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Lucio's journal

#71 · March 20, 2021, 10:22 am

Very interesting insight! I have made this mistake before.
I thought that, by saying "I've done that", it builds rapport.
Then I realised that it's not optimal because I should build the other person up first.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 20, 2021, 8:28 am
Let People Gush, Don't Kill Them With "I've Done That"
You don't need to lie, you can totally say you've done something.
But a better way of doing it:
You: Oh so cool, I've done that in X some time ago, how was it?
Notice:
"Oh so cool" build up the receiver and keeps the momentum
"I've done that in X" sets you up for sharing your own experience later on, developing rapport and connection
"How was it" gives space for the speaker to keep on speaking, and gives them carte blanche to "brag", gush, or do whatever they wanted to do. as a matter of fact, the more you allow them to do what they wanted to do, the more they will like you, and the more they will seek you

It is interesting how one sentence can have so much dynamics inside.

Sometimes if the person seems to feel really keen on sharing, I phrase this in a way like

Me: Oh, so cool. I have had a similar experience in X. Seems like we have quite a bit in common. How was it?

To avoid sounding like I'm in a race with the other person.

#72 · March 21, 2021, 12:07 am

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 20, 2021, 10:22 am
Sometimes if the person seems to feel really keen on sharing, I phrase this in a way like
Me: Oh, so cool. I have had a similar experience in X. Seems like we have quite a bit in common. How was it?
To avoid sounding like I'm in a race with the other person.

A step better, but with the risk that you might come across like you're forcing it.

When you're sharing experiencing and letting others gush, you're already building a ton of rapport and going extra fast towards increased closeness.

Spelling it out so directly might sound like you're overdoing it-cheeky, and might even raise some "suspicion" in suspicious folks-.

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#73 · March 21, 2021, 2:43 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 21, 2021, 12:07 am
Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 20, 2021, 10:22 am
Sometimes if the person seems to feel really keen on sharing, I phrase this in a way like
Me: Oh, so cool. I have had a similar experience in X. Seems like we have quite a bit in common. How was it?
To avoid sounding like I'm in a race with the other person.
A step better, but with the risk that you might come across like you're forcing it.
When you're sharing experiencing and letting others gush, you're already building a ton of rapport and going extra fast towards increased closeness.
Spelling it out so directly might sound like you're overdoing it-cheeky, and might even raise some "suspicion" in suspicious folks-.

Oh I see, I never thought that by letting other people gush, you are already building rapport.
I realised sometimes I do try to force rapport too much.
I think sometimes showing that you understand and build them up is enough.

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#74 · March 21, 2021, 6:33 am

Interesting. The standard networking advice is look for communalities e.g. same college. So is doing that ok?

But in this circumstance they re already building the rapport for you so safest to just keep prompting the?.

#75 · March 24, 2021, 5:24 am

Quote from Transitioned on March 21, 2021, 6:33 am
Interesting. The standard networking advice is look for communalities e.g. same college. So is doing that ok?
But in this circumstance they re already building the rapport for you so safest to just keep prompting the?.

The simple answer would be that if communinalities feel natural and add value, then do look for them.

If it feels stilted, as if you were hunting for "me too" moments, then chances are it is.

In that example, the commonality was flow-stopping, constricting, and competitive.
It left me frustrated, with nothing else to add, and created bad ill-feelings towards her.

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#76 · March 24, 2021, 5:36 am

