Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 28, 2022, 4:33 am

For #2, that's smart and can make sense in some situations.

As you say, it may make more sense to be unfiltered on a forum where people are learning this stuff.

Outside of it, there's a place for that approach. For example, with the "general public", let's say to avoid being labeled as "too judgmental", then in some situations, it can be a smart approach indeed.

It's especially good if the person is mostly an astute covert aggressor and/or if he has a good reputation and most people would miss those red flags.

 

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 29, 2022, 8:54 pm

The "Undercover Boss" Test: Success (Use Power-Awareness to Cover Your Ass)

The cleaning company I help my father lead has seen its ups and downs in terms of finding high-quality hires.

Once, we hired a couple and assigned them a school to clean together.

They teamed up and agreed to take as long as believably possible to clean it, so they could stay on the clock longer and get more pay.

Whenever my father, Al, said that the project shouldn't have taken so long, they'd claim it was extra dirty that day (and, with no proof to deny their story given that we were working on other tasks at other locations, we'd give them the benefit of the doubt).

Well, one day, that couple threatened to quit on us if we didn't pay them underneath the table (in cash)—because they didn't want their income to be reported on their taxes. So, we let them go.

Upon searching for replacements to manage that school now, my father made a hire without my knowledge. But, he also told me great things about this one.

Working with my dad, this new hire managed to clean that same project that took the previous couple a number of hours in half the time.

He claimed that this new hire was so good, she was exposing everyone in the company :).

I was really happy to hear that. But, I must admit, when I finally met her, I wished I'd been there for the interview because I saw some red flags I didn't like early on.

We met for the first time on a project that the three of us decided to undertake together (a large Airbnb).

As I introduced myself, I gave her a compliment, saying to Al with a smile, "So, this is the famous Brenda who's been putting all the other employees to shame?" (By the way, I think that for most leadership situations this is a bad move because it can inspire unhealthy competition within the team—among other reasons. But, we drove over to the project together in the same car and, on the way, she spoke to a friend over the phone. During that phone call, some of the things she said coupled with the way she said them felt like personality-based yellow flags, so I wanted test her. And, since we were the only ones there—no other employees present—it seemed like a risk with a good potential upside where the potential damage is minimized.)

In response to my compliment she said, "I love to hear that."

A "thank you" would've been a more appropriate response, in my opinion, or, even better, a "thank you, but..." as she ends on a more humble note.

So, now, my initial gut feeling that her personality may not be the best is slowly being confirmed. But, I only make a mental note of it, saying nothing.

Next, she picks up a lot of the cleaning supplies in each hand and begins walking up to the Airbnb's front door while Al and I are still by the car getting ready.

It seemed like she thought that that would make her look like an initiative-taking and eager employee, but it came across as power move to me, acting first and looking like the leader to the homeowners (who were there watching).

Her saving grace is that by taking the majority of the supplies, she invests the most effort, giving us back some power as we walk up a little more empty-handed. But, this is still my first sign that she might be power-unaware (which impacts her personality and begins to connect some dots as far as why I'm struggling to really like her so far).

At this point, I feel she's a bad hire. But, it's also quite early to call it and I want to see for myself what my father saw in her, so I'm being patient.

By the end of the project's completion, my father asks me what I think of her and my only comment is that she spends a lot of time on her phone. Sometimes I refrain from telling my dad my analyses because he believes the "small" signs I see are no big deal. So, I'll wait until right before the person exposes themself, tell my dad my prediction, and amaze him when he comes back with "you were right".

He agrees, saying he's told her before to stop spending so much time on her phone, but that she continues to do it anyway (it seems my father got tired of having to repeat himself and decided to let it slide for the most part because she's a good cleaner).

Another yellow flag moving into the red: not respecting the order(s) coming from her boss.

The second time I met Brenda, we were cleaning the same school as the previous employees we let go, only this time we needed to move all of the desks and large teacher's cabinets around to strip and wax the floors.

She begins to complain, saying this is "man's work" and "too much work for a woman".

Perhaps a sign of laziness, but not a sign that would be congruent with all of the stories I'd heard about the productive, efficient Brenda that Al told me about.

