Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 17, 2023, 9:15 am

Rock on, Roberto.

A note on this one:

Quote from Roberto on October 16, 2023, 11:49 pm

I still have a really high but fragile ego and my brain doesn't like the tought of finding out I am not so great at doing specific things as I imagined myself to be.

Yeah, have/had something similar.

I Remember in middle school we were going for the school skiing holiday and it was customary to have a small race in the ned.

I had zero experience of skying, but before leaving said off-handendly, as if it was the most normal thing: "I'm gonna win that".
That was stunning in my family. They were all laughing/excited about it.

Well, turns out, it was SO embarrassing to me when my "race" turned out to be absolute crap that I clearly remember it to this day as one of the most stinging moments of my life.

On the plus side, and despite what's popular saying these days, I think it's generally a HUGE advantage to have high self-esteem and "big ego" -the two overlap anyway- IF one addresses the important downsides.
You can fix the downsides of the big ego and make it more antifragile, but it's a lot harder to improve a "small" ego.

There is a parallel here between successful narcissists and unsuccessful ones (see this post here).

Similarly, more successful "big egos" learn to make that ego a bit smaller, more antifragile, and to turn more into a "background foundation of self-esteem", but "less personal", less about you.
Such as, yeah, you think highly of yourself... But you also don't give that much of a f*ck at the end of the day.
It's all about executing and doing the best with what you have.
Win or lose, it's OK and you're good regardless.

Quote from John Freeman on October 17, 2023, 9:27 am

Hello Roberto,

I agree with Lucio: what matters the most is that you pushed yourself.

And you do it over and over again until you win.

It’s funny you talk about that. I was doing a baptem of scuba diving. And I wanted to be THE student. That is the guy whom they say: « wow, we never have somebody do that on the first time ». I actually got compliments about one aspect like this but not all aspects.

Then I asked them if they had this experience: to think they’re going to master the thing on the first try. I’ll be frank and a bit tough: it’s delusional. It can happen but if it does not it does not say anything about us. Hard work beats talent every time. Our strength as a species is not to receive the gift from heaven. Our strength is adaptation. I got the chills writing it.

So I think that we fall prey to the talent myth and it’s counterproductive. You could think: wow that’s great the progress I did.

So as you can imagine I encourage you to work on the learner mindset. You can find some pointers in my post on the learner mindset on the forum in « mindset ». Tom Bilyeu is the king of the learner mindset with the caveats Lucio talked about (one wants to become an expert not an eternal learner).

Quote from B on October 17, 2023, 10:31 am

It's very frequent to have an inflated ego before actually doing the thing for the first time.

The process of learning is often two-pronged:

• first, we learn by removing, that is we bring our "high ego" to the ground level, by confirming to ourselves over and over that no, we're not so special, and we really don't know nothing of the thing we never did before;
• then, we start learning by adding, that is we add behaviors that serve us to actually do the thing well.

While most people think that learning is only the second phase, going through the first phase is unavoidable in most cases: and it is very much a part of the learning process.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 17, 2023, 10:57 am

OFF-TOPIC

Great points.

I feel that things are more complex and with plenty of exceptions, grey areas and middle-ground.

And that applies to both narcissism and "talent VS work dichotomy".

Narcissism is on a spectrum, some agree within certain levels it can be good/healthy.
And I think that of all the places, we know this on TPM: even at the higher levels, it evolved and it's widespread because it provided certain advantages.
Wouldn't have evolved if it was only negative.

As for talent/work, totally agree on the importance of hard work.

And I think we all also know this and would agree: people do differ in how talented they are on any given task/skill.

So talent does exist and it is simply a smart life strategy to focus our work and attention in the areas where we're most talented.

Also, exceptions and special cases: one may suck the first time he tries something, but still have all the good traits to excel in that area.
Even if it may take "hard work to uncover", talent still matters.

Also, plenty of people do things for a first time, and they're already good (enough).

That isn't even an exception, it's common.

Edit:
Wrote this before Bel's edits to his post as it included some references to narcissism.

OFF-TOPIC

Quote from John Freeman on October 17, 2023, 11:35 am

Off-topic

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 17, 2023, 10:57 am

OFF-TOPIC

Great points.

I feel that things are more complex and with plenty of exceptions, grey areas and middle-ground.

