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Female Relationship Control Article: feedback, criticism & questions
Hi Lucio,
I found the female relationship control article interesting for many reasons. However, there are a few areas that I need your help clarifying for a better understanding of the post from the Domestication of Men article.
1. How do men exert their control? In the example regarding the cheese. I have the understanding the scenario is about the interaction between the man and woman and how she chooses to communicate. I can that she yells at him and as a result, he feels demeaned. But what about passive-aggressive behavior? What if the woman is a bad cook and the man "forgets" the cheese as a tool of avoidance? Or maybe he's getting her back for a past interaction by not getting the cheese because he doesn't want to go to the store. In the example, he brings the bags in and expects her to help him put up the groceries. He doesn't ask her if she can help but directs her to help him put everything away. There's a lot of talk about the women's behavior in this example but why should we assume the man is not at fault nor out of line?
2. Relationships aren't one-sided. It takes two people in a relationship to make it work. What games of tasking, nagging, blaming, etc do men use on women? How does teasing, pranking, and other childish behavior work to establish control in relationships? What is the difference between disagreeing with someone and trying to establish control -- Does it always have to result from some combo of nagging-shaming-tasking-drama? Going back to the cheese example, does the man offer to return to the store or call out for delivery? The cheese appears to be a critical ingredient that is needed for the pasta dish. If this is so after he addresses the communication, how can the couple work together to get dinner prepared? When you have kids...this can be complex. How does the woman handle this situation if there's a pattern of forgetfulness? Should she stop asking him to go to the store? Then this is another form of control.
3. This excerpt from above has me stunned, "There is a saying where I come from, roughly translated as such: “an hair of pussy pulls more than a cart of hoaxes“. How true."
As a woman, I don't know what it's like to be under the influence of a woman's "ox cart". I like to treat men with respect and yet, the women that are idolized in our society are praised for their ability to be a Queen Bee. However, a man's attention does not validate me, my life, my future, or my achievements. When I read this part of the article, I wasn't sure how to take this. In fact, I personally find this saying demeaning to women. I'm offended as this makes it seem as though all women pull their weight in life by using what's between their legs to control men. Women don't live life to simply entice and control men with their vaginas like the Pied Piper. We can nurture, teach, show compassion, build value in society with our brains, and we can love others (without sex being the big motivator)! We are mothers, sisters, cousins, and best friends. I could be completely wrong and missing your point so please help me understand this excerpt better.
Overall, thank you for posting your article. It is helpful to have other perspectives but I have to humbly disagree with this post. I think the cheese example falls short of catching what it feels like to be demeaned. However, I like that you addressed the choice and style of communication and it's effects on others. But again, if this cheese argument stems from passive-aggressive behavior, then there's another issue with control.
Hi,
First of all, I think we agree more than you think.
Let me zoom in on a few key passages:
But what about passive-aggressive behavior? What if the woman is a bad cook and the man "forgets" the cheese as a tool of avoidance? Or maybe he's getting her back for a past interaction by not getting the cheese because he doesn't want to go to the store.
They are all certainly possible.
Pretending to do a mistake is indeed typical passive-aggressive behavior.
But then we would be dealing with different issues, and the article wasn't about those different issues.
But why should we assume the man is not at fault nor out of line?
For the sake of the article, it was assumed that we were dealing with an honest mistake.
Without a few assumptions, we would need to branch out at every single possibility and we'd end up writing an encyclopedia instead of an article.
So, to give you an example, I also wrote an article on the types of abusive men.
For the sake of the article, it was assumed that the woman was not an abuser herself and that she had nothing so bad that would warrant the abuse.
That assumption is needed to keep the article focused on the topic.
Relationships aren't one-sided. It takes two people in a relationship to make it work.
And I couldn't agree more.
Contrary to most dating advice, most of my articles on proper dating, for both men and women, are based on seeking opportunity for mutual investment and mutual collaboration (ie.: win-win as opposed to win-lose).
Not only that's better for both, but it's also, more often than not, more effective (few exceptions apply, as for everything).
One example of such articles is this:
I have on my "to write list" an article focused on why playing too many games (and too nasty games) ends up backfiring (but a few of those mistakes are listed already in "dating mistakes women commit" and, for men, a few of them are listed in "toxic masculinity mindsets").
But for an example from my own dating experiences over this summer, check out this forum entry:
How do men exert their control?
What games of tasking, nagging, blaming, etc do men use on women? How does teasing, pranking, and other childish behavior work to establish control in relationships?
Men play their own games, of course.
And when you mention "teasing", you totally hit the nail on the head.
In a way, male games are actually nastier because male games are aimed at keeping her one down. By lowering her self-esteem, male games ensure that the woman will remain dependent on them.
Needless to say, these are defensive games, inherently low-quality and borderline abusive even at moderate intensity levels.
I have not yet done a proper article on that, which is also in the offing.
But a few examples are in the Dating Power Dynamics ebook of course, and a few more good video examples of those "one-down games" can be seen in "combative relationships".
The "Pussy VS Hoax" Misunderstanding
On the saying of "a hair of pussy pulls more than a cart of hoaxes", I think that was a misunderstanding.
I might need to check again as it's very possible I didn't explain it well enough.
While that might indeed be regarded as a somewhat crude, locker-room type of saying, the way it's used is more endearing than mean. It's a bit like the more vulgar equivalent of "like bees to honey" or like the old and (entertaining) Kelis' song "my milkshake brings all the boys to my yard".
It does not imply that women hitchhike -or need to hitchhike- on a man to get wherever they want to go. Men using it simply communicate something like "we really dig women, don't we".
In the context of the article it means that since many women do and can exercise a strong pull on men, that's why they also have the ability to keep some of these men at their service.
Conclusions
Do all women take advantage of that power in the way the article express it?
Of course not.
Do some women do it?
Sure yes, I have seen it several times.
Do most women do it?
That's hard to say, there are no statistics. Purely in my opinion, yes. It simply comes with the territory. Women, on average, have more dating power than men. So they can ask for more.
It would be silly for nature not to optimize and not to demand for the difference, also considering that might help the species as a whole (but that second part is highly speculative).
Is it wrong?
Not necessarily. Depends on how you look at it. And depends on who does it and how she does it.
Some women do it nasty (like in the example of "get your ass back to work").
Some other women can be so endearing with the way they wield their dating power, that most men would want to serve, and happily do so. As a matter of fact, we might even say that the most successful female daters are the ones who make men want to serve for them.