Still, I'm seeing this complaining with my own eyes, so I take the reality seen over stories heard and mark it as another yellow-red flag.

Moving towards the end of the project, she asks me a question:

Brenda: "Are you hungry (looks at Ali with a face that says she wants to get some food)?"

Ali: "Not really, but there's a Chipotle not too far from here."

[Brenda and Ali talk a little bit about the food spots around.]

Brenda: "So, you're not hungry?"

Ali: "No."

Brenda: "Well, can you ask him [Al] if he can take us to Chipotle?"

Ali: (rejects task) "You can ask him (said as if to say, "It's OK to ask that.")."

Brenda: "Yeah, but if you ask him he'll say 'yes'."

Ali: (smiles and jokes) "Oh, so you're trying to use me (exposes her game lightly)?"

Brenda: (laughs, then smiles) "Maayybe."

*Click the blockquote above to expand it.

I was glad that she admitted to it because it was obvious by that point.

But, if she wanted to joke back without coming across manipulative, she could've laughed and then said "no, no" as if to say while backtracking, "I was but, now you've caught me, my bad :)."

The fact that she said "maybe" as if she was still hoping to get her way was a bit surprising to me.

I told her she can ask him, he's cool about things like that, and she did.

But, as it turns out, my father had been buying Brenda lunch sometimes in the hopes it would expand the collaborative frame, keeping her as a happy employee.

So, unfortunately, it seemed that she wanted me to be the one to ask him in order to increase her chances of getting a free meal out of my father.

Leeching off my father's kind gestures? Not cool. (And, if you're wondering, my father did make her pay for her own meal that night :).

When the final task of the project came of cleaning the bathrooms, Brenda "called dibs" on cleaning (what she thought was) the smallest one.

More than the implied laziness, is her frame that she can call dibs on cleaning whatever she wants rather than cleaning what her bosses tell her to.

Another strike against her.

Finally, when I waited away from the group on the upper level where they couldn't see me, she asked Al:

Brenda: "Where'd that boy go?"

She had no idea I'd heard her.

Al noticed it too, but said nothing about it, simply saying I might be on the upper floor.

It smelled like more than a lack of respect for my authority to call me a "boy", but an ingroup/outgroup manipulation of framing herself and my father as the older adults and me as the "young kid".

By the night's end, I didn't like her.

And yet, I'd handled myself so well, I caught her staring at me with eyes that indicated curiosity/some interest later that night (and then she quickly looks away when I look back at her :).

Finally, the third time I met her is when the three of us were cleaning a gym.

Al needed to drop off some of the equipment we'd rented for cleaning the school, so he gives us our instructions for handling the project while he's gone and then leaves.

At one point, Brenda and I cleaned a floor that had some dusty equipment resting on it.

Then, a little later, Brenda sat down and started scrolling through Instagram on her phone.

A bad move.

The clients who hired us were right there having a meeting in the gym while we were cleaning it.

So, if they saw that we'd charged them for a certain number of hours (claiming it would take that long to clean) and then see one of the employees relaxing on the job mid-clean, they'd likely be upset (and rightfully so), thinking that we'd lied about how long it would take if we have employees doing nothing.

So, I ask her if she's all done. She says she is.

So, I task her, telling her to wipe the bottoms of the equipment while I put them back.

She says:

Brenda: (pauses, as if thinking)

Brenda: (turns body away from me to the side and says defiantly) "I'm not doing that."

Ali: (surprised, looks at her for a couple of seconds to see if she's serious)

Ali: (agrees, as if to say, "Yeah, I know it's a lot") Yeah, (redirects to task, framing it as being small and not requiring perfection)

Brenda: "I'm not doing that."

Ali: (stops and just looks at her, waiting for her to explain)

Brenda: (says she did her work already and that she'll help me with something else, but that she's not doing this task)

Ali: (unsatisfied and unhappy with her behavior) "OK."

I was confused and upset.

But, not upset at Brenda.

No, indeed, I felt that what she did was right, it was simply the way she went about it that was wrong.

Had she instead said:

Ali: (gives her a task)

Brenda: "(agrees) Yeah, (validates/empathizes with my thoughts on the situation) I understand those need to get done, (assertive "no" technique: say "yes" to your priorities) I'd prefer to focus on the tasks Al gave me though (prioritizes the tasks that came from the very top)."