And that applies to both narcissism and "talent VS work dichotomy".

Narcissism is on a spectrum, some agree within certain levels it can be good/healthy.
And I think that of all the places, we know this on TPM: even at the higher levels, it evolved and it's widespread because it provided certain advantages.
Wouldn't have evolved if it was only negative.

Yes, I’m actually experiencing this. Having learned that despite having worked on my inner layers, despite having worked myself to a reasonably good level of socio-economic status I’m still struggling in the dating arena.

Women are attracted to narcissist in my opinion because they are high status high power because they focus so much on themselves. It gives them a high sense of self esteem and high sense of confidence. This translates in dating success. It’s only after that women are repulsed by the fragile ego and other dysfunctions (not caring about them, etc.).

So I’m consciously increasing my narcissism through better self-care: washing my face twice a day (small thing but still self-signal), started doing cardio once a day, etc. . As you said it evolved for a reason and being narcissistic to a degree improves self-advancement.

As for talent/work, totally agree on the importance of hard work.

And I think we all also know this and would agree: people do differ in how talented they are on any given task/skill.

Yes

So talent does exist and it is simply a smart life strategy to focus our work and attention in the areas where we're most talented.

Yes talent exists definitely.

Also, exceptions and special cases: one may suck the first time he tries something, but still have all the good traits to excel in that area.
Even if it may take "hard work to uncover", talent still matters.

Yes

Also, plenty of people do things for a first time, and they're already good (enough).

That isn't even an exception, it's common.

I never considered before it could be common. I actually thought about this after scuba diving. I thought about the friends I had in high school who were good at one sport then it would translate to other sports even if they never practiced it. So it’s about transferable skills/talent to me.

If one’s talent is communication it will translate to other areas of communication (public speaking, etc.).

So yes my talent is not athleticism so I don’t have this easiness when starting a new sport. Your post helps me be more accurate.

/off topic 

Quote from John Freeman on October 17, 2023, 11:37 am

Quote from Bel on October 17, 2023, 10:31 am

It's very frequent to have an inflated ego before actually doing the thing for the first time.

yeah I think it relates to the Dunning-Krueger effect.

 

Quote from Roberto on October 22, 2023, 10:22 pm

Hello guys

I met an old schoolmate of mine by chance at the public library this weekend. Have not seen her for nearly 2 years. I really liked her back then because she was one of the few women in my environment who could be classified as feminine & high quality. Amazing flirt, great style, AND even back then, Power aware.

She is doing the same continuing education as I did 2 years ago. (Failure rate 60% at school Y she is in)

We talked briefly and then the following happened on Whatsapp:

M: If you still have summaries from school X I would be very grateful for sharing :) *Email from her attached*

Roberto: I sent you a One Drive link with the summaries.

*small-talk which is not relevant*

Roberto: Sorry about earlier. I didn't mean to scare you about school Y. It always depends on the personal performance and if I see you here in October, then I know that you will pass this year with 99% certainty if you continue like that.

(I was worried that I made her feel uncomfortable because during our conversation outside the library she looked relatively worried. However, my frame: I told her something and was able to worry her. Doesn't exactly make her look good.)

M: Everything is fine, I am already aware of how it works.

M: I have the feeling that many don't take it that seriously & that's why most of them drop out in the first semester before they even can take the exam.

M: *Response to my comment* That's sweet! Yes, so far, it's going very well:) I have gained a lot of important experience in the last 2 years that will definitely help me now:)

M: If you need something for university, let me know, I have many friends who graduated there in the same subject :)

----- End of conversation -----

This is very good frame control for a 21-year-old. I mean, I have TPM. But I always wonder where other people get it, and at this age?

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 23, 2023, 8:28 am

Yep, as for most things in life, some people are "naturally good (enough)" from the start.

The most impressive I've seen so far here are actual high-school students from Mats' journal.

I get the feeling she's very mature, and in a "professional/proper" and "highly conscientious" fashion.
Makes for very high-quality women indeed.

I don't know if your intentions here were to test if there may have been room for dating.
But in any case, I may have sent her the link to the folder on her WhatsApp, little power move just not to 100% execute her task and "serve her".

Quote from Roberto on October 23, 2023, 9:00 pm

Thank you for your answer Lucio!

She is (unfortunately (for me)) in a relationship.