Feedbacks & clarifications
Thank you Bel!
I think you analysis is on point and it clarifies it for me. I’ll be experimenting here also with thanking back. I think it’s socially gracious.
Something else I’ve been considering is not to answer anything to “thank you” or maybe just a smile for warmth.
edit: I’m curious about what you guys think on answering “it’s normal” or “it’s nothing”. I say it from now and then but I thought it’s either demeaning to the receiver (if it’s nothing then it could imply the other person is not very capable or it is demeaning their gratitude as you said) or it does not acknowledge the giving (it was not nothing) and therefore it is undervaluing the giving. I like “it’s normal” between friends as it implies “it’s normal between us/friends”. Since the beginning I’m looking for a way to relieve the receiver of the feeling of owing something to me (which started the whole “my pleasure” thing for me). I’m starting to think that there is no gift without counter-gift so accepting the thank you without trying to minimize the giving is a sign of respect (accepting the counter-gift).
Quote from John Freeman on May 26, 2023, 7:23 pmRegarding the opinions about a good contrarian idea. I totally agree and felt the same regarding the courage and the quality of the post. Kavalier, you rock! (As usual 🙂 )
Thank you, John! There are so many rockstars here in the community to get inspiration from, you among them!
Quote from Bel on May 26, 2023, 8:53 pmMy take:
- "you're welcome" highlights one was giving and increases the social credit imbalance;
- "my pleasure" is slightly better, but IMO it has an undertone of "you don't need to thank me", which slightly demeans the other person's gratitude (it probably also depends on the tone/context);
- "glad it was helpful" is slightly better because it focuses on the benefit given and underlies one cares about the other, but still somewhat highlights the imbalance and the giving.
To me best of all is just thanking back, as a form of "phatic" acknowledgment.
1+ to that, Bel! So simple, so effective. I think a simple "thank you" back may be a great stock response for most situations, especially if there was some kind of mutual gain (even if assimetric) involved.
Thank you, Kavalier!
To be fair I learned “thanking back” - and what “phatic language” is - from you and Lucio.
Thank you very much Kavalier!
Thank you, Kavalier for the kind words.
I was glad to read your answer, and always enjoy your posts on the forum as well.
I m wondering if we could go the team vibe, us vs the world, e.g. say:
Teamwork
Bros do that
Got your back
OFF-TOPIC
Quick reminder for staying on-topic.
"How to respond to a "thank you"", especially to avoid coming across manipulative ("credit inflating"), is very interesting.
If anyone wants to explore further, feel free to open a topic for that.
Edit:
Article available now, feel free to move/copy your latest post from here to there:
OFF-TOPIC
---
Book a call for personalized & private feedback
Hello J_J (don't want to "@" since the user is an email address),
Feedback on the recent reach outs and forum posts and what they mean for 1:1 goodwill, social status in the group, and the likelihood of getting what you want.
Look at this:
- New thread with several messages
- Two support-like posts on the thread that's more about the rationale
- Several emails once I checked
How do you think that feels to the receiver?
For the sake of learning, I'm going to be 100% frank.
My gut reaction is "Am I going to find J_J hiding under the bed asking if I got his email now?"
And second, since it feels like impinging and trying to force to-dos on me, it makes me not want to grant the request just to "get even" and re-assert my personal power and independence.
Granted, I am the exception here.
My personal feelings about it are exceptional because I'm extreme in my search and cravings for freedom and avoidance of whatever I feel are over-demands on my time and to-do lists, etc.
But one, there are many guys like me -and especially the driven ones, which tend to be the ones with the most to give, or the biggest ability to take away-.
And two, those who aren't as extreme still end up getting bothered by too many reach outs.
Second, when the behavior is public, it frames you very poorly.
You only need to look around to find out when you're treading socially perilous waters: how are others behaving?
If you're the only one doing something, it's either you're doing something great and you're on the way to leadership, or... The opposite.
Many are in the same boat, but many reacted very differently (email only, or a single post).
I don't want to mention the name for this type of behavior because the name feels derogatory and you're a great guy, but it may still be important to understand it.
It's on PU, too (and it made me think I need to highlight that lesson more, in the next update).
Too many reach outs in a short time feel like one is being overly emotional about it, potentially needy, and potentially "not having much else to do".
In dating, it's the equivalent of the guy who sends 4-5 messages in a row to a girl -"hey, why are you not replying?"-.
Also, it takes away everyone's time and makes the forum worse for all.
Most people are here to learn and share.
The more they read support requests, the more time they waste.
And that thread was supposed to discuss the rationale and feedback of an important decision, not to ask for "help".
I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh, but I think it's worth the risk in order to learn.
---
Book a call for personalized & private feedback
Yeah no it’s all good, I was just confused as what to do since my emails couldn’t get through.
I don’t have much else to do actually since I have time off from work and was hoping to finally get through the course but my time is limited to do so
thank you for allowing me access again it’s greatly appreciated!
@lucio, I decided to make the post here, not because of resentment but because I want to get it straight.
Firstly, I understand that you didn't mean me and also you didn't want to insult anyone on the forum, I also see this forum as a great place and I don't see myself leaving in the future.
More so than feeling deeply insulted, I decided to use this word to emphasize that I don't find making fun of other people opinions cool.
First because it may be that someone actually agree with them and is a forum user ( which can make him come as defensive or make him distanced, just like you said once "you create an out-group with people that are butt of your jokes" ) or even to save face in situations when someone is wrong, for example I could be wrong in this scenario, and if I laughed at people that think otherwise and were actually right, that makes me only worse off.
And because there was no real clarification what you mean by "hyper-relativists", I had to assume it's those that don't agree with your previous points, which I didn't, and continuing discussion without addressing it, I feel would leave me disempowered.
Also in truth, when someone is making fun of other people's ideas ( even if I don't agree with those ideas myself ), I don't find it cool, because I know everyone can get things wrong, I could very well be that person in different circumstances, I don't see it as constructive and helpful in long term.
Of course it is only natural, everyone has situations when they get angry at some ideas, at some group and will laugh or strongly criticize them, happens all the time, also to me, but as you said, mistakes happen but what makes you value adder or taker is person's overall behaviour, and I see you as a great value adding person that I will both gain from and will be happy to give back to.
If you have any something you disagree with in this post, or to add, feel free to answer.