I'd have been totally OK with that. And then, she could've gone on to simply double-check her work until Al got back.

So, I wasn't upset at Brenda. I was actually upset at Al.

Her tone, defiance, and attitude all indicated a blatant lack of respect for my authority. And, to me, that either meant that there was something Al told her or didn't tell her that (a) caused her to view me negatively and (b) empowered her to think that it was OK to disrespect my authority (in front of our clientele, no less).

I was heated.

Then, Brenda did the unbelievable.

She helped me with a couple of other tasks (as she said she would, but seemingly only to avoid a full on competitive frame with someone she knows she might have to work with again in the future). And then, pulled up a chair by the gym's front door and sat on Instagram again, keeping an eye on the front door's window for when Al would get back.

And, when she sees Al's car return and start parking, you might've guessed it. She shoots straights up, quickly puts her phone away, and picks up a mop to start mopping the very same floor she also told me she wouldn't do (of course, to make it look like she was working the whole time that he was gone).

I went to lunch with Al not too many days after and spoke with him about it.

As it turns out, she'd beaten me to it, telling Al about what had happened and calling it a "little beef".

When she told Al her version of the story (which Al even told me himself seemed to have some dishonesty in it), he said to her something along the lines of, "Well, it's not necessarily fully inappropriate for him to tell you to do things sometimes. He's been with the company longer and, you never know, he could be your boss someday." In response, she laughed saying, "He's too young to be my boss."

Then it dawned on me. Brenda didn't know that I'm the managing director of the company. And, Al confirmed that, telling me that he never told her.

I was shocked, but also relieved. It's better to have been treated disrespectfully because she thought I was on her level than to have been treated with such little respect because my authority exists, but doesn't matter within the company. At least this way, if I reveal to her my formal authority, I can fairly-rationally expect a change in behavior from her moving forward.

And yet, I decided with Al over lunch that day to continue playing along, while also warning him about her.

Then, it happened. He came back to me, saying, "You were right about Brenda."

He didn't tell me the details of what had happened (and I didn't want to know or hear anything more about her because I felt she'd already taken up enough of my mental and emotional space), but I remember that on the following project where the three of us worked together, she refused to speak to me. The entire clean went by and we never said a word to each other.

It was during our break that I spoke to my father away from her, wondering what was going on, and he told me that he'd revealed to her my position in the company.

She didn't believe him and he told her, "Google him."

From the way Al described it to me, the shock on her face was something I wish I could've been there for myself :).

She said to Al that he should've told her. Al disagreed, saying that he didn't have to. And, she stayed silent, accepting his frame.

But, now, also refusing to talk to me (which might be another sign of power-unawareness right there—an apology and high warmth would've been the right way to go if she wanted to make things right and rebuild goodwill, assuming she cared about her job).

It was only when Al needed to leave to attend to some other business and asked me to be her transportation back to her home that she said one thing to me as I dropped her off:

Brenda: "Thanks, bye."

Well, it is what it is.

Had Brenda been more power-aware, she could've come out of this well.

In every mistake she made, there was a way to handle it so even when she found out who I am, she'd still be in the neutral with me (and even the positive, if she were really good, albeit I can understand this might've been a difficult case for her because it's tough dealing with employees who act like they're your boss—regardless of if they secretly are or aren't).

P.S.:

As an added note on the importance of power-awareness, I gave her the benefit of the doubt early on because I wanted to have faith in my father's judgment as a former hotel general manager with 20+ years of experience (throughout which he did a lot of hiring).

But, my father's judgment lacks PU knowledge. And so, as it turns out, sometimes power-awareness (which is a part of "exec skills") is more important than job skills (such as hiring) even when we're talking about decades of experience in that job skill.

---

A longer one than I thought it'd be, but hopefully long and valuable :).

If anyone has any feedback on this case study, happy to read.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 30, 2022, 4:37 am

Awesome, awesome case study, Ali.

Thank you for sharing, proper way of using power-awareness to judge and assess people early on.

