go.
Well, aside from the frequent experience of being bullied by psychopaths and narcissists - which I spoke about many times on the forum - I now recall one specific episode many years ago where I was with my partner and other people at a dinner.
One of the guys present continued to order bottles of wine, and I was drinking very little.
I was trying to find a way to address this, but couldn't. At the end I spoke with my partner and she and another friend of hers present took the lead and said we would only be paying for the wine we drank.
I now understand that I relinquished agency big time, and two - not one, two - women - one of whom was my girlfriend - stepped in and "helped me" due to my lack of assertiveness.
I can't really imagine a worse scenario - actually I can, because I experienced much worse things due to my parents being the dark triads they are.
But just sayin'.
I had an epiphany today, and it was deep and painful.
I've been reflecting on the power moves that I found other people tried to pull off to distance me and my partner - in restaurants, family, friends scenarios, and acquaintances.
Just for the sake of this post, I'll recall two of the eye-opening scenarios I spoke about on this forum:
- one was the guy I spoke about here (who basically faked not seeing me to salute my partner before me). Lucio later commented on the jokes the guy made after the event:
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on August 11, 2022, 12:01 amDid you also spot the disempowering frame there?
That's the frame of one who courted through material giving. And material giving in dating is sometimes -not always!- used to make up for a sexual market value imbalance -ie., the frame being "she's higher value than him"-.
A strong check on this one:
Him: (to me) So how many bottles did you pass to her?
You: oh, we pass each other things (turns the frame from "I court and take care of her" to "we take care of each other"). It's you I'm not sure I'd pass anything (laughs out loud)
- the second was this thread I started about waiters trying to disparage me in front of my partner.
(BTW: the lesbian waitress who was trying to pick up my partner in front of me really was a lesbian waitress trying to do so - I know because we went back there and I was aware and closely watched her - but this is for another post).
Initially I thought these were just assholes I met by chance. Now I realize the issue was me, and these people were just poking the boundary holes I did have.
I had the epiphany today that I do have been (unconsciously) trying to make up with material things in my long term relationship with my girlfriend, because I was (unconsciously) lower value than her from an SMV point of view.
The psychopath asshole who faked not seeing me was just very power aware, and noted the chink in my armor - so to speak.
Which I was already beginning to repair at that time.
I just know this, because:
- after studying and applying PU, my partner has started to really be attracted to me at a primordial physical level, like she never was -Â and I as well to her;
- all the power moves from her are disappearing: she now tries to be more loving, more close, more helpful than ever;
- my "material giving" has been steadily reducing (unconsciously) all the while since I started PU, and now is basically almost zero;
- it has started to happen that other women whom I find attractive approach me (especially in stores) or show high interest, sometimes even when my partner is present. And she has noted it as well.
