Quote from Power Duck on November 28, 2023, 11:15 pm

Defending from multiple individuals attacking.

Since defending against power moves usually requires the bystanders to either side with you or not take sides at all, if one finds himself in a group that pulls "jokes" or power moves on him he may see that he can't properly defend against those moves (if he stays in that group) since he:

1. Can't isolate the target from the group by using a 2nd party to attack the aggressor. (E.g: man is your friend always so noisy?) Since the 2nd party may team up with the initial attacker.
2. Any self defense attempts may be shut down by multiple individuals speaking over/ridiculizing the victim.
3. Any attempt to frame the attack as something more serious may be discarded by the whole group, possibly making the dynamic even worse.

For that reason finding allies and taking distance from  takers is so useful, when the aggressor sees that the target has another individuals that may team up with him or be used to isolate/negatively frame the aggressor they cease their attacks and could even start liking/behaving nicely with the former victim.

Another possibility is to turn down the warmth and dial up the dominance so the attackers and the group could feel intimidated or more reluctant to attack the target while also diminishing opportunities to be attacked. (Will have to try this.)

I believe that if the aggressor makes the group like him more than they like you the target, it may be game over for the most part. A possible strategy in that case could be to decrease the warmth and pull subtler power moves that most people won't be able to spot, with time that will give you power over the aggressor, hence he probably won't attack because of fear/intimidation/respect.

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 3:22 am

Today I went and met with two female friends (the ones that told me that it looked as if they knew me from more than they actually did) to hang out and spend time during the night with. I didn't knew who was going to be there and how much time. I wasn't ready when they told me, since it was without notice and I wasn't home at the moment, so I had to spend a bit of time to get ready and go to their house, around an hour, plus 40 minutes to get there since they're on a town right next to the city.

At the beggining it was cool, there was another guy I already knew. They had finished a project on the evening and basically had invited me to hang out nothing nothing weird. We went to one of their flats and asked for pizza, two other guys were coming too, they didn't know we were there. A bit strange.

Those guys were low quality folks I already knew from college, a pair of takers, not hard to deal with them in college. When they arrived things changed, it looked as the other guy and I were being ignored pretty often, I managed to deal with it to minimize the power loss, but I committed dumb mistakes, the other guy didn't minimize at all. They asked a question to him whose response they knew wasn't going to be positive, two of them (a girl and the a guy) whispered from time to time between them, talked in Whatsapp about Guy (I saw it in a phone, while I glanced with discretion), and some of these things happened:

Guy: man I'm tired

Taker1: good, that way you'll shut up

Everyone doing their thing/watching tv/watching their phone

PD: how nice

Guy: yeah

This caught me by surprise, had this been in college and Taker1 would've been already thrown under the bus.

I didn't expect both of those girls not to say anything, but, thinking better it doesn't surprise me, they sometimes virtue signal, so they're unaware of their dark side. Easier for them to fall prey to it.

Taker1 also pulled minor power moves on me, such as judge power moves, and/or ignoring me when I'm referring to him, or framing me negatively. He succeeded in most of his attempts, and I know the reason, pretty easy: "I didn't want to use my skills to the fullest there, since I thought that maybe I could ruin the mood" and Im getting into the habit of not responding to certain power moves since some people dont like how I check the less obvious ones. I'll deal with this, that's a given.

Now I know better, I don't really care about it, I come first. Always.

Another power move:

Girls: were going to sleep

Taker1: which bed do we sleep on?

........

Taker1: we wouldn't have come here if we  hadn't had a bed to sleep.

Guy and I were supposed to sleep on the sofa, we arrived before those guys, and weren't told about sleeping there, the two girls and Guy even convinced me to stay since I wanted to go my home to play a bit and drop off to sleep there.

(So, I was convinced to stay to sleep because I would have fun: conversations were boring we didn't watch a single movie since their attention spans are horrible and they couldnt reach a consensus and conversations were even worse.)

This was completely unnecessary and really nasty, and that guy better prepares himself because I can and will give him sht back. Won't be that hard anyway.