Come to think of it, this may even be a technique indeed: show yourself lower power on purpose, see how people behave, and you'll get a much more reliable test of character.

One thing that stood out to me:

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 29, 2022, 8:54 pm

He claimed that this new hire was so good, she was exposing everyone in the company :).

I was really happy to hear that. But, I must admit, when I finally met her, I wished I'd been there for the interview because I saw some red flags I didn't like early on.

If that happened even before the major red flag, you may be approaching a point where you're reading the smaller signal, possibly subconsciously, all the small details and attitudes that are difficult to describe because they're so small, but that still give you a (first) important idea about a person.

And then just two notes / feedback in case they may add some value:

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 29, 2022, 8:54 pm

As I introduced myself, I gave her a compliment, saying to Al with a smile, "So, this is the famous Brenda who's been putting all the other employees to shame?" (By the way, I think that for most leadership situations this is a bad move because it can inspire unhealthy competition within the team—among other reasons. But, we drove over to the project together in the same car and, on the way, she spoke to a friend over the phone. During that phone call, some of the things she said coupled with the way she said them felt like personality-based yellow flags, so I wanted test her. And, since we were the only ones there—no other employees present—it seemed like a risk with a good potential upside where the potential damage is minimized.)

Yes to all of your notes in parenthesis.

And as well, I wouldn't make a gushing compliment so early on.

One, because many people are often on their best behavior very early on.
And the biggest contribution is over time, with consistency and dependability.
So the very beginning may not be the best time to evaluate performance and adherence to the rules.

Two, because of public status and reputation, you want to avoid being caught "dead wrong" -that's why many seasoned folks rarely go to the extreme when assessing people: it's a CYA policy-.
If you "jump the gun" and you're wrong, you may lose some status and reputation both in your ability to assess people, and in your "consistency", which is something that people generally see as a positive trait (it's not necessarily a positive trait, but that's a different topic).
Also, you may give them a hook for manipulation, as in "but you said that I put everyone to shame, YOU said that" (not an issue for a power-aware person, but still annoying and won't hurt to prevent it).

And third, to get the most contribution, because:

1. There's no room for improvement if she's already #1
2. Entitled and value-takers may take advantage of that see that as their moment to chill, and ask for more (rather than keep being that way, or doing even more)

Instead, if you want to compliment, something better to say may be: "we were happy with the first work" (and then potentially add what can be done even better.

Machiavelli would also say that negative judges and judges who don't exaggerate their praise hold more power, but those reasons above are enough without going deep into Machiavellianism.

Consistency, Cognitive Dissonance & Power Explains Her "Shutting Off"

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 29, 2022, 8:54 pm

I was shocked, but also relieved. It's better to have been treated disrespectfully because she thought I was on her level than to have been treated with such little respect because my authority exists, but doesn't matter within the company. At least this way, if I reveal to her my formal authority, I can fairly-rationally expect a change in behavior from her moving forward.

And yet, I decided with Al over lunch that day to continue playing along, while also warning him about her.

Yes, that often happens indeed.

But not always.

It's either that or...

Avoid you and still resist you to save her own face.

Once her previous behavior was direspect, she'd be inconsistent and "lose face" if she now completely change her behavior.

So some people, even at their own loss, will completely shut off to you so just that they can stay consistent.

That dynamic is a lot more pronounced if you didn't do anything to display your power and/or your displeasure/anger at the situation.

That's because, once she knows you're an MD, she'd have to make an even bigger about-face and be even more disempowered: not only she'd have to apologize, lose face, and now submit, but doing so for someone who's even low power (it's a bigger power loss to submit to a low-power person who think doesn't deserve respect, than to a high power one we think deserves respect).

So the way to prevent that is to act more like her boss.

Had you for example just said "I'm asking you to help me do this, are you refusing to help me", then let her explain why, then may be went to her when she was sitting and said "look, I'm there working and you're here sitting. Taking a break is fine, but you've been there 15 minutes now, are you coming to help me now", that would have already been more "boss behavior" and easier for her to accept it later on.

Quote from B on October 30, 2022, 1:08 pm

Guys, this is really helpful.