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 24, 2021, 5:36 am
She un-connect on Linkedin (and withdrew her endorsement)!
Today I just realized that a Linkedin connection of mine un-connected.
And, most important, she withdrew the very flattering recommendation she had left me -"she", might not be a coincidence, in my experience it's far more often women who take the time to unfriend / un-connect on networking sites-.
I'd be really curious to know why, but probably not going to be vulnerable enough to reach out and ask her directly.
And if I had to guess, it might be because of the description I have about my work experience in her former employer.
My description is not very flattering to the employer (and she was in HR), including a description of consultant work as 1/3 comprised of "dozing off" during meeetings.
I wasn't lying though.
Many people in the meetings I was in were spending a good chunk of the time doing something meeting unrelated.
And many people in the line organization also saw no real value in the consultants' presentations. That's what I had clearly observed.
Potentially especially bad for her, I had written about getting the job offer:
In spite of knowing little -if at all- about IT, I was in.
Also there, in many ways, I was being honest.
I knew little -if at all- of IT. And the core business were services and projects around IT infrastructures, so it was a relevant information.
However, that frame feels predatory and win-lose. As if I had "out-smarted" the company / recruiters. And her being in the recruitment team and the first one to contact me, she might have taken it personally.
If that's the reason why, I can't blame her, and my initial description was probably too crude.
I know amended it to:
For his level of skills at the time, he did great, and he was in.
That removed any reference to me not knowing much abut IT, which also removes the win-lose and "I got you" feel to it.
Coincidentally, I also had a snapshot of her reference though, which I had taken as evidence/example for Career University. And I re-uploaded on Linkedin. I might remove it though out of respect for her decision.

She un-connect on Linkedin (and withdrew her endorsement)!

Today I just realized that a Linkedin connection of mine un-connected.

And, most important, she withdrew the very flattering recommendation she had left me -"she", might not be a coincidence, in my experience it's far more often women who take the time to unfriend / un-connect on networking sites-.

I'd be really curious to know why, but probably not going to be vulnerable enough to reach out and ask her directly.

And if I had to guess, it might be because of the description I have about my work experience in her former employer.
My description is not very flattering to the employer (and she was in HR), including a description of consultant work as 1/3 comprised of "dozing off" during meeetings.

I wasn't lying though.
Many people in the meetings I was in were spending a good chunk of the time doing something meeting unrelated.
And many people in the line organization also saw no real value in the consultants' presentations. That's what I had clearly observed.

Potentially especially bad for her, I had written about getting the job offer:

In spite of knowing little -if at all- about IT, I was in.

Also there, in many ways, I was being honest.
I knew little -if at all- of IT. And the core business were services and projects around IT infrastructures, so it was a relevant information.

However, that frame feels predatory and win-lose. As if I had "out-smarted" the company / recruiters. And her being in the recruitment team and the first one to contact me, she might have taken it personally.
If that's the reason why, I can't blame her, and my initial description was probably too crude.

I know amended it to:

For his level of skills at the time, he did great, and he was in.

That removed any reference to me not knowing much abut IT, which also removes the win-lose and "I got you" feel to it.

Coincidentally, I also had a snapshot of her reference though, which I had taken as evidence/example for Career University. And I re-uploaded on Linkedin. I might remove it though out of respect for her decision.

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#77 · March 24, 2021, 2:39 pm

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 24, 2021, 2:39 pm
My personal opinion is that it's nothing personal.
And it's because of what you mentioned about her being in human resources (HR).
It's a conflict of interest or more like diverging interests at this point.
The difference in interests
You would like to provide honest reviews of companies and working environments so customers and potential candidates can make an informed decision on the company.
She is an HR and probably has metrics to present a good image & hire certain people for the company.
My Main Guess Stems from This Observation
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 24, 2021, 5:36 am
In spite of knowing little -if at all- about IT, I was in.
I know amended it to:
For his level of skills at the time, he did great, and he was in.
That removed any reference to me not knowing much abut IT, which also removes the win-lose and "I got you" feel to it.
She handled this quite professionally in my opinion.
Changing the meaning not completely but to suit her own professional interests of portraying the company in a positive light.
Another Possible Reason - She Hit the Upper Connection Limit of 30,000 LinkedIn Connections
I think there's another very possible reason.
As a human resource professional, she probably spends quite some time on LinkedIn sourcing for candidates and cleaning up people who are not relevant towards her professional interests.
LinkedIn has an upper limit of 30,000 connections.
If she is someone who has been recruiting for quite a long, she probably may hit this upper limit of 30,000 connections.
As such, she may simply be making way for new connections relevant to her metrics and the positions that she needs to hire for.
In addition to LinkedIn Premium, recruiters post regularly on their personal page to attract the right candidates into the company.
In this case, it's really nothing personal.
You are no longer relevant to this company and her interests.
As such, she would like to place her focus on other candidates.
Whether To Reach Out To Clarify
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 24, 2021, 5:36 am
And, most important, she withdrew the very flattering recommendation she had left me -"she", might not be a coincidence, in my experience it's far more often women who take the time to unfriend / un-connect on networking sites-.
I'd be really curious to know why, but probably not going to be vulnerable enough to reach out and ask her directly.
I'm not sure about your relationship with this woman.
If the professional/personal relationship has been quite important and there are some overlapping interests, I think dropping a message to clarify would not be out of place.
Maybe we are no longer professionally relevant to each other.
Or I could have said something which presented us to have diverging interests.
In that case, I would like to clarify.
Although because of ..., I would like to stay in touch and continue exploring opportunities with you from time to time.

