Please or Register to create posts and topics.

How to bond over longer distance

12

I’m travelling currently and I met a girl in a city about two months ago. She’s a friends housemate and we met at his small dinner party. She mentioned a boyfriend fairly early on when another girl asked.

She mentioned a dance event the night after and she messaged me the info on Insta. There was attraction at the dance event but she’s very social and she was with her friends so we hung a bit but nothing major was going on for me so I ghosted after an hour.

She plays delay response games which triggers me a bit since I’m more anxious style although I’m working on being secure.

Next day she texted just “hey”, and when I replied something basic she never responded. Later I sent a link to a different kind of dance event. Finally she wrote again three days later and I suggested ocean swimming date but she didn’t respond in time (I was leaving town) and it left there.

About two weeks later I was at the community that she had mentioned at the dinner party so I wrote again something about being there. After like three days of no response I went meta and said something like “I found it odd you texted hey and then never responded for days and I regret bothering now”. She replied something like I’m terrible at texting and the community you’re at is so nice. I had in my mind to give up on texting for calling so I wrote “send me your number and I’ll call you sometime”. I was surprised when she gave the number since she’s so inconsistent.

I tried calling several times a week or so apart with no answer and I figured I needed to go all-in with my intentions. So I texted saying she’s the most inspiring woman I met in years and she made me feel like a man (both true). She wrote back saying my text made her feel very happy and she wants to hear all about my travels and I should let her know when I’m back in the city. I wrote some more including saying her text makes me want to drive back to the city today.  This interaction surprised me and was actually really beautiful.

I’m a bit stuck how to create something from here. She responded strongly to my passion and honesty but she’s not investing at all. She asks questions but doesn’t really give me any information back or is generally inconsistent.

Most recently I tried calling and she wrote back saying she can’t talk she’s at work, and asked what I’m up to. I told her and asked her what her work is. She didn’t respond for a few hours which I probably mistakenly reacted to by saying “Ohh I don’t need to know, am sure you’re the best thing about it ” (an attempt at sidestepping her delay games which have been a fixture throughout even if realistic here with work). She wrote “hahaha I bewitched you or what?” which I interpreted as a negative frame to accept and a challenge and a bit like her wanting to know why I’m being so persistent and interested. I was a bit defensive and abrupt “you’ve divinity and you know it, that’s all”.

Did I accept her frame or restate mine here? Did I lose power? In hindsight humour/flirting probably would have been better but I thought I had to be dismissive (yet consistent) since she thinks I’m only going to shower her with compliments now (and she’s not doing anything now to earn them, just being push-pull).

I’m trying to learn about power dynamics, and dating. My basic query here is am I gaining power in the interaction or not, and whether this is seducing her over time? How can this lead to a romantic interaction either in her city or somewhere closer to me?

Anyone wants to chip in here?

Curious to see how some guys/girls in the community would analyze this, and what they would advice.

Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

I hope I'm not too hard hitting here, but to keep it somewhat short and on point:

These are all indicators that she's not interested:

  • She plays delay response games

  • Next day she texted just “hey”, and when I replied something basic she never responded.

  • Finally she wrote again three days later and I suggested ocean swimming date but she didn’t respond in time (I was leaving town) and it left there.

  • I’m a bit stuck how to create something from here.

  • She’s not investing at all. She asks questions but doesn’t really give me any information back or is generally inconsistent.

  • I tried calling several times a week or so apart with no answer

 

She mentioned a boyfriend fairly early on

And this one already should have really made you stop. It's obviously bad to try to fuck someone elses girlfriend and if you don't care about morals, it likely doesn't make anything easier.

She replied something like I’m terrible at texting and the community you’re at is so nice.

Would have been funny to say "yes that's true" because it could apply to both of her statements. But this wouldn't have saved anything, it's long overdue to move on.

 

So I texted saying she’s the most inspiring woman I met in years and she made me feel like a man (both true)

You shoot some enormous bullets there, but if you validate her when she doesn't treat you well or doesn't invest anything, you are basically validating bad or unhelpful behavior.

Imagine someone randomly sitting next to you in a train who starts obsessing about you and getting really thirsty for your attention, and whatever you do (looking away, checking your phone), they not only don't stop but get more extreme and desperate in complimenting and opening up to you. What would that communicate?

 

I probably mistakenly reacted to by saying “Ohh I don’t need to know, am sure you’re the best thing about it ”

When was the last time a woman said something like this to you? This is again extreme validation, in response to her not even responding to you. Do you see how extreme the difference between your and her investment is? She looses all attraction and respect for you if she hasn't already at this point.