Chipping in on two things:

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 30, 2022, 4:37 am

Machiavelli would also say that negative judges and judges who don't exaggerate their praise hold more power, but those reasons above are enough without going deep into Machiavellianism.

Being more powerful as a judge if one doesn't exaggerate praise: this is an invaluably useful concept, that I had not consciously picked up so far, but which I find to be in line with several other tangential power-learnings:

• avoiding being an all-praising ingratiating subordinate to a boss or higher-up (because you come across as insincere and, I now realize, you lose all your "subordinate judge power");
• avoiding coming across as fake or insincere (because an extremely positive judgment, especially early-on but I think even later, subcommunicates wanting something, either in the form of social-scalping or in the form of testing character);
• avoiding coming across as "not life-experienced": because a person who has high experience has likely seen both worse and better behaviors and people, so an extremely strong all-out praise subcommunicates being bigly inexperienced;
• and of course avoiding, as Lucio pointed out, the big praise being amenable to manipulation.

I think we could even derive a general power-principle here: that when giving praise or judgment, one always wants to subcommunicate the possibility of being amenable to changing one's mind.

This could even be the "power" inherent in the "judge role": that of changing one's mind. Even a negative judge derives his power from subcommunicating that the judged person can, by improving, come to the higher standard that is expected by the judge.

If, on the other hand, I not only judge a person negatively, but also communicate that my judgment is irrevocable (as in "you were such a bastard to me that I don't want to ever see you again in this life"), then by definition my "negative judge move" is ineffective, and I am losing, instead of gaining, power.

This is a dynamic that I was unconsciously trying to understand with some people in my life and that was causing much cognitive dissonance:

• on the one hand I wanted to tell them to f*** off forever;
• on the other hand, something was telling me it was more powerful to "keep a possibility open for them to be reincluded in my life".

Consistency, Cognitive Dissonance & Power Explains Her "Shutting Off"

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 29, 2022, 8:54 pm

I was shocked, but also relieved. It's better to have been treated disrespectfully because she thought I was on her level than to have been treated with such little respect because my authority exists, but doesn't matter within the company. At least this way, if I reveal to her my formal authority, I can fairly-rationally expect a change in behavior from her moving forward.

And yet, I decided with Al over lunch that day to continue playing along, while also warning him about her.

Yes, that often happens indeed.

But not always.

It's either that or...

Avoid you and still resist you to save her own face.

Once her previous behavior was direspect, she'd be inconsistent and "lose face" if she now completely change her behavior.

So some people, even at their own loss, will completely shut off to you so just that they can stay consistent.

That dynamic is a lot more pronounced if you didn't do anything to display your power and/or your displeasure/anger at the situation.

That's because, once she knows you're an MD, she'd have to make an even bigger about-face and be even more disempowered: not only she'd have to apologize, lose face, and now submit, but doing so for someone who's even low power (it's a bigger power loss to submit to a low-power person who think doesn't deserve respect, than to a high power one we think deserves respect).

So the way to prevent that is to act more like her boss.

Had you for example just said "I'm asking you to help me do this, are you refusing to help me", then let her explain why, then may be went to her when she was sitting and said "look, I'm there working and you're here sitting. Taking a break is fine, but you've been there 15 minutes now, are you coming to help me now", that would have already been more "boss behavior" and easier for her to accept it later on.

This is also invaluable learning for me.

It ties in with:

• the concept to start out as more "dominant" and only then ease into a more democratic style
• the concept that increasing one's power in established relationships is not going to be easily accepted, and will induce (in my experience) most people to either ramp-up manipulation to obtain renewed submission, or even to break ties
• the concept that it's especially important to address early-on power moves or domination attempts.

Not only that: it explains dynamics I have frequently encountered in my work in the past:

• I would start out as (unaware) lower-power in negotiations with colleagues
• then they would escalate, and finally make an outrageous demand that I could never accept
• I invariably refused and at that point adopted a strong stance
• they would then invariably stop talking to me on the phone and become more "distant" or even "angry"
• some would only communicate by email from them on and not answer the phone anymore
• some others would even stop replying to my emails
• sometimes, as a result of this, I was forced to escalate into lawsuits.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 31, 2022, 2:51 am

Yes, great, everything you say adds up, Bel.