My personal opinion is that it's nothing personal.
And it's because of what you mentioned about her being in human resources (HR).
It's a conflict of interest or more like diverging interests at this point.

The difference in interests

You would like to provide honest reviews of companies and working environments so customers and potential candidates can make an informed decision on the company.
She is an HR and probably has metrics to present a good image & hire certain people for the company.

My Main Guess Stems from This Observation

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 24, 2021, 5:36 am
In spite of knowing little -if at all- about IT, I was in.
I know amended it to:
For his level of skills at the time, he did great, and he was in.
That removed any reference to me not knowing much abut IT, which also removes the win-lose and "I got you" feel to it.

She handled this quite professionally in my opinion.
Changing the meaning not completely but to suit her own professional interests of portraying the company in a positive light.

Another Possible Reason - She Hit the Upper Connection Limit of 30,000 LinkedIn Connections

I think there's another very possible reason.

As a human resource professional, she probably spends quite some time on LinkedIn sourcing for candidates and cleaning up people who are not relevant towards her professional interests.
LinkedIn has an upper limit of 30,000 connections.
If she is someone who has been recruiting for quite a long, she probably may hit this upper limit of 30,000 connections.

As such, she may simply be making way for new connections relevant to her metrics and the positions that she needs to hire for.
In addition to LinkedIn Premium, recruiters post regularly on their personal page to attract the right candidates into the company.

In this case, it's really nothing personal.
You are no longer relevant to this company and her interests.
As such, she would like to place her focus on other candidates.

Whether To Reach Out To Clarify

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 24, 2021, 5:36 am
And, most important, she withdrew the very flattering recommendation she had left me -"she", might not be a coincidence, in my experience it's far more often women who take the time to unfriend / un-connect on networking sites-.
I'd be really curious to know why, but probably not going to be vulnerable enough to reach out and ask her directly.

I'm not sure about your relationship with this woman.
If the professional/personal relationship has been quite important and there are some overlapping interests, I think dropping a message to clarify would not be out of place.

Maybe we are no longer professionally relevant to each other.
Or I could have said something which presented us to have diverging interests.
In that case, I would like to clarify.
Although because of ..., I would like to stay in touch and continue exploring opportunities with you from time to time.

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#78 · March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm

Matthew: She handled this quite professionally in my opinion.
Changing the meaning not completely but to suit her own professional interests of portraying the company in a positive light.

Yeah, I miss-communicated there, the change was my own change :).

Matthew: It's a conflict of interest or more like diverging interests at this point.

Yes, great observation.

Also, a bit deeper and darker.

I have a business-related, vested interest in publicly showing that power dynamics and social skills can help you achieve results even when you have little skills or domain knowledge.
So me saying "I got the job in spite of the fact I knew little to nothing of IT" can be good marketing for me business-wise, while being bad for them.
Thre is a choice there to make then: preserve the relationship, or go all out?

I think even here, it's not that black and white though.
Presenting life events with a frame of you "circumventing the system", just makes you look like a dick -and a proud value-taker-. And especially so when it reflects bad on others.

