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Getting paid from Machievellian former boss

#51 · March 10, 2022, 9:28 pm

Fair enough, it makes sense.

Plus, there is one more (emotional) benefit to detached: it feels like it's now finally your turn to pull a power move on this ahole.

And probably you're glad about it -and it's a good thing, and not to be discounted-.

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#52 · March 12, 2022, 10:10 pm

Sent it yesterday. While immediately after sending it I started feeling great, today I have been much down and started having second thoughts.

I am much confused by my feelings, I hope they will settle in the next days.

#53 · March 13, 2022, 12:26 am

There's no rush in making a decision, you got a lot of time.

You can sit with it and think it over, or talk it over with someone.

Are you comfortable sharing how much money we're talking about here?

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#54 · March 13, 2022, 1:50 pm

Thank you Lucio for your kind words. Let's say I could almost buy one small new car with it.

My power analysis of the situation: I'm currently at the peak of my (relative) power here: since I now directly wrote I will sue him, if I don't do anything more from now on, I think he will stay put forever for fear I start the lawsuit or bring back this situation in the future. Which is, BTW, not a bad outcome.

If instead I start the lawsuit, all bets are off.

Today I feel a little better. I think part of my discomfort of yesterday was in integrating this new self of mine, capable of being so direct and "ruthless" so to speak. I would never have been able to behave this way in the past, especially based on past power differential with this person (which was enormous).

My drinking a beer before writing here on the forum might also have helped rebalance by mood today :)

After all ************************* (redacted as per request)

#55 · March 13, 2022, 3:25 pm

Apologies Lucio, can you please delete the last paragraph in my post here above (the one that starts with "after all..."): I must be more optimistic! And I need a two hour window to edit!

#56 · March 14, 2022, 12:43 pm

I think I will let my cognitive dissonance reduce before taking next steps, because I am still oscillating between suing and dropping, and this oscillation is proof that I must first process something inside of me.

#57 · March 14, 2022, 2:27 pm

Done.

Generally speaking, forum-wise, I'd say not to make too much of going "overboard" sometimes (forum-wise, in many life situations and environments it does make more sense to be careful and strategic of course).
As much as we know people -us included- have our dark sides here, I think we also all know we all have our "moments" (of doubts, weakness, emotional turmoil, anger, etc. etc.).

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#58 · March 15, 2022, 9:48 am

Quote from B on March 15, 2022, 9:48 am
I thought much about this whole endeavor, and reached some partial conclusions on my thoughts.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 9:11 pm
Nice move on seizing that opportunity for certified email.
As for going forward, you seem to have a nice plan in place.
What I'd ask is:
Do the 6 months pay exceed the time lost in the lawsuit?
If no, it might still be fair to forge ahead just for the pleasure of winning.
But you might still want to consider if:
Emotional detachment is possible or preferrable
If there are simpler ways to get your revenge and feel good
I know you said you want to keep all channels closed.
But still, on top of your plan I'd say to consider unblocking him on any phone/messaging/texts that cannot be used as evidence in court -such as, cannot be used against you-.
Then, you'd truly have little to lose.
The reason is simple: those other channels make it more likely you can avoid the lawsuit.
It's the power dynamics of saving face and having access to someone.
Just by having access to you, he can feel less disempowered.
If he has no other way of reaching you, he feels like he's being forced into one road only: pay or fight.
And he might decide to fight just to avoid "losing".
Even if he knows he'll lose, he might want to escalate just to waste your time and/or to have an excuse to punish you later on.
If instead, he can call you, you can make him feel "good enough" that he can pay and somewhat save face.
Such as, when and if he calls, you'd say something like:
Hey, hi, how are you.
All good here, and I hope you're also good.
Yeah, no worries and no bad blood on my side, just really want to close that chapter and get paid. Can you do that?
Whatever he says, just say "yeah, I'm just looking to get paid".
Does that make sense, at least in theory?
First thing I want to say here: thank you Lucio from the bottom of my heart for your invaluable help through this long personal journey of mine. I am rereading this first post you wrote on this thread and it was super spot-on. You "got" his character (and the reasoning behind my actions as well) better than I did at the time, even though I had experienced him in person for years. I, instead, got more and more clarity only as I went forward with my (then emotionally-charged) "plan".
I am now sure he is just waiting for the lawsuit to just waste my time as long as possible, or hoping I make a mistake.
The only difference with respect to what you initially foresaw was: for him it was not sufficient to reach me on the phone, as he did when I unblocked him: he wanted to humiliate me. His condition to pay was for me to go to him and basically apologize. When I did not respond to his text as he wanted, he decided then and there he wanted to wait for my lawsuit and fight.
The only thing is, humiliating myself by going to him was out of the question as far as I am now (I would say that, thank God, even before when I was a very submissive person without understanding it, I would have been incapable of doing such a blatant turnaround). So that was impossible. Because as you say, no money in the world can compensate for humiliation and submission.
On the contrary, I think so far I already got something out of all this, which is infinitely more valuable than the little money he owes me. I got the biggest, so-far missing, chunk of my self-respect back. When I sent him the notice that I would sue, I got back a part of me he had tried to strip out of me for years. Many others had also tried, but he was the best and, paradoxically, also the one who led me to "wake up" and change, because he led me to such lows in despair that I had no other choice than to either have my spirit broken forever, or wake up and fight.
So I think my last message, where I implicitly said "we are on the same plane, and I am more honest than you" (because that was the message) is a success in itself, and he will hate me forever just for reaching this point. All the more because he cannot answer, since he knows I would use it against him.
And now I understand why I wanted to choose the power-move "dear colleague" version against the less empowered one: because more than money, this whole thing was, and has always been, about my self-respect. That's also why I took days to write, change and rewrite the other previous text message to answer his: more than getting my fee, I wanted to get the respect I had always been unable to in the past.
And now I can drop it (but not say anything to him, who will always think I may sue him in the future), or even defer the whole thing to some other time, when I may be even more secure in my profession and on a more level playing field (if I then will want). The "stalemate", I think, assures he will not move for the time being, and probably never do another move with me. I effectively silenced him forever.
And I, at long last, can cry because I demonstrated to myself that he was unsuccessful in destroying my life, and that against all odds I came out of my long years of hell with this person stronger than before.