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 31, 2022, 4:35 pm

Thank you for the feedback and notes, Lucio!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 30, 2022, 4:37 am

(...)

And as well, I wouldn't make a gushing compliment so early on.

(...)

Yes, agreed.

To me, it seemed like good timing (at the time) because when I met her for that first time, she'd already been working for the company for a while.

But, looking back, that "while" is quite short and I've made a mental note to be careful of giving any big compliments early on because, if I'm summarizing your notes right:

1. It's often based on a distorted picture of performance: because people are on their best behavior early on.
2. It's a reward based on less important metrics: because the most important metrics are consistency and dependability (which only show over time).
3. It puts one at a high risk of having "spoken too soon" about the employee: if it later turns out that they were not worthy of such (big/gushing) praise.
4. It opens one up for possible manipulation: if that employee tries to use their compliment against them.
5. It disincentivizes the employee from contributing as much as they can: because the big compliment subcommunicates that what they've already given is enough.
6. It encourages entitled people and value-takers to take advantage of the moment: because since they're "now number one", they can "take it easy" (and potentially even ask for more).

Thanks again for your notes, Lucio, I will keep your feedback in mind going forward.

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on October 30, 2022, 4:37 am

Consistency, Cognitive Dissonance & Power Explains Her "Shutting Off"

Quote from Ali Scarlett on October 29, 2022, 8:54 pm

I was shocked, but also relieved. It's better to have been treated disrespectfully because she thought I was on her level than to have been treated with such little respect because my authority exists, but doesn't matter within the company. At least this way, if I reveal to her my formal authority, I can fairly-rationally expect a change in behavior from her moving forward.

And yet, I decided with Al over lunch that day to continue playing along, while also warning him about her.

Yes, that often happens indeed.

But not always.

It's either that or...

Avoid you and still resist you to save her own face.

Once her previous behavior was disrespect, she'd be inconsistent and "lose face" if she now completely change her behavior.

So some people, even at their own loss, will completely shut off to you so just that they can stay consistent.

That dynamic is a lot more pronounced if you didn't do anything to display your power and/or your displeasure/anger at the situation.

That's because, once she knows you're an MD, she'd have to make an even bigger about-face and be even more disempowered: not only she'd have to apologize, lose face, and now submit, but doing so for someone who's even low power (it's a bigger power loss to submit to a low-power person who think doesn't deserve respect, than to a high power one we think deserves respect).

So the way to prevent that is to act more like her boss.

Had you for example just said "I'm asking you to help me do this, are you refusing to help me", then let her explain why, then may be went to her when she was sitting and said "look, I'm there working and you're here sitting. Taking a break is fine, but you've been there 15 minutes now, are you coming to help me now", that would have already been more "boss behavior" and easier for her to accept it later on.

You're totally right, Lucio. And, it makes sense.

I went in thinking she already knew I was her boss so, having had bad bosses in the past (who will probably get their own case studies in the future :) ), I wanted to show more warmth in the beginning.

But, I shouldn't let my past experiences sway me into bad power-skills practices.

So, next time, I'll be more assertive. (And, thank you for the scripts as well.)

Quote from Ali Scarlett on November 29, 2022, 8:33 pm

Used car salesman sloppily uses power moves to try to win the deal

My car broke down in a roundabout. I'd had her for a while, she was loyal and I'm happy to have had her.

But, alas, it was time to send her off to the junkyard and move on :).

I saw a car I liked and visited the dealership to take a look in person.

The Introduction

The car salesman walks outside and greets me and my father equally before we reach the door—not giving one of us more attention than the other.

A semi-good move, in my opinion. I might've waited for us to enter the building first and then given the warm greeting inside (in order to avoid expending so much social effort so early on), but it wasn't a deal-killer.

When we did walk inside I noticed a "#1 Salesman of the Month" trophy on his desk for everyone to see.

Bold move :D.

It might've been a source of pride for him, but it was a sign to be a tough negotiator for me.

The Information-Gathering (Assessing My Counterpart)

We took the car for a test drive where I asked him how long he's been in sales (prying a bit to see what I was up against :) ). He'd been in the game for a while.

