Former Community – We Moved
🆕 Coached community here, for posts & feedback public community here.
Feedbacks & clarifications
Thanks for explaining further Lucio.
I have often found elaborate ways to negotiate for emotional support throughout my life.
And I actually succeeded often to be honest because I could offer value in other ways.
But it's a distraction from my other goals. And an especially big distraction to my goal of becoming more detached through meditation practice.
Time for interrailing again. I like Eastern Europe for many reasons.
I'm bringing this up because sometimes our clarifications lead to deeper things after some mind wandering.
It would make things easier, prevent potential disappointment, and prevent the need for some clarifications.
But it's one of those things one can ask, but hardly command + it's difficult to follow through on.
So no, no "action item" on that one :).
I understand that you're giving me advice here.
But it also feels that you're asking me for having fewer clarifications.
I would like to bring this up to be sure.
Do you prefer having fewer clarifications?
It could be too many for now.
I am erring on the side of clarifying more for now.
Because I think we are building a solid foundation to work on future things in power dynamics.
If it's too much meaning that it doesn't really build the foundation, then I can bring things up in a more controlled manner.
Also, I feel that, thanks to you, this clarification session was very productive on my side.
But it's one of those things one can ask, but hardly command + it's difficult to follow through on.
People have different emotional rhythms.
I do talk about this openly to my friends and partners.
I wouldn't say I follow through, but the natural result (not conscious) is that I spend more time with people who match my emotional rhythm.
(Excluding some exceptions)
I strongly agree with #1 actually.
It's often an unspoken truth and axiom of good leadership/management/social cohesion/group effectiveness that too many people miss out on.
And if you noticed, I never miss a practical question from you, Ali, or some other guys who contribute.
But I more frequently skip questions from those who contribute less.
There are many ways of showing support.
I infer that you naturally show support through actions more than words (still do but a bit less).
For me, the balance may be slightly different (hence we are talking here).
I'm very happy that we had this discussion because now I understand better.
Hey Matthew,
Glad it was fruitful and positive, same on my side.
I don't believe much in present agreements to control future behavior.
I believe in letting people free to do whatever they want, and deal with the consequences and reality of things on a case by-case-case basis.
But if you ask, generally speaking, my preferences on clarifications and communication meta-discussions:
- Few and for the most important things only
- Brief and to the point
- Structured for ease and speed
- Direct
- Solution-oriented, not talk-oriented
- With beginning and a clear end
Thanks for sharing your preferences on clarifications.
I was asking from the point of view to understand your preferences.
I fully understand that you may want to change this according to the situation and with time.
Because we do seem to have a significant difference in the preferences.
So I think it's good to be aware of that even without setting any sort of expectations.
I also think preferences are sort of implicit expectations.
They communicate underlying desires.
If 2 people get along very well, it means that they get each other's implicit expectations of second nature without having to ask explicitly.
I do see being able to read people's preferences as being part of a social chameleon.
So all these preferences can be adapted smoothly and freely.
What I will do from here
- Read your preferences implicitly for smaller matters
- Bring up any bigger matters here
- Bring up recurrent patterns here
This is purely what I will do on my side.
I will also change this to suit the changing dynamics.
My View on this Feedbacks & Clarifications Thread
I feel that some of these clarifications when conducted efficiently are good for the relationship part of social dynamics.
On top of that, it's personal so we can have more depth compared to analysing YouTube videos or third-party interactions like me vs my friend.
Although that's my personal opinion.
In this thread of Feedbacks & Clarifications, there's an implicit expectation of making dialogue and reaching a resolution.
Maybe that's why it feels more time-consuming or "emotionally unsmooth".
Much easier to comment on some other thread as a third-party adviser with no strings attached.
So maybe we could dampen this implicit expectation.
Then, it would seem like people are expressing themselves at first.
Whether or not there will be behavioural changes or reaching a resolution would be an optional discussion down the line.
Quote from Lucio Buffalmano on January 20, 2022, 7:12 pmWelcome back!
No, this one is not a response to the power move :D, but:
Quote from Anon on January 20, 2022, 11:04 amI can only guess, but you have to keep in mind that if Lucio comes in, the topic is often times seen as "closed", because it is kind of accepted as the solution (and of course there are legit reasons for that). And I assume Lucio doesn't like to be tasked either 😉
So it's fortunate, because there is a chance we wouldn't have had all the perspectives from you guys.
LOOOL, came back in style!
Man where have you been, I wrote like a year ago:
Good to see you around, and I take it as a sign things are good/better.
At the time I was going through a lot and didn't really know how to deal with it and half-consciously isolated myself as much as possible.
Now I'm more aware that from the perspective of this forum, I simply disappeared after I posted that something bad has happened. I want to apologize, because I should have handled this differently. Even in harsh times, one should not cause worry to others when it can be avoided, that doesn't do any good.
Two contributing factors may have been that I sometimes have difficulties judging how far or close someone is to me, especially online, and that I was used to the anonymity of reddit, where it likely wouldn't happen that someone else would reach out in similiar circumstances.
Unfortunately I havent received your email, the account wasn't in use anymore.
But thank you very much for reaching out to me in this situation!
I saw and see you as a very exceptional character - someone who truly stands out even in an environment of high achievers, so it really means a lot to me!
Now I've updated my tpm-accound with a contactable email - in case anything (positive!) should come up that could make use of this.
Anyway, I'm at a good place now and hope things are good for you as well.
I'm happy to be here again - on the very head of the spear of social- and power dynamics. I missed it a lot.