I thought much about this whole endeavor, and reached some partial conclusions on my thoughts.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 6, 2022, 9:11 pm
Nice move on seizing that opportunity for certified email.
As for going forward, you seem to have a nice plan in place.
What I'd ask is:
Do the 6 months pay exceed the time lost in the lawsuit?
If no, it might still be fair to forge ahead just for the pleasure of winning.
But you might still want to consider if:
Emotional detachment is possible or preferrable
If there are simpler ways to get your revenge and feel good
I know you said you want to keep all channels closed.
But still, on top of your plan I'd say to consider unblocking him on any phone/messaging/texts that cannot be used as evidence in court -such as, cannot be used against you-.
Then, you'd truly have little to lose.
The reason is simple: those other channels make it more likely you can avoid the lawsuit.
It's the power dynamics of saving face and having access to someone.
Just by having access to you, he can feel less disempowered.
If he has no other way of reaching you, he feels like he's being forced into one road only: pay or fight.
And he might decide to fight just to avoid "losing".
Even if he knows he'll lose, he might want to escalate just to waste your time and/or to have an excuse to punish you later on.
If instead, he can call you, you can make him feel "good enough" that he can pay and somewhat save face.
Such as, when and if he calls, you'd say something like:
Hey, hi, how are you.
All good here, and I hope you're also good.
Yeah, no worries and no bad blood on my side, just really want to close that chapter and get paid. Can you do that?
Whatever he says, just say "yeah, I'm just looking to get paid".
Does that make sense, at least in theory?

First thing I want to say here: thank you Lucio from the bottom of my heart for your invaluable help through this long personal journey of mine. I am rereading this first post you wrote on this thread and it was super spot-on. You "got" his character (and the reasoning behind my actions as well) better than I did at the time, even though I had experienced him in person for years. I, instead, got more and more clarity only as I went forward with my (then emotionally-charged) "plan".

I am now sure he is just waiting for the lawsuit to just waste my time as long as possible, or hoping I make a mistake.

The only difference with respect to what you initially foresaw was: for him it was not sufficient to reach me on the phone, as he did when I unblocked him: he wanted to humiliate me. His condition to pay was for me to go to him and basically apologize. When I did not respond to his text as he wanted, he decided then and there he wanted to wait for my lawsuit and fight.

The only thing is, humiliating myself by going to him was out of the question as far as I am now (I would say that, thank God, even before when I was a very submissive person without understanding it, I would have been incapable of doing such a blatant turnaround). So that was impossible. Because as you say, no money in the world can compensate for humiliation and submission.

On the contrary, I think so far I already got something out of all this, which is infinitely more valuable than the little money he owes me. I got the biggest, so-far missing, chunk of my self-respect back. When I sent him the notice that I would sue, I got back a part of me he had tried to strip out of me for years. Many others had also tried, but he was the best and, paradoxically, also the one who led me to "wake up" and change, because he led me to such lows in despair that I had no other choice than to either have my spirit broken forever, or wake up and fight.

So I think my last message, where I implicitly said "we are on the same plane, and I am more honest than you" (because that was the message) is a success in itself, and he will hate me forever just for reaching this point. All the more because he cannot answer, since he knows I would use it against him.

And now I understand why I wanted to choose the power-move "dear colleague" version against the less empowered one: because more than money, this whole thing was, and has always been, about my self-respect. That's also why I took days to write, change and rewrite the other previous text message to answer his: more than getting my fee, I wanted to get the respect I had always been unable to in the past.

And now I can drop it (but not say anything to him, who will always think I may sue him in the future), or even defer the whole thing to some other time, when I may be even more secure in my profession and on a more level playing field (if I then will want). The "stalemate", I think, assures he will not move for the time being, and probably never do another move with me. I effectively silenced him forever.

And I, at long last, can cry because I demonstrated to myself that he was unsuccessful in destroying my life, and that against all odds I came out of my long years of hell with this person stronger than before.

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#59 · March 15, 2022, 11:10 am

Thank you for the kind words Bel, and rock on, you did reach a vantage point now where the next move is most likely on you, and control of the situation is on you.

I'd still keep the option of pulling the trigger on the table, but no need to rush it and it's not a must -which is what you seem to be doing-.

Ad maiora! :)

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#60 · March 15, 2022, 6:32 pm

Boom. Just boom.

Hats off to you Bel! And the teamwork with Lucio of course!

That's what self-development is about: self-transformation. Now this new, more self-aware version of you will grow even more in self-respect. Because now you "see" when you let others walk on you. So there will still be occurrences when you will lack self-respect. However, because you want to change, they will be less and less.

I was thinking about this yesterday as I got triggered back to my "helpless self". I called a colleague who helped me to take some distance with my flawed perspective and feelings. And today I'm back to my "powerful self". What I can say is that I could see that I used to spend way more time in the "helpless state" and now it's more a 1% of the time, or even less. So it's worth changing our mind patterns. We might fall back into them again but it's worth persevering.

It is an emotional journey within ourself. And it's worth it. And today you won a huge victory. It's a new beginning!

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