He also talked about his family, mentioning happily how he'd made enough sales this year to take them on vacation to Costa Rica soon.

Then, we get inside and he starts handing me some paperwork.

The Negotiation Begins

One of my favorite videos giving an overview of car dealership negotiation is this one:

https://youtu.be/1gtmij_uNuE?t=56

No need to watch it all the way through (unless you want to), the main idea is that "foursquare" concept.

Dealerships avoid negotiating the price of the car because that's where they make the most money. (They'd rather talk about the down payment and the monthly payment.)

After all, the price of the vehicle determines how many months it'll take for you to pay it off (which determines how many months they'll make money off of you). The bigger the price, the more months it'll take.

So, naturally, they won't want to go lower on that number. But, knowing that's where I'll also lose the most money, I bring it up.

The salesman assertively says that the price of the car is the same as is listed on the website. (In other words, "We don't negotiate that, that number is fixed.")

My father being there, he steps in before I respond and, as they go back and forth, the salesman gives the speech, "We don't negotiate that price because we want to give you the best price possible straight away because we don't want to waste your time...it's the only way we can compete with these other dealerships, is by giving you the absolute best price straight from the start....blah, blah, blah."

I allow it.

He hands me a document with a list of numbers. The cost of the car, the agreed-upon downpayment, the estimated monthly payment, etc.

Then, I see something listed as part of the total for $1,000 called "Cilajet". But, it also has a note beside it that says it's optional.

I don't know what that is. And, I don't want to admit that I don't know what it is because then he'd know I'm going into this negotiation less knowledgeable (which puts me at a disadvantage).

But, I also think it's more important to know what I'm paying for.

So, I ask. And, he gives the worst excuse ever.

Him: [Paraphrasing] "Yeah, so, you know how your car's paint can get dirty really fast? This protects your car so in case berries fall on your car or something like that, it's easier to wash it off at the car wash...it makes your paint last longer..."

I told him to take it off.

He did that dance of getting up with the document, walking a few feet to another desk (still in plain view of both my father and I), and making it look like he needs to make a big persuasive case for his manager to approve the change and that it's a "hard sell".

My thoughts were, "What a power-taking cheap shot. Getting ready to charge me for something I never agreed to (so you can get a higher monthly payment out of me) and only explaining it after I asked about it. What if I never asked?"

He'd lost my trust and, from that point forward, I was watching him more closely.

The Negotiation - Phase II

Next, we needed to head to a small room in the back—their finance department—to verify that I could actually afford the car I had my eye on.

After getting all of my information, it would be a thirty-minute wait until we got confirmation. I looked at my dad and told him that I'd like to check out some other dealerships in the meantime.

The look on the financier's face was priceless :).

A look mixed with "I don't want you to leave" and "I don't know what the persuasive thing is to say that would make stay".

We both got up and as we walked out, I was taken aback.

Somebody who looked exactly like a young Lucio with blonde hair and a Ukrainian accent walked up to me and said "thank you for your business".

I said, "I haven't decided yet, we'll see," as I continued toward the door. But, I immediately liked the guy. (I knew I shouldn't, they're different people. But, I couldn't help it, it was instinctive. He was a regular sales rep, but was wearing a high-power clothing style similar to Lucio's and I saw a look in his eyes that told me he was driven. Although I have no right to say so, it almost felt like I'd stepped out of a time machine and been given a glimpse into Lucio's past in another universe :) )

We continue to the car and when we reach the parking lot, the salesman hurriedly speed walks out saying to me loudly:

Him: "He's (another sales rep's) selling your car!" (power borrowing: borrowing power from another sales rep to change/manipulate my behavior)

The move was so obvious, I was excited to respond. But, before I could, my dad beat me to it:

Dad: "If he sells it, he sells it."

A clear "I don't care", short, sweet, and to the point. What a response :).

The Negotiation - Phase III

We got approved for the car and came back the next day and, what do you know, the car was still there, unsold :).

There was only one issue, the handbrake was broken.

I'd pull it up, but then it'd stay stuck, refusing to go back down.

We had him try the handbrake and he'd swear the handbrake was fine even after we watched him painfully struggle with it.