Thank you for the update mate, very kind of you!
And just to be sure, all good, I never thought you might have done anything "socially sub-optimal" or "could have let us know" or anything like that.
Just a set of fortuitous circumstances about the last message, the timing, and the tecchie email -I remember smiling at your tech-savviness :)-.
That being said, the most important part is:
Great to hear all is well, and great to reading from you again!
I've noticed that you do something really well.
An example is in this reply.
I provided a long-ish answer, and in there, there was some advice that does not apply to you, and some advice on things you were already doing.
Now what people do in those cases is to:
- Add details of why an answer does NOT apply to them
- Defend and say they're already doing what was suggested
- Devalue the advice to defend and say why it won't work for them
An extreme case of this approach was Jack who (pre-emptively) devalued and shot down most advice coming his way.
But beyond extremes, we all tend to do it.
Result?
Anyone who sought to provide value feels devalued.
Like they're not being rewarded for the effort, not appreciated for the parts that were useful, and even publicly disempowered for being framed as "not providing helpful advice".
Solution?
The Bel Approach #1: Pick Whatever Was Helpful and Build Them Up
Look instead how Bell approaches:
He LOOKS for what was helpful so that he can give me value on that.
Bel zeroes in, quotes, and thread expand on what was useful.
That gives me a lot of credit and makes me feel great about giving advice -which increases the odds of me giving more in the future-.
If Bel allows me to say this, I've noticed once that he edited one reply to do just that: focus more on the positives of what was good, and downplay what wasn't.
Great approach.
The Bel Approach #2: Power Protect & Build Bridges On "Non-Applicable Advice"
Because I wasn't there, my advice was based on a wrong interpretation and did not apply.
That is extremely common when giving advice based on a few lines of text rather than, say, being there in person.
However, Bel:
- Never directly says that the dynamics were different and I had the wrong assumption, he just adds the new info
- Does not thread expand on "why the advice does not apply", for example describing why his situation was different
Doing any of the above also goes off-topic and can start a negative competitive dynamic "what I say was valuable VS no it wasn't".
Instead, he looks for reasons on why the advice might still apply:
Bel: but I don't think people nearby heard us
That sub-communicates "you might have gotten the full dynamics wrong, but somehow your interpretation still holds and applies".
The Bel Approach #3: Build Bridges When Receiving Advice on What You're Doing Already
This is where mindsets and antifragile ego help the most.
When someone advises us to do something we already know of, or are already doing, we often think:
He advices on something I already do, so I must push back on it to show that I'm more advanced and "better" than he thinks
And so we push back saying something like:
- I know that
- I'm doing that
- That's not helpful because...
Or worse by belittling the advice with "everyone knows that" or "it's obvious".
The issue with that is that the receiver feels like he tried to help, and he's being spurned.
In the old days, it's like having your help thrown back at you in a "non needed, return to sender" wrap.
Instead, this is what Bel does:
Bel: I agree with...
That aligns with the advice-giver and sub-communicates that "the advice is helpful, and that's why I agree / I'm already doing".
Edit:
"I agree" is particularly good because it both protects your power, while building up and aligning with the advice giver.
ADDENDUMS:
The Bel Approach #4: Tell Your Coach WHY His Proposed SolutionWorks, Is Awesome, & You Love It
Says Bel in this post:
Thank you very much Lucio, your advice is extremely helpful for the following reasons, in which it differs from what I used to do previously. These will undoubtedly make a significant difference:
And then he goes to list how my solution is better than anything he did before.
Does that make me want to advice Bel in the future?
You bet!
And he ends saying:
So I will definitely adopt the approach quoted above
The Bel Approach #5: Update Your Coach How You Implemented His Solution & How Great it Worked
In this post, says Bel:
Guys, roll of drums.
I received full payment!
(...)
Thank you Lucio, your help was invaluable in reaching this outcome.
Thanks Lucio!
When you give me (or anyone else) advice or perspective that confirms what I am doing, and/or that may be not directly applicable to my/our situation, I find it still extremely useful, and am thankful to you for several reasons:
1. since what I do is (mostly) not consciously planned, and I may be wrong in what I do, getting confirmation that I am doing something right
- confirms I am on the right track;
- allows me, on the one hand, to expand/replicate consciously my effective behaviors from specific areas to other areas of my life;
- and on the other hand, allows me to minimize focusing on things that are already on the right track and concentrate on what I need to improve;
2. while it is true that the situation you assume in writing may be somewhat different than what I am going through, I understand that
- when you expand your answer by going through possible variations of the situation, or deal with tangential or related points I did not ask about, you provide me with more value, because you allow me to better understand the nuances of your advice and its underlying logic, and in doing that you allow me to better replicate it in different situations;
- I may (and likely will) encounter the situation you assumed in the future, and your advice helps me very much to prepare for that possibility;
- you allow me to see things that may be impacting the problem that I wasn't even able to consider as causes of the problem (which may be the reason why I may have not asked about them, thus missing the real "culprit" in my behavior);
- enlarging the answer to encompass other possible situations is valuable not only for my future self, but for all other readers who may find themselves in that situation (and I may well be one of the "other readers" when you answer someone else!).
So thank you for the time and dedication you give when you deal with my/our questions/issues.
This is awesome! Learning refined ways to receive feedback and empower those willing to help is definitely something I need to learn.
Thank you for the update, Bel, it makes sense.
And thank you for the note Mist, it's very helpful to know what's helpful.