 

“you’ve divinity and you know it, that’s all”

Big fat Oof. You shouldn't throw stuff like this on someone who doesn't even consistently answer a fucking text.
I never came across a woman that I would say something like this to ever, and I'm sure I never will. All this communicates is that you are very, very thirsty and very impressed while getting no investment from her. Extremely unattractive from her perspective, except for the free validation, which is probably the sole reason she throws a grain of interest once in a while towards you. And that's all it takes to keep you completely hooked.

Did I accept her frame or restate mine here?

I think you validated hers as much as possible.

 

I wrote some more including saying her text makes me want to drive back to the city today.

All you communicate is "I'm so thirsty I would drive a huge amount for some random woman who throws some text at me". This way you reliably kill all attraction that may have once been there.

 

There are some good things as well, for example you found a great source for social dynamics and you are aware of some crucial basics, like her not really investing in the interaction.

I would suggest to you to think about the reality of fucking some other guys girlfriend, and reading about the fundamentals. You will find great articles here. I wouldn't worry too much about frames at this point, it might be confusing if the basement isn't solid yet.

Lucio Buffalmano and ELKOUHLANI have reacted to this post.
Lucio BuffalmanoELKOUHLANI

Hi the_critic

Thanks for the input. I agree with almost everything you say here except mainly the part about someone else’s boyfriend- she never said this to me and nowadays people have all kinds of relationships, it’s all fashioned in my opinion to assume until you’re exposed to it directly or she mentions it directly. Your moralising is old fashioned.

Try statement about divinity was intended to remain consistent with my earlier comment but was intended to be dismissive.

 

I agree she’s basically giving no investment and any continued investment from me goes no where.

Thank you

I would say to

  • Put a pause on messaging
  • Post pictures conveying a fun, social lifestyle on Instagram (I infer that she follows you on Instagram from your post)
  • Ping her on her birthday
  • After a period of time, plan how you can "appear" in her city and propose a meet-up

I think that she lost interest and has a boyfriend, so it will be a uphill battle.
It could be easier to pursue other women while keeping the door open with Instagram.

These 2 articles seem relevant in your situation:

How to Use FB To Recover From Disastrous First Date
How To Get a Girl With a Boyfriend: A Real-Life Guide (W/ Examples)

The anxious style seems to make you chase too hard.
I think Lucio's articles on developing personal power would help.
In my opinion, the growth mindset, anti-fragile ego and enlightened individualism mentalities can help one to be less anxious in general.

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
Quote from hunter on June 6, 2021, 3:40 am

he part about someone else’s boyfriend- she never said this to me and nowadays people have all kinds of relationships, it’s all fashioned in my opinion to assume until you’re exposed to it directly or she mentions it directly.

Yeah when she hasn't told you herself it's a bit different I agree, usually she would mention it at some point.

Your moralising is old fashioned.

If expressing reasonable moral standards now is supposed to be something bad and "old fashioned", that's a future I don't want to be part of, that's for sure.

I have no control over your actions, what I can try to do however is make you aware of the actions you commit, and how you are responsible for the outcomes. That's something I didn't think too much about years ago and that can lead to a lot of regret.
A while ago I witnessed it first hand what a man who found out about another man is capable of, and it is nothing you ever want to face. I for one simply don't want to do this to anyone, especially if it all can be avoided.

 

Anyway, I think you're at a good spot if you can easily face possibly hard to stomach feedback and act upon it to improve your situation, that's a necessary basis for fast and consistent improvement.

 

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano

Already plenty of good points here.

As a general overview: your courtship method so far broke most of the standard dating principles as well as the power principles.

THE UGLY

Such as, there was:

  • Very strong chasing
  • Pedestalizing
  • Double texting
  • Little or no screening
  • Rewarding poor behavior
  • One-sided reward-giving

If you had posted this on most dating forum, guys would have jumped at your throat saying you're being a doormat.

And, in several ways... They'd have a point.

Especially the "you make me feel like a man" and "I don't need to know, I'm sure you're the best thing about it" are way over the top.

THE GOOD

On TPM though we know that this method of pursuing is one of those "atypical seduction strategies" that can work... For certain people and in certain situations.

And when they work, they often lead to the best and most passionate romances -and, sometimes, worst heartbreaks-.

Casanova often resorted to this style of pedestalizing and "wearing one's heart on the sleeves".
And so did several other seducers who chased -and got- women while idolizing them.

If we're talking about "increasing the odds", this was a good move, for example, and it showed good potential:

I figured I needed to go all-in with my intentions. So I texted saying she’s the most inspiring woman I met in years and she made me feel like a man (both true). She wrote back saying my text made her feel very happy and she wants to hear all about my travels and I should let her know when I’m back in the city.