His response was, "There's a trick to it."

My Dad said, "There shouldn't be a 'trick' to working a handbrake."

I agreed. If it works properly, then it shouldn't require "tricks" to function.

I told the car salesman that I wouldn't be taking the car with a malfunctioning handbrake.

He said adamantly that "it works, I just gotta get used to it/give it another try/whatever else he had to say to close the sale".

Still, I firmly held my ground and we agreed he'd fix the handbrake.

Upon returning the next day, I tried the handbrake and, again, it wasn't working.

He sat in the driver's seat and tried the handbrake, struggling with it again as well, and said, "You broke it."

I was pissed.

But, I controlled my anger, staring him in the side of the face as he looked down at the handbrake, wanting him to say some shit so I could absolutely tear him apart with some excellent frame control.

That was the win I wanted. Not confrontation.

But, he refrained, saying he wanted me to try again.

Assertively, yet calmly, I said:

Me: "I understand the handbrake works for you, but it doesn't work for me."

In other words, I'm the buyer and I'm the chooser, and I say I don't like it.

He asks (with a lower, more begging tone and "please") for me to try it again.

I repeat myself (broken record technique) and he agrees to take it back to the shop.

The Negotiation - The Final Day

Coming back the next day, we met up at the dealership's second location (the one for finalizing agreements) and spoke.

He told me about how he loves that I'm working with my father and that he'd love to open up his own restaurant as something he could run with his own son and eventually pass down to him too.

He told me more about himself and his family.

Then, when it came time for me to check the handbrake again (which was still not bloody working), he completely changed personalities to "just take the car" mode, as if we didn't just have an open, rapport-building conversation.

When he switched so suddenly, it made me feel that he didn't actually care about me as a person or a customer and I lost a lot of respect for him. (Especially, since a broken handbrake isn't a debatable idea, it's a fact that can be seen with one's own eyes. Either it works or it doesn't.)

I negotiated with him, then with his mechanic (who was more warm-forwards) and, eventually, they gave me what I wanted.

I finally got the car with a fully working handbrake and fully washed and filled to a full tank of gas (though those last two seemed like professional courtesies that might be offered to everyone, so I can't take full credit on those).

Quote from B on November 30, 2022, 12:39 am

Thank you for sharing this, Ali!

The “You broke the handbrake” part had me laughing out loud! :D

I am reliving the scene:

Him: Oh it’s just a bit slow, but there’s a trick to it.

Him: Maybe with some oil…

Him: You broke it!

Him: Just take the car, pretty please with cherry on top?

That guy had all the potential to go into a pity play and turn the sale into something very similar to Monty Python’s “dirty fork” sketch!

Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on November 30, 2022, 3:32 am

Good to see this guy doing his best to confirm the stereotype of the used car salesman :).

Great review Ali, and good call on seeing the power moves.

One different approach I may have gone for is to seek to go meta on the game to surface the power moves and try to "dissolve them" in favor or something better.

A possible issue I see here is that his position was "salesman trying to get the most out of unaware customer". You calling the game turned that into "salesman trying to get most out of aware customer".

That's a HUGE step forward, so fantastic job on your side.

The issue with that is you're still in a "you VS me frame", and you can still expect him to keep on trying with the power moves.
And you'll lose out on a potentially more honest exchange (or future relationship if you ever wanna go back).

One way to do it:

Him: "He's (another sales rep's) selling your car!"
You: "hey man, look, I respect you doing your job and it's all fine with me. At the same time, I've been in sales and I know the various sales tricks and techniques. Really, and please, I prefer honest dealing, no games, no gimmicks. I buy here today, but I'll need to service this car, and I'll buy other cars in the future.
So what I'm saying is: please let's be honest and straight with ourselves

Of course you're not guaranteed that will immediately change things.

But you can call the next power move and do the same, and even "give him a last chance" to play straight, after which you can either ask to deal with another salesman, or change dealership, or simply accept that you'll have to play the game.

Plus, even if things improve, you may still not be able to trust him 100% -but any improvement is still a step forward-.

However, this at least gives you a chance, and chances are that it gets you closer to a better and more honest exchange (plus, with a lot more respect and consideration).