I'm really disappointed and feel hurt with those two girls, I thought they were cool, but I suppose they only treated me well because I behaved dominantly and they liked my jokes. What a sh*t. Now here I am, awake at 3 am in their flat because there are no buses or trains that take me to the city at this hour, and the only way to access the city is via a bridge, which you can't pass walking. And I'm not sleeping in a house of idiots, I rather be the whole night awake.

It's funny, each time I start thinking that people can have a good side and that you can relax and have fun the same happens: I remember this lesson the hard way, it doesn't matter who it is, they always will show you their worst once you allow them or put your guard down. Which doesn't surprise me, they all pull power moves, the only difference is that now I take them as jokes and I respond correctly to them.

I'm glad I've decided to put myself first and remove from them the satisfaction of saying: he slept in the sofa.

I've found a way to stop wasting time not so long ago. I'll give it lots of use, specially now. I know how to get power, and the more I experience with people now that I have better skills the more I want, and the more I realize that for better of worse, if I don't have power my life will be full of unnecessary sufferings. I'm not taking that path, that's a given.

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 3:53 am

P.S:

The reason I care so much and feel so hurt is because of the psychological effects of being disempowered and because of the time investment. Otherwise I wouldn't care in the least.

From now on I won't adapt to their low quality frames to defend, if the takers dont like it or try to laugh at me for thinking in a high quality manner they will get what they deserve. I may be very sociable, but I rather be alone rather than surrounded by chumps. If I'm scared of dampening the mood for being high quality it's time to look for better friends or to get my shit straight.

Quote from John Freeman on December 2, 2023, 9:51 am

Hey Power Duck,

These experiences are inevitable as a young adult. Everybody goes through the same ones. You learn who's your friend and who's not. Who's worth associating with and who's not. I don't think one can cut off any of this learning curve.

So I would see it as one more under your belt. Now you know another type of assholes and how they look like. Totally normal of the learning process. It happened to me the exact same type of experiences and I know many others who did.

Probably the girls were pretty.

And yes, better be alone than associate with assholes/dicks. Because they eat away at one's confidence/self-esteem. Then it's more difficult to fit and rise in any group as they've taken something from us. And that thing is more valuable than a short time of low quality entertainment.

So I think that what is important is to know your value. And not associating yourself with anyone who does not show certain qualities. It's possible for instance to make a list of the desired qualities of the people you allow around you as acquaintances/friends. Being positive could be such a quality. Not gossiping could be another. Basically a filter that allows you to have normal positive people around you. They don't have to be super sexy/successful/enlightened people only. But add rather than take.

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 1:52 pm

Thanks John.

Now that I've rested and all the emotions are partly away I see more clearly the things that I did wrong. And I agree, it's part of the process.

Probably the girls were pretty.

They were good looking yes, not stunning, but enough to get plenty of men flirting with them throw social media and in real life. In fact a professor (a rather old one) also flirts with them and says some things that could make him lose his job (all this in private with them via email or when they ask lessons in private). They both tell all those things to every person close to being a friend, yet they keep talking with him, and sending tiktok videos to him. It's clear that they love the attention and the drama related to it.

So I think that what is important is to know your value. And not associating yourself with anyone who does not show certain qualities. It's possible for instance to make a list of the desired qualities of the people you allow around you as acquaintances/friends. Being positive could be such a quality. Not gossiping could be another. Basically a filter that allows you to have normal positive people around you. They don't have to be super sexy/successful/enlightened people only. But add rather than take.

Thanks for that too John.

I think I may do that, I haven't found many people like that in college though, but that's the thing, most people nowadays seem to be takers in a way of another. Since I can tell the difference between takers and givers most of the time, I'll use that to my advantage.

I agree with the rest of the things you say.

Cheers.

Quote from B on December 2, 2023, 1:54 pm

Hi Power Duck,

I agree with John that it's all good learning, and we've all been there.

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 3:22 am

Today I went and met with two female friends (the ones that told me that it looked as if they knew me from more than they actually did) to hang out and spend time during the night with. I didn't knew who was going to be there and how much time. I wasn't ready when they told me, since it was without notice and I wasn't home at the moment, so I had to spend a bit of time to get ready and go to their house, around an hour, plus 40 minutes to get there since they're on a town right next to the city.

Here, if you went with the personal understanding that you would be nothing more than friends, it was ok.