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#79 · March 25, 2021, 6:19 pm

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 25, 2021, 6:19 pm
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm
Also, a bit deeper and darker.
I have a business-related, vested interest in publicly showing that power dynamics and social skills can help you achieve results even when you have little skills or domain knowledge.
So me saying "I got the job in spite of the fact I knew little to nothing of IT" can be good marketing for me business-wise, while being bad for them.
There is a choice there to make then: preserve the relationship, or go all out?
In my opinion, it's value-adding on a whole.
This is my view on the objective value added to the business ecosystem rather than the ethics of expressing such an opinion.
I would not want to outsource my IT to an IT company with the culture or hiring process that you described.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm
I think even here, it's not that black and white though.
Presenting life events with a frame of you "circumventing the system", just makes you look like a dick -and a proud value-taker-. And especially so when it reflects bad on others.
I think this could be a wake-up call to improve their hiring processes.
Very bad public relations, but the senior management should have seen that post and do something about their culture & hiring process.
I am on the same page that adding a bit more tact is always safer for a public review.
If not, people will interpret that you have an agenda when leaving a bad review.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm
So me saying "I got the job in spite of the fact I knew little to nothing of IT" can be good marketing for me business-wise, while being bad for them.
There is a choice there to make then: preserve the relationship, or go all out?
This is a grey area.
I guess we could strike in the middle with the latter comment "For his level of skills at the time, he did great, and he was in.".
Sometimes I ask myself this question and need to think quite hard.
If the relationship is not helping in achieving your purpose, should you preserve the relationship?

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm
Also, a bit deeper and darker.
I have a business-related, vested interest in publicly showing that power dynamics and social skills can help you achieve results even when you have little skills or domain knowledge.
So me saying "I got the job in spite of the fact I knew little to nothing of IT" can be good marketing for me business-wise, while being bad for them.
There is a choice there to make then: preserve the relationship, or go all out?

In my opinion, it's value-adding on a whole.
This is my view on the objective value added to the business ecosystem rather than the ethics of expressing such an opinion.
I would not want to outsource my IT to an IT company with the culture or hiring process that you described.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm
I think even here, it's not that black and white though.
Presenting life events with a frame of you "circumventing the system", just makes you look like a dick -and a proud value-taker-. And especially so when it reflects bad on others.

I think this could be a wake-up call to improve their hiring processes.
Very bad public relations, but the senior management should have seen that post and do something about their culture & hiring process.

I am on the same page that adding a bit more tact is always safer for a public review.
If not, people will interpret that you have an agenda when leaving a bad review.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on March 25, 2021, 4:11 pm
So me saying "I got the job in spite of the fact I knew little to nothing of IT" can be good marketing for me business-wise, while being bad for them.
There is a choice there to make then: preserve the relationship, or go all out?

This is a grey area.
I guess we could strike in the middle with the latter comment "For his level of skills at the time, he did great, and he was in.".

Sometimes I ask myself this question and need to think quite hard.
If the relationship is not helping in achieving your purpose, should you preserve the relationship?

Lucio Buffalmano has reacted to this post.

#80 · March 25, 2021, 7:47 pm

Quote from Matthew Whitewood on March 25, 2021, 6:19 pm
In my opinion, it's value-adding on a whole.
This is my view on the objective value added to the business ecosystem rather than the ethics of expressing such an opinion.
I would not want to outsource my IT to an IT company with the culture or hiring process that you described
I think this could be a wake-up call to improve their hiring processes.
Very bad public relations, but the senior management should have seen that post and do something about their culture & hiring process.
I am on the same page that adding a bit more tact is always safer for a public review.
If not, people will interpret that you have an agenda when leaving a bad review.
If the relationship is not helping in achieving your purpose, should you preserve the relationship?

All very good points, Matthew.

In terms of value-adding or not, I was focusing on what it meant to her, the individual, rather than the greater scheme of things and the majority of people.

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