If you wanted to increase the odds, you should have started building a vision together that included a dream that is both a dream, and a plan.

A romance can't be kept going forever unless it eventually turns into something real.

So you don't wanna be that guy who updates about his travels.

You want to be the guy who takes her along. Takes her to an alternative world, away from the humdrum of her life.
A dream that can become true.
Then swoop in, and make it happen.
Not all women respond strongly to that, but those who do... They fall hard.

THE CAVEAT TO THE GOOD

However... That initial strong reply fizzled.

And wearing one's heart upon one's sleeves is usually best done in person.
It truly starts working when the woman is also somewhat reciprocating and/or enjoying the process.

Chasing Taken Women: Power Dynamics

Endless pedestalizing of a woman with a boyfriend is risky.

She's got a guy who's having sex with her... Possibly without pedestalizing her.

That doesn't bode well as a comparison unless you can self-frame yourself as of a somewhat different league.

If it's simply "guy chasing me, boyfriend having me", the winner is easy.
So it must be "guy providing a dream alternative, boyfriend part of the humdrum".

It's not easy to walk that line, and it's easier to do it wrong, than to do it right.

There is a real risk that the lady is giving a little tidbit here and there just to string the pursuer along, so that she can keep getting her validation.

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

OFF-TOPIC

And a note on morals, let's continue on another thread if anyone wants to dig further.

MORALS

I think girls in a relationship are a grey area that can swing in either direction.

On one way, an individual has the right to choose the best they can get and/or the person they like most.
And should the fact that someone is already dating them preclude them from that right?

It's a moot point.

There are also cases of patently poor partners, be it men or women, who are not adding much value to people's lives -or actively taking value-.
In those cases, by presenting yourself as a better option, you're doing a favor to both of you.
In the case of a true value-taker, say, an abusive man, taking her away is a great thing, in my opinion.
And if he was just an average guy, then the question becomes: should you leave two people worse off to protect a third party? Moot point and grey area, but not an obvious "nasty thing to do", in my opinion.

On the other hand, it's also true that there are plenty of cases in which taking a taken individual only adds grief to all parties.
But there isn't always a way to know for sure in advance -unless one is planning to just bang and drop the taken individual, which doesn't seem to be the case here-.

There are though a few ways of assessing the situation:

  • Is she in love with the guy?
  • Can you offer a better alternative / life?
  • Is she proud of her boyfriend, or never mentioning it, hiding it?

If she doesn't mention him much, she's probably only half-heartedly in it.
Then those become those grey area cases where two people might be better off with a new relationship (at the cost of one).

I personally do would feel bad for the party who's left behind.
And the whole thing certainly doesn't leave me enamored of what's happened.
But from a utilitarian perspective, the net accounting over 3 people might be positive.

HOW MORALS MATTER EVEN TO AMORAL FOLKS

Even if one doesn't care for morals though, they still matter, even for the wholly selfish individual.
People with strong morals tend to make for better partners, allies, friends.
If they show poor morals when they get together with you... Well, that might not the best sign, is it?

OFF-TOPIC

Matthew Whitewood has reacted to this post.
Matthew Whitewood
Have you read the forum guidelines for effective communication already?

Thanks Lucio. The reason I approached her this way is because she told me that she needs passion in romance. She’s South American and a dancer so it’s coming from the culture. So I was pretty intent on showing a capacity to be that way and it’s actually very rare in Anglo men/society.

I think the idea of the shared vision is absolutely key, thanks for sharing that. I’d have done well to integrate it.

Thanks to everyone else that pitched in it’s really helpful.

I think for me it’s about the basics on power and sense of self (not being needy like double texting which different to passion).

Regarding her I’m just going to leave it for now and see what’s happening when I go back to the city.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on June 7, 2021, 8:35 am

Off Topic

I don't want to dig further but say:

Thank you for pointing out the other aspects and possibilities in meeting someone who is currently in a relationship one has to think of. I simply thought when a woman says she's in a relationship, she's in a great one, probably because I wouldn't be in one if it weren't a great one, so I was projecting.

But yes, I had a tunnel vision and didn't think of the other possibilities, like her being in a bad or even abusive one, and that's totally another side to consider, so my point about "reasonable moral standarts" was one-sided and biased.

Thanks for making this clear and also giving ways to assess the situation – great post in itself by the way even if it's OT for this topic. And sorry about leading to this OT in the first place.

Off Topic

 

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.
Lucio Buffalmano
12
Processing...