But if you had the idea that hanging out as a group could lead to dating one of these girls, then the guideline is: no group dates whatsoever in the first months of meeting a woman who you want to date.

You want to propose (and accept) only one-on-one dates.

If you instead go and propose, or accept, a group meeting (meaning: anything more than just her), there are inevitably going to be blockers.

Only proposing or accepting one on one dates also screens out manipulative women who have no intention of dating the man.

On this:

Now here I am, awake at 3 am in their flat because there are no buses or trains that take me to the city at this hour, and the only way to access the city is via a bridge, which you can't pass walking.

This is one that I also learned at my personal expense before-TMP: never ever ever accept going into a situation where you don't know people, and you don't have a potential early way out.

Some people engineer for others to be blocked for a chunk of time to be able to power move knowing the other person has no way out.

Then they purposely mellow at the end.

To avoid this, you want to always have a way to extricate yourself in advance if things get nasty.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 2, 2023, 5:05 pm

Yeah, +1 to the above 2 gentlemen as in "all experience".

All good experience, I'd add, even if it seems bad while you're living it.

Some random notes about what I thought while going through it:

• Don't expect women to police for high-quality and "no asshole rules". Especially not young ones. After all, to women a high-power asshole is better than a pushover (and for good reasons. It's also one of the reasons TPM exists). That's on you and/or the minoirty of high-quality men
• You CAN play the one-upping game sometimes. That's how it goes among younger men and how status is often negotiated. You don't need to start flying higher from the beginning. You can get there in some years -and the one-upping game is good experience anyway-
• Very possible they liked you because you showed some social dominance/power, good call/analysis. No reason to be angry about that, it's just how things go
• Low-quality people are still a good experience, so you learn how to deal with everyone. Later on you say "better alone than with assholes", which is indeed 100% true

OFF-TOPIC:

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 1:52 pm

(...)
In fact a professor (a rather old one) also flirts with them and says some things that could make him lose his job (all this in private with them via email or when they ask lessons in private). They both tell all those things to every person close to being a friend, yet they keep talking with him, and sending tiktok videos to him. It's clear that they love the attention and the drama related to it.

Crazy story in the "craziness of everyday normal life" type of crazy.

Reminded me of a story I had even forgotten.

My brother was quite poor in school.
The last senior year though he had the principal who helped me pass and "put a good word" for him.

My brother didn't do any particular strategizing to even "earn" that though.

All he did was... To catch him while having sex with a student on an off-road street where he had parked his car to proceed undisturbed (my brother had an enduro bike and he liked to explore hidden paths and places).

So the principal wanted him happy and out as soon as possible :D :S .

OFF-TOPIC

Quote from Power Duck on December 9, 2023, 1:08 pm

Quote from Bel on December 2, 2023, 1:54 pm

Hi Power Duck,

I agree with John that it's all good learning, and we've all been there.

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 3:22 am

Today I went and met with two female friends (the ones that told me that it looked as if they knew me from more than they actually did) to hang out and spend time during the night with. I didn't knew who was going to be there and how much time. I wasn't ready when they told me, since it was without notice and I wasn't home at the moment, so I had to spend a bit of time to get ready and go to their house, around an hour, plus 40 minutes to get there since they're on a town right next to the city.

Here, if you went with the personal understanding that you would be nothing more than friends, it was ok.

But if you had the idea that hanging out as a group could lead to dating one of these girls, then the guideline is: no group dates whatsoever in the first months of meeting a woman who you want to date.

You want to propose (and accept) only one-on-one dates.

If you instead go and propose, or accept, a group meeting (meaning: anything more than just her), there are inevitably going to be blockers.

Only proposing or accepting one on one dates also screens out manipulative women who have no intention of dating the man.

On this:

Now here I am, awake at 3 am in their flat because there are no buses or trains that take me to the city at this hour, and the only way to access the city is via a bridge, which you can't pass walking.

This is one that I also learned at my personal expense before-TMP: never ever ever accept going into a situation where you don't know people, and you don't have a potential early way out.

Some people engineer for others to be blocked for a chunk of time to be able to power move knowing the other person has no way out.

Then they purposely mellow at the end.

To avoid this, you want to always have a way to extricate yourself in advance if things get nasty.

Thanks Bel.

This is one that I also learned at my personal expense before-TMP: never ever ever accept going into a situation where you don't know people, and you don't have a potential early way out.

Some people engineer for others to be blocked for a chunk of time to be able to power move knowing the other person has no way out.

Then they purposely mellow at the end.

To avoid this, you want to always have a way to extricate yourself in advance if things get nasty.

I find this interesting, maybe one of the reasons I wasn't as dominant as I usually am, is because I subconsciously thought that if I created a dispute with one of the guys I could be left out of the house. Which is funny because in the end, I didn't slept in that house at all, around 5 am I went out and spent 2 hours walking and waiting for the bus in the town that was right next to the one I was at in order to go to the city, ( I wasnt going to give those mfs the satisfaction of saying "You slept on a shitty sofa, I slept on a comfy bed")

But yeah, lesson learned, thanks for pointing that out, now its more clear: "Always have a way out when spending time with low quality folks/folks you barely know".

Cheers.

Quote from Power Duck on December 9, 2023, 1:27 pm

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on December 2, 2023, 5:05 pm

Yeah, +1 to the above 2 gentlemen as in "all experience".

All good experience, I'd add, even if it seems bad while you're living it.

Some random notes about what I thought while going through it:

• Don't expect women to police for high-quality and "no asshole rules". Especially not young ones. After all, to women a high-power asshole is better than a pushover (and for good reasons. It's also one of the reasons TPM exists). That's on you and/or the minoirty of high-quality men
• You CAN play the one-upping game sometimes. That's how it goes among younger men and how status is often negotiated. You don't need to start flying higher from the beginning. You can get there in some years -and the one-upping game is good experience anyway-
• Very possible they liked you because you showed some social dominance/power, good call/analysis. No reason to be angry about that, it's just how things go
• Low-quality people are still a good experience, so you learn how to deal with everyone. Later on you say "better alone than with assholes", which is indeed 100% true

OFF-TOPIC:

Quote from Power Duck on December 2, 2023, 1:52 pm

(...)
In fact a professor (a rather old one) also flirts with them and says some things that could make him lose his job (all this in private with them via email or when they ask lessons in private). They both tell all those things to every person close to being a friend, yet they keep talking with him, and sending tiktok videos to him. It's clear that they love the attention and the drama related to it.

Crazy story in the "craziness of everyday normal life" type of crazy.

Reminded me of a story I had even forgotten.

My brother was quite poor in school.
The last senior year though he had the principal who helped me pass and "put a good word" for him.

My brother didn't do any particular strategizing to even "earn" that though.

All he did was... To catch him while having sex with a student on an off-road street where he had parked his car to proceed undisturbed (my brother had an enduro bike and he liked to explore hidden paths and places).

So the principal wanted him happy and out as soon as possible 😀 :S .

OFF-TOPIC

Thanks Lucio.

With recent experiences I had gotten a glimpse of some of the things you mention but didn't get them as clearly as you pointed them, so thanks for that.

• Don't expect women to police for high-quality and "no asshole rules". Especially not young ones. After all, to women a high-power asshole is better than a pushover (and for good reasons. It's also one of the reasons TPM exists). That's on you and/or the minoirty of high-quality men

Although this in particular was something I hadnt given much though compared to the rest, will bear this more in mind.

 

OFF TOPIC

I find also interesting how those things you point out used to make me feel sad and resentful in the past. But now I accept them as something normal and neither good or bad for the most part and most of the time. Although  now  all that "Disney and virtue signaling bs" makes me a bit angry instead, I suppose my resentment is now directed towards those who created the naivete in the first place.

Crazy story in the "craziness of everyday normal life" type of crazy.

Reminded me of a story I had even forgotten.

My brother was quite poor in school.
The last senior year though he had the principal who helped me pass and "put a good word" for him.

My brother didn't do any particular strategizing to even "earn" that though.

All he did was... To catch him while having sex with a student on an off-road street where he had parked his car to proceed undisturbed (my brother had an enduro bike and he liked to explore hidden paths and places).

So the principal wanted him happy and out as soon as possible 😀 :S .

Lol,  in school, I think its better if I don't know the age of said student hahaha.

END OFF TOPIC

